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United Earth in the Star Trek universe

Not even close to the truth. Americans recycle slightly over a third of our trash, and likely could inch that percentage up a bit, but the idea that our garbage could supply our needs now is in error
I shouldn't have put "now" in there. I meant in a theoretical future like Star Trek, where anything they use is recycled by replicator technology instead of being disposed of like we do in the here and now. Does that make it more clear? I thought that was clear what I meant when I first wrote it.

Honestly, it seems to me that's what Trek replicators do, you have a meal, you don't waste water washing the dishes, you simply put the the dirty dishes and any uneaten food back in the replicator where it's recycled back into energy stores.

And their uniforms, don't they put dirty, sweaty uniforms back into something called the refresher, (which I think is still replicator technology), where the dirt is taken out and the uniform is rematerialized back into a clean one.
 
The TNG Tech Manual says the ship recycles at 82%, the replicator might be manufacturing things with recycling in mind, that's why it's capable of such a high recycling percentage.

Also might be the reason the food tastes "off."
you simply put the the dirty dishes and any uneaten food back in the replicator where it's recycled back into energy stores
More likely converted back into basic substances (not "energy"). I like the idea that things such as plates, glasses, flatware are stripped of organic materials and simply stored for reuse.

Instead of breaking them down and recreating them each time.
 
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I seem to recall that was the general idea of the replicator-like food processor in Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise.
 
The quoted dialog never mentions San Fransisco, if Paris can go to different locations for portions of his training why not Picard?

The only thing we know Picard did in San Fransisco was interact with one of the grounds keepers.
However, if we go back to when Boothby was first mentioned in Final Mission:
PICARD: There's so much I wanted to tell you. The Academy, there's someone, someone who meant a great deal to me. He's been there forever. Someone you must get to know. His name is Boothby. Now, you tell him that you and I were friends. Now, when I was there, he helped me. Listen to him.
Presumably when Picard says "when I was there" he means when he attended the Academy. We know Boothby works at San Francisco, and in this quote Picard indicates Boothby's been there "forever." Also, the scenes between Picard and Boothby make it in The First Duty make it very clear they knew each other in Picard's Academy days, meaning Picard attended the Academy in San Francisco.
Ok, so Tarses spent some of his time - prior to joining the Enterprise at San Francisco - the phrasing suggests to me that it was prior to deciding to go enlisted (perhaps he was visiting relatives) but another possible explanation is that at least some his medical classes (probably the pharmacology ones) were conducted at Starfleet Medical in San Francisco and the STSA is the Basic Training Facility (for the Sol System) only.
It's a lot simpler to assume he did his training in San Francisco, which was undoubtedly the intent when The Drumhead was written.
 
... meaning Picard attended the Academy in San Francisco
Oh I have no problem with Picard obtaining at least some of his training there.

If there is a academy facility in France, and Picard being the Francophile that he is, and if he had a option in the matter (like Paris and part of his training), I could easily see Picard doing as much of his training in France as possible.
 
If there is a academy facility in France, and Picard being the Francophile that he is, and if he had a option in the matter (like Paris and part of his training), I could easily see Picard doing as much of his training in France as possible.
Except Picard was trying to get away from home and family, so if anything he'd want to spend as little time in France as possible. It's possible he didn't even go back for holidays and summer vacations.
 
This is a fun post.

Yeah!

1. Personal rain deflectors. That is, when activated, you wouldn't get wet when outside on a rainy day.

That's basically what the TAS life support belts amount to...

2. Air conditioned and heated clothing, used for extended time outdoors.

This might be what the TAS life support belts have as a side benefit. There's a way for the landing party in "Spock's Brain" to make themselves comfortable in freezing cold without wearing mittens or headgear, so the clothing is likely to "extend" somehow to create the necessary protection. Weak air-retaining forcefields would be as good an approach as any. But again not too good, as they wouldn't help against the lethal cold of "Enemy Within"!

Any replicator capable of generating whatever we need, would also recycle (with 100% efficiency) all trash. Trek's replicators do this, don't they?

We know it's customary to put dishes back into the replicator after a meal. We don't know if this amounts to any sort of "recycling", though. Having the replicator make the dishes disappear might mean a net consumption of energy and raw materials - but we know the future folks no longer mind energy consumption, or else they wouldn't use replicators in the first place for making their cups of coffee.

Hmm...

