Unification
- Thread starter dinwitty
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Heroes and villains being next-door neighbors doesn't appear conceptually problematic. It's the proximity that breeds hatred. And the hatred that originally resulted in the proximity, with Romulans leaving Vulcan in a huff but apparently not getting very far.
We do hear of Vulcan being defended: there are "Vulcan defense vessels" involved. We don't learn if those are generic Starfleet ships or something else, but that doesn't matter much. The E-D was not the only thing standing in the way of the invasion - rather, the fact that she stood in the way of the invasion made the Romulans realize that the invasion had failed already. (If it ever was their intention, that is.)
But yes, nothing much of interest in Part 2. Which is sort of fitting: Spock's efforts came to naught rather than coming to grief, which speaks well for the hero character who certainly wouldn't have wanted a giant space battle at the climax.
Timo Saloniemi
We do hear of Vulcan being defended: there are "Vulcan defense vessels" involved. We don't learn if those are generic Starfleet ships or something else, but that doesn't matter much. The E-D was not the only thing standing in the way of the invasion - rather, the fact that she stood in the way of the invasion made the Romulans realize that the invasion had failed already. (If it ever was their intention, that is.)
But yes, nothing much of interest in Part 2. Which is sort of fitting: Spock's efforts came to naught rather than coming to grief, which speaks well for the hero character who certainly wouldn't have wanted a giant space battle at the climax.
Timo Saloniemi
Makes a mockery of the concept that space is sooooo vast, yet our mortal enemy is just a few invasion hours away?
How so? In the US Civil War, a vast continent fought, sometimes across wastelands presenting immense logistical problems. The enemies nevertheless had their capitals about a hundred miles apart!
Romulans are an "old" enemy, thus it makes sense for them to be closer than "new" enemies. And for folks really far away not to be enemies quite yet.
Timo Saloniemi
Romulans are an "old" enemy, thus it makes sense for them to be closer than "new" enemies. And for folks really far away not to be enemies quite yet.
Timo Saloniemi
Then the neutral zone must be very narrow
That's an old chestnut all right. Perhaps the thickness isn't uniform? In TNG "The Enemy", it appears that a modern Romulan Warbird in a hurry goes from the Romulan side of the Zone to the UFP side in five hours. Or at least that's what Tomalak claims - but he could be lying for tactical purposes, or dragging his feet for tactical purposes. In any case, it's not at odds with "Unification".
There's conflicting data on how far the UFP side of the RNZ is from, say, Earth. But the RNZ could be vast yet thin, without contradiction. And space beyond Vulcan as viewed from Earth might be where Archer in ENT would not be inclined to travel, meaning he would never realize how close the Romulans were.
Timo Saloniemi
There's conflicting data on how far the UFP side of the RNZ is from, say, Earth. But the RNZ could be vast yet thin, without contradiction. And space beyond Vulcan as viewed from Earth might be where Archer in ENT would not be inclined to travel, meaning he would never realize how close the Romulans were.
Timo Saloniemi
Earth and allies were able to engage in warfare in the middle of the 22nd century with the Romulan Empire, with the warp speeds of the time.
So the Founders of the Federation can't be all that far from the Empire.
How much speed do you need? I mean, it would be nice if we were able to tell, so we could get at least some ballpark figures. But there's lots of leeway there. Say, Archer went some 130 ly out, and then returned to Earth in "The Expanse" between March 21st (the previous ep) and April 24th (arrival date). Might fighting across a gulf of one month be viable? Well, it didn't stop the Thirty Years War or the like...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
This. And adding to the warp speed notation, that probably has a lot to do with the thickness of the Neutral Zone. How long did it take to approach and cross in the 22nd Century? If we assume the war was fought with the NX (or perhaps one class more advanced), that puts the top speed of the best ships at Warp 5 or 6 on the TOS scale.
Using the Warp Speed Calculator, a TNG-era ship traveling at Warp 9 -- the top speed of a D'deridex class warbird like Tamalok commanded (according to Memory Alpha) in The Defector -- could cross one light year in approximately 5 hours. So if we suppose that to be the Neutral Zone's thickness, then it would take more than 40 hours at Warp 6 on the old scale.
Perhaps the powers that be at the time felt that was sufficient from an advanced warning perspective; especially given the number of ships each side had and the amount of space between the Neutral Zone and any probable targets.
I wouldn't get too bound up in relative warspeed here. Trek isn't very good at bedding in exacting scales and arriving at precise distances. We can say with strong confidence however that earth and Vulcan rest near the Romulan NZ.
But I'm still not particularly convinced about how well Vulcan and earth are defended. A Galaxy class ship -- the top ship during TNG's run -- can't quite match a single Warbird -- Vulcan's own fleet is hardly going to be better? Maybe they have planet-side batteries that are more formidable. That could be something. But I still think you'd want a visible home fleet to deter any attempt at invasion from a fleet of WBs.
But I'm still not particularly convinced about how well Vulcan and earth are defended. A Galaxy class ship -- the top ship during TNG's run -- can't quite match a single Warbird -- Vulcan's own fleet is hardly going to be better? Maybe they have planet-side batteries that are more formidable. That could be something. But I still think you'd want a visible home fleet to deter any attempt at invasion from a fleet of WBs.
