Uniform Code Not So Uniform

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Bry_Sinclair, Feb 8, 2021.

  1. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Riker is reacting to his perception of Ro, based on reading what she did on Garon II that led to the deaths of eight crewmembers. Maybe he was being cultural insensitive with Ro (although, I contend, he probably didn't know of the significance of the earring, and assumed it was just a personal adornment from a disobedient formerly court-martialed officer).
     
  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    On a semi-related note, the episode shows the Federation in general to be really ignorant of Bajoran ways, to the point it's said many Bajorans actually allow people to refer to them by their last names as though that were their family names as a means to fitting in better. Which never made sense to me. There are cultures on Earth which place the family name first, among them the Chinese, one of Earth's largest cultures. Yet Bajorans place their family names first and that's suddenly some weird alien thing which many of them abandon to fit in with the Federation?

    TNG writers really didn't think through their definition of "alien" at times.
     
  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    The full exchange:
     
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  4. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    "My ship. My rules. End of discussion."
     
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  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    It wasn't Riker's ship. ;)
     
  6. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oops. My bad.

    *deleted*
     
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  7. Court_Vince

    Court_Vince Commander Red Shirt

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    Just rewatched Riker's and Ro's exchange in Ensign Ro, And I didnt see any attitude on the part of Ro. If anything it felt more like Riker was (for lack of a less harsh word) abusing his position as CO just to be a jerk to her.
     
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  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can get where Ro is coming from, people frequently get both my name and the name of where I come from wrong and so there are times I find myself getting snappy about it, especially if it happens over and over again.

    How many times has Riker and the E-D crew disobeyed the rules and gotten away with it?
     
  9. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Unlikely. There are laws and regulations that specify what a superior can require of a subordinate, including uniform regulations. Whether Ro was within the regulations or not, I have no way of knowing, but armed forces today have specific regulations and policies regarding religious or culturally significant items of wear. The idea that Starfleet would not have something like that, and leave gray areas open to interpretation by different officers, is not really believable to me.

    Some apparent leeway in the uniform regulations goes back to TOS, when Scotty wore a kilt with his dress uniform.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder if cultural variation requires approval by a higher authority. Given the relative inexperience of Riker and Picard with Bajorans it may simply be such a variant had not made it before a Uniform Code review board.

    I would think that discretion would be allowed for senior officers as to whether or not to allow such things without being concerned about the specific regulation, i.e. recognizing that it is culturally significant, even if unrecognized by regulation.
     
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  11. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    ^I would expect that an organization drawing on such diversity would have a well-established system for such things, and that the relevant regulations would be updated smoothly as part of the process that allowed Bajorans to serve.
     
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  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I would expect Starfleet to have been security than it does too. But, given Picard's ignorance of Bajoran naming conventions I am leaning in to the idea that such regulations had not been updated beyond allowing for service in Starfleet.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    And Spock sporting the IDIC for that one episode.
     
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  14. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Riker (my take) didn't know it was a piece of religious symbolism, and thought it was just a fashion accessory.
     
  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Makes sense. I don't think he or Picard were fully up to date on Bajorans. To them, Ro was just someone who screwed up.
     
  16. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Riker already had preconceived notions about Ro before she beamed aboard, based on her record. That's why he snapped at her.

    I think it's also possible that Riker had no idea that the earring was an item of cultural/religious significance, and he assumed it was just a fashion statement. Picard and Riker's unfamiliarity with Bajoran naming conventions reflects a general ignorance of Bajoran culture on the part of Starfleet... which kinda makes sense, since Bajor was still under Cardassia's colonialist thumb within the domain of the Cardassian Union/Empire/whatever it's called. Bajor was not a member of the Federation, and certainly would not have been a well-known player on the galactic scene.

    Look at the real-life history of colonialism, and how colonized peoples struggled to get the outside world to even acknowledge their existence. So it was probably rare for Starfleet people to have any dealings with Bajorans. Picard's familiarity with the Bajorans was a footnote-level recollection of reading about their ancient civilization in grade school, which doesn't necessarily have a whole lot to do with their plight in the "here and now" at the time of the episode.

    Of course it's rather daft to assume that all alien civilizations would follow the same naming conventions as Earth's western European cultural sphere. There are plenty of cultures right here on Earth that put the surname and/or other designators before the given name!

    Kor
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And plenty that remain indecisive on that one - Japan has recently rejoined the club, say.

    In practical terms, Ro's earring is a potential hazard, a vulnerability that may snag onto something like no turban or sash ever would. Possibly people who insist on wearing religious symbols are told in no uncertain terms to choose another type - a holographic imitation if nothing else will suffice.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    That wasn't Riker speaking there. :D But in regards to Riker, I guess it would depend on how much latitude Picard gave him. Ideally, the XO deals with ship and crew matters, allowing the Captain to focus squarely on the ship's mission and related issues. If Picard trusted Riker enough to give him a free hand (if not a blank check) in handling the crew, then Riker's attitude towards Ro could really just be a case of Riker not being quite the perfect, non-judgmental, always fair 24th-Century Human.
    :eek:
     
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  19. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Picard and Riker shoud've been sent for some retraining after that. Imagine if someone demanded you remove a headdress or whatever today.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    "Jean-Luc and Will, please report to HR"
     
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