1. Medical advances make reproduction wholly controllable, from timing to numbers to characteristics. Possibilities for abuse are endless.
2. Said advances also mean people can relatively easily change their faces instead of just applying makeup. No wonder Kirk put no weight on the physical evidence on whether Anton Karidian was Kodos the Executioner or not!
3. The general onslaught of all these "endless possibilities" technologies generates a general backlash of ultraconservatism where the 1960s US is held as the highest ideal.

Timo Saloniemi
 
, would imagine that no woman would have to be physically pregnant for nine months, unless she chose to do so. They would have artificial incubators available for those who couldn't carry a child, or preferred not to for whatever reason. Not unlike a Borg maturation chamber, which, after all, had to have been assimilated from some species.
 
I doubt that there is such a thing as "Federation rights."

Each species / each planet would have their own legal code that would remain in place after they obtain membership in the Federation.

Basically the only universal concept of "Federation rights" that must be adhered to by all member worlds is: no caste based discrimination. Beyond that, each world is left to its own devices as far as legal codes go.

The idea that there is no such thing as a set of rights enumerated for all people in the Federation is directly contradicted by the episodes "The Perfect Mate," "The Drumhead," and "Author, Author." We know from "The Drumhead" that the Federation Constitution contains provisions enumerating certain rights as "Guarantees," and that the Seventh Guarantee protects people from self-incrimination during legal proceedings; we know from "Author, Author" that the Twelfth Guarantee protects the rights of artists and defines what constitutes an artist; and we know from "The Perfect Mate" that the Guarantees of the Federation Constitution apply to all people in Federation territory, including aboard Federation vessels, whether or not they are Federation citizens.

In other words -- the Constitution of the United Federation of Planets has its own version of a bill of rights, and that's the Guarantees.

I wonder how long that wasn't a entry restriction? Was it in place in say Kirk's time?

I mean the restriction probably didn't come out of no-where. And the members that joined the Federation with castes in place, did they keep them (grandfathered in), or would it be a matter of lose the castes or lose their membership.I don't think that's a requirement.

Well, Ardana was a Federation Member State in season three of TOS, and it had caste-based discrimination. But Kirk and company were very surprised to find this out -- which suggests to me that the prohibition against caste-based discrimination was already in place and they were surprised to see Ardanan society violating it. (I have a hard time believing the UFP of TOS is less progressive about caste-based discrimination than the frickin' 20th Century United States.)

I know the episode that supposedly comes from and I don't think that (single global government) is what Picard meant.

I think he meant unity in a social and cultural sense.

No, "Attached" is pretty clear: there has to be a global government.

Money camp (sounds like a fun place).

Probably would be assistance for those who were mentally and physically incapable of working.

Homeless shelters and camps for those who simply refused to get off their asses.

But why? In a world where technology has created such abundant wealth that it is not longer necessary for the overwhelming majority of people to be productive, what is the purpose of coercing people into productivity?

And who defines "work" in this context? Is somebody who spends years and years working on a novel not "working?"

The idea that everyone needs to work is an idea rooted in the economics of scarcity -- if resources are scarce, everyone who is capable has a moral obligation to be productive in some manner for the benefit of everyone else. But if the economics of the future are in a state of abundance or near-abundance -- that is, if the cost of maintaining what we would today consider a "middle-class" standard of living for billions of people is so low as to be virtually free on a per person basis? Then there cannot be a moral obligation to be productive -- and any legal system that tries to coerce productivity cannot be legally valid either.

You are, in other words, describing a fundamental violation of liberty.

Maybe there would be homeless planets where they would sent after being rounded up.

Sounds like a Sanctuary District writ large.

I mean, seriously. "Rounded up?" Are you listening to yourself? The Federation engaging in "where are your papers?" tyranny? Planetary concentration camps? What is this Gestapo bullshit?

Any replicator capable of generating whatever we need, would also recycle (with 100% efficiency) all trash. Trek's replicators do this, don't they?

As I understand things (and somebody, please tell me if I'm wrong), it is physically impossible for them to recycle with 100% efficiency because the second law of thermodynamics means that some energy is always lost when energy transformed from one state to another.
 
1. Genetic engineering at birth is legal under certain conditions, humans have slowed down the aging process. How else do 22nd - 24th century humans live way pass 100, McCoy is 130 plus in STNG and walking as upright as a 70 year old.
2. If you live under pioneering conditions on a Human colony you can choose what gender your second baby is going to be.
3. Due to ease of migration, humans of mixed heritage will be a significant minority. E.g a quarter of the population
4. The existence of Gillionaires (TAS assumed humans will still be mega rich E.G the Carter character)
 
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Hmm. Aging doesn't appear to have been slowed down: people in Trek get old quickly, sometimes a bit quicker than the actors, sometimes a bit slower (Picard was ten years older than he, that is, Stewart, looked, but that's about it). They just don't die as soon as they would today. But when they're really old, they certainly look the part.