From the looks of it in DS9, the oft-mentioned but seldom seen planetary defenses are decisive in starship fights. What the Dominion had at Chin'toka may have been a bit better than average, but it was not technologically demanding or anything. If we assume all planets of worth have that type of defense, then it becomes understandable how the Romulans dismiss two dozen ships as a warfleet even when a single starship can utterly devastate an undefended planet.
Fixed defenses seem to trump ships in general. The Defiant basically never defended DS9 - the station defended the ship...
Visible fleets as a deterrence aren't likely to work too well against invisible fleets anyway. If the Romulans only decloak when within firing range of Vulcan, then a starship defense is functionally no different from a defense based on orbiting fortresses, as the starships have to wait in orbit for the cloaked fleet just like any bunch of immobile satellites.
Timo Saloniemi
Fixed defenses seem to trump ships in general. The Defiant basically never defended DS9 - the station defended the ship...
Visible fleets as a deterrence aren't likely to work too well against invisible fleets anyway. If the Romulans only decloak when within firing range of Vulcan, then a starship defense is functionally no different from a defense based on orbiting fortresses, as the starships have to wait in orbit for the cloaked fleet just like any bunch of immobile satellites.
Timo Saloniemi
Well, you've got the concept of the fleet-in-being. The idea that a fleet simply by being present exerts a controlling effect on the adversary. And a single Warbird maybe able to evade detection but it's unlikely that fleets moving en-mass have the same capacity. Even the Warbird Troi was on needed codes to do what it was doing. It was probably why we only see one WB in Unification. They needed to stay absolutely invisible then once troops were embedded and the element of surprise no longer needed, the main invasion fleet would then move in and implement the annexation.
But I think a big thing at play here is the reality of the Klingon/Federation alliance. That's probably the major gravitational force that has maintained Romulan insularity. The idea that if the Romulans did invade the Federation or become too committed to border brawls, the Klingons, always spoiling for a fight would harass the Romulan rear.
That equation changed with the Klingon Civil War. Despite being unmasked at the 11th hour and failing to effect a pro-Romulan coup in totality, the Civil War did decimate the Klingon interior. So Sela antics maybe judged as partially successful in that they diminished a key rival, allowing the Romulans a window to entertain more ambitious projects against the Federation knowing the Klingons are unlikely to be factor.
But I think a big thing at play here is the reality of the Klingon/Federation alliance. That's probably the major gravitational force that has maintained Romulan insularity. The idea that if the Romulans did invade the Federation or become too committed to border brawls, the Klingons, always spoiling for a fight would harass the Romulan rear.
That equation changed with the Klingon Civil War. Despite being unmasked at the 11th hour and failing to effect a pro-Romulan coup in totality, the Civil War did decimate the Klingon interior. So Sela antics maybe judged as partially successful in that they diminished a key rival, allowing the Romulans a window to entertain more ambitious projects against the Federation knowing the Klingons are unlikely to be factor.
The "fleet in being" concept requires the fleet to be untouchable (in other words, inactive, hiding inside a secure port). The Romulan cloak would alter that, just like the introduction of long range submarines made Scapa Flow insufficient protection for the Royal Navy in WWII... Vulcan might do well to base its retaliatory fleet far away, in the Andorian system, say!
The RNZ leaks like a sieve even after the introduction of the tachyon tripwire. This doesn't mean the Romulans would have complete freedom of operations, though: in "Face of the Enemy", Troi's Warbird penetrates the actual Zone with ease, but is soon caught when moving deeper into UFP territory. No doubt sailing in company of very visible and very "noisy" old Vulcan ships on supposedly legitimate business would help a big invasion fleet of Warbirds fare better!
Another way to view "Unification" would be as a "glorious failure" - an approach successfully promoted by the likes of North Korea. In it, audacious missions of infiltration or destruction are launched with essentially zero chance of success and with no tangible value even if success by some miracle did happen. Yet the very fact that the attempt was made wins diplomatic points for North Korea / Romulus. The goal is to remain feared, and often also to be considered mentally deranged and dangerously unpredictable. What we saw happen here certainly fits those bills... In this scenario, Romulus feels weakened by the recent series of defeats, and makes symbolic moves when realizing it cannot make concrete ones. Essentially the opposite of your proposal, then (just to demonstate the many possibilities).
Timo Saloniemi
The RNZ leaks like a sieve even after the introduction of the tachyon tripwire. This doesn't mean the Romulans would have complete freedom of operations, though: in "Face of the Enemy", Troi's Warbird penetrates the actual Zone with ease, but is soon caught when moving deeper into UFP territory. No doubt sailing in company of very visible and very "noisy" old Vulcan ships on supposedly legitimate business would help a big invasion fleet of Warbirds fare better!
Another way to view "Unification" would be as a "glorious failure" - an approach successfully promoted by the likes of North Korea. In it, audacious missions of infiltration or destruction are launched with essentially zero chance of success and with no tangible value even if success by some miracle did happen. Yet the very fact that the attempt was made wins diplomatic points for North Korea / Romulus. The goal is to remain feared, and often also to be considered mentally deranged and dangerously unpredictable. What we saw happen here certainly fits those bills... In this scenario, Romulus feels weakened by the recent series of defeats, and makes symbolic moves when realizing it cannot make concrete ones. Essentially the opposite of your proposal, then (just to demonstate the many possibilities).
Timo Saloniemi
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