Ease of migration would no doubt result in significant minorities. Indeed, it might be the only thing that could. Without migration into racially pure enclaves of some sort, the population would probably become 100% mixed heritage and zero minorities soon enough, what with the massive advances in transportation evident in Trek. Think of what the bicycle did to inter-village cross-breeding already!

Except it doesn't happen by the 24th century yet - say, Ben Sisko is still a very dark shade of brown (although not quite the same shade as his dad), and marries a woman with only slightly lighter skin after having borne a son with a woman of his own color. Although it appears Sisko is a bit of a closet racist, or at least holosuite racist, carrying weird grudges across centuries, and perhaps narrowing his options that way. Then again, Ben Sisko lives only about half a dozen generations after transporters might first have become commonplace as a mode of Earth civilian transport; there's still time for change.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Although it appears Sisko is a bit of a closet racist, or at least holosuite racist, carrying weird grudges across centuries, and perhaps narrowing his options that way. Then again, Ben Sisko lives only about half a dozen generations after transporters might first have become commonplace as a mode of Earth civilian transport; there's still time for change.

I don't think it's at all racist to remember terrible things that happened to one's ancestors, and be angry about it. That's just historical awareness. It's not like he's then going on to take it out on people in his own era.
 
To be fair to Sisko he objected to a holosuite programme based on an earth era where folks like him and Kassidy were not allowed entrance or had to use the back door. However the programmer removed those elements. If the programme was based on the US antebellum era I believe even Kassidy and Bashir would have told Felix to sling his hook.
Plus 6 generations is a long time, almost 200 years, probably more like 100 years if used by civilians and if we can experience change in our life time so quickly imagine in the 24th century.
But we know the real life reason for why actors, especially brown ones, are still racially paired on ST. Perhaps ST Discovery will break that taboo.
 
Well, Ardana was a Federation Member State in season three of TOS, and it had caste-based discrimination. But Kirk and company were very surprised to find this out -- which suggests to me that the prohibition against caste-based discrimination was already in place and they were surprised to see Ardanan society violating it. (I have a hard time believing the UFP of TOS is less progressive about caste-based discrimination than the frickin' 20th Century United States.)

I don't remember off hand. Was Ardana legitimately a caste system or was it more like Jim Crow laws - democracy in name only or on paper but not in reality?


I don't think it's at all racist to remember terrible things that happened to one's ancestors, and be angry about it. That's just historical awareness. It's not like he's then going on to take it out on people in his own era.

But how long is too long to hang on to that anger? 400 years from now should someone still be angered that the Romans oppressed his or her ancestors from over 2,000 years previous? At what point do you just let it go?
 
Ask any of a dozen cultures on this planets that harbor anger towards another culture to a set of wrongs that were centuries or even millennia ago. Though in our world, these angers tend to flare up again and again to keep the anger in place. France and England being one. Doesn't help if there are generational reminders.
 
Was Ardana legitimately a caste system or was it more like Jim Crow laws - democracy in name only or on paper but not in reality?

That's an interesting one all right. In his meditative voiceover, Spock reveals he is aware of the class distinctions, and declares them unwise but not illegal. Since this is Spock, we don't learn whether he is surprised by his recent discovery of the class injustice, or just commenting on something he has known for ages.

Soon thereafter, when Droxine and Vanna argue, Kirk appears surprised that the Troglytes don't get to share in the benefits of the society they help support. Spock again mostly just neutrally comments, but then declares "unthinkable" the physical banishment of the Troglytes to the harsh surface.

So we have evidence that the degree of separation between the castes is appalling to our heroes, but none that its very existence would be. And in the end, Kirk is both powerless at and disinterested in changing the state of affairs, and his superiors don't appear to expect that he do something about it, either. To the contrary, Plasus argues his policies and practices enjoy the protection of UFP law that grants him autonomy on such matters. (Or at least immunity against a Starfleet officer trying to interfere, although if a non-Starfleet authority had broader powers, Plasus' attitude would make little sense because surely Kirk would go complain to such an authority to effect the change then.)

Kirk, as usual, resorts to crime and violence to get what he wants. But that's zenite, not democracy. He ultimately washes his hands of the whole affair, and status quo is retained. Were the vile practices on the planet somehow in excess of the laws that the UFP upholds, this would be an unlikely outcome. Were the laws presented to the UFP different from the actual laws in force on Ardana, doubly so. But how could the laws be "democracy on paper" if they aren't in conflict with what takes place? It looks as if the UFP knows of and condones what is happening, despite some excesses it wasn't aware of.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Ease of migration would no doubt result in significant minorities. Indeed, it might be the only thing that could. Without migration into racially pure enclaves of some sort, the population would probably become 100% mixed heritage and zero minorities soon enough, what with the massive advances in transportation evident in Trek.

Bear in mind that there is no such thing as "racially pure."

Except it doesn't happen by the 24th century yet - say, Ben Sisko is still a very dark shade of brown (although not quite the same shade as his dad), and marries a woman with only slightly lighter skin after having borne a son with a woman of his own color.

I think a dedication to multiculturalism and egalitarianism means recognizing both the right of individuals to marry and raise families with people from outside of their cultures, and the right of minority cultures to continue to exist in the forms that are meaningful to them.

Although it appears Sisko is a bit of a closet racist, or at least holosuite racist, carrying weird grudges across centuries, and perhaps narrowing his options that way.

Pure nonsense. Sisko isn't holding grudges or in any way racist. He is objecting to false narratives that distort history to make it seem as though racist oppression did not exist in the past. There's nothing wrong with that -- indeed, maintaining awareness of historical acts of brutality, oppression, or even outright genocide are vital tools in preventing racism and racist oppression.

The worst thing you can accuse Sisko of in "Bada-Bing, Bada-Bang" is being unwilling to indulge in historical fantasy.

I don't remember off hand. Was Ardana legitimately a caste system or was it more like Jim Crow laws - democracy in name only or on paper but not in reality?

I got the impression that it was the latter -- liberal democracy in name but not in substance, with Kirk and company not realizing this.

That does raise the question of why the Federation would allow Ardana in if they hadn't done enough study of their society to know this. My theory is that the Federation Council and President were actually violating Federation law by admitting Ardana, perhaps doing so as a concession to the Ardanian power elite so that the UFP would have a territorial toe-hold to project power towards interstellar rivals from the Ardanian system. Kirk certainly seemed to be under the impression that the Federation civil service that would arrive on Ardana after his reports would be taking action to correct the Ardanian elite's oppressions against their workers.

Little bit of non-canonical speculation: The Department of Temporal Investigations novel Forgotten History features a reference to Federation President Lorne McLaren being newly elected in 2369 (shortly before "The Cloud Minders") partially on the basis of a mandate to "clean up" after the corruption of the Kenneth Wescott administration (the Federation President featured in the Errand of Fury novels set before and immediately after "Errand of Mercy" from season one). Perhaps the Wescott administration decided it wanted the territorial beachhead Ardana's admission would give the Federation, and so pressured whatever parts of the Federation civil service or committees of the Federation Council are responsible for evaluating applicants for Membership into falsely certifying that Ardana complied with Federation law so they could puss its admission through the Council. That would fit the idea that the McLaren administration's narrative of Wescott being corrupt, and could have come to light after Kirk exposed conditions on Ardana, giving McLaren a reason to pressure Ardana to either reform or be expelled.

But how long is too long to hang on to that anger? 400 years from now should someone still be angered that the Romans oppressed his or her ancestors from over 2,000 years previous?

Well, the Romans' decision to expel the Jewish people from their ancestral homeland directly led to over 2,000 years of constant persecution and oppression which continues to this day. The Europeans' decision to inflict massive-scaled chattel slavery on Africans for their New World colonies 400 years ago led to systems of brutality and oppression that continue to this day (as victims of police brutality can attest). So I'd say the question is not, "How long do you stay mad?," it's, "Has the oppression stopped?"

In Star Trek's 24th Century, it has. Sisko does not hate white people. He is proud of his heritage and views his culture and other cultures as equals. His anger in "Bada-Bing, Bada-Bang" is not some burning anger over contemporary suffering. There's no particular evidence the oppression of African Americans centuries in the past bothers him any more than the oppression of Frenchmen by invading Englishmen during the era of King Henry V bothers most French people on a day-to-day basis.

Again, Sisko is angry in "Bada-Bing, Bada-Bang" about a false historical narrative that denies the reality of human suffering. Kassidy's counter-argument is that it is universally understood to be historical fantasy, and that there is a role for fantasies about how histories could have been better. They're both legitimate points of view; the worst thing you can say about Sisko is that he is over-zealous in wanting to make sure that the historical reality of oppression is not distorted. But that's an understandable concern. If preserving the historical record of oppression were not an important step in fighting racist oppression, nobody would try to deny the Holocaust.
 
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