Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

He was a doctor who performed abortions only after other doctors, who he thought were capable and trustworthy, told him that the mothers' health was being seriously and irreversibly, impaired by pregnancy.

There is no proof that Dr Tiller was guilty of knowingly performing an unncessary late-term abortion.

I'm sure KT, who approves the murder of Dr Tiller, doesn't care about the distinction. Assuming there is even the intellectual honesty to do so on his part.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I think that it worth noting that Dr Ann Kristen Neuhaus was found to have failed to meet an acceptable standard In performing exams on 11 patients who she referred to Dr Tiller. In each of these cases she was the second opinion doctor and there is no suggestion that the first opinion doctor was anything but thorough in his/her examination and that doctor also recommended an abortion. I see no evidence that any of these 11 abortions were unneccessary.

One of them was performed on a 10 year old rape victim. The others were all performed on women under the age of 18.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

He was a doctor who was performing an invasive medical procedure.

That is legal to do.

The guy who shot him? Did nothing legal whatsoever.

 

[1001001]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

In an attempt to get this thread at least somewhat back on track...I give you well-known Anti-Choice extremist Randall Terry and his videotaped statement in the wake of the murder of the abortion services provider Dr. George Tiller.

This is the mindset of far too many on the Anti-Choice/Pro-Life/Whatever side of things. A rigid, unflinching and dogmatic zeal that, tragically, doesn't tend to apply to babies after they're born. Guys like this are among the first to support budget cuts for pediatric and childhood programs because of their right-wing zeal in other areas of life and society.

I don't condone murder CE but if anyone ever deserved to die it was Dr. Tiller.

That's the "pro-life" movement for you.

A man practicing medicine legally is gunned down...in Church, for God's sake....and he deserved it.

Forget the whole justice system, rule of law, trials, consitutional rights, and all that. Let's just murder people who we don't like because "they deserve it".

Pro-Life, my ass.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It seems that I misunderstood Kansas law. When I saw that the law stated that two independent doctors had to agree to an late-term abortion I thought that that meant that both had to be independent of the doctor performing the abortion. I was wrong. It seems that Tiller himself was the first doctor but there is no suggestion that his 1st doctor decisions were wrongly arrived at.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It seems that I misunderstood Kansas law. When I saw that the law stated that two independent doctors had to agree to an late-term abortion I thought that that meant that both had to be independent of the doctor performing the abortion. I was wrong. It seems that Tiller himself was the first doctor but there is no suggestion that his 1st doctor decisions were wrongly arrived at.

I thought the two doctors had to be financially independent of the abortion provider.

Which naturally means that Tiller could not make recommendations regarding late term abortions himself.

 

[nightwind1]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

He was killing completely healthy near full term babies.

At least according to the wikipedia.

Say what you will about abortions prior to 24 weeks or so, but to me that is cold blooded murder.

According to Wikipedia, he was only performing late term abortions in extreme cases of birth defects or when the mothers' health was being seriously affected by their pregnancies

In accordance with Kansas state law Tiller performed late-term abortions, which helped to make him a focal point for anti-abortion protest and violence. Tiller treated patients who discovered late in pregnancy that their fetuses had severe or fatal birth defects. He also aborted healthy late-term fetuses, in cases where two doctors certified that carrying the fetus to term would cause the woman "substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function."

IIRC, one of the doctors certifying that carrying the fetus to term would cause substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function was not supposed to do so.

At any rate, killiing a near full term infant just because of some nebulous "impairment" to the mother is murder pure and simple.

So, aborting a fetus which, even if it is healthy, has no possible way to feed or support itself is murder, even to save the life of a woman who is already a living, breathing, self-aware, functioning member of society?


EDIT: Forgot this was Misc, thought was TNZ. Apologies to all (except Templar).

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

According to Wikipedia, he was only performing late term abortions in extreme cases of birth defects or when the mothers' health was being seriously affected by their pregnancies

IIRC, one of the doctors certifying that carrying the fetus to term would cause substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function was not supposed to do so.

At any rate, killiing a near full term infant just because of some nebulous "impairment" to the mother is murder pure and simple.

So, aborting a fetus which, even if it is healthy, has no possible way to feed or support itself is murder, even to save the life of a woman who is already a living, breathing, self-aware, functioning member of society?


Go drink a bottle of Draino, shitstain.

There is nothing about the womans life being endangered by the pregnancy in the abortions Tiller performed that I'm referencing.

and remember the forum you're posting in lady.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It seems that I misunderstood Kansas law. When I saw that the law stated that two independent doctors had to agree to an late-term abortion I thought that that meant that both had to be independent of the doctor performing the abortion. I was wrong. It seems that Tiller himself was the first doctor but there is no suggestion that his 1st doctor decisions were wrongly arrived at.

I thought the two doctors had to be financially independent of the abortion provider.

Which naturally means that Tiller could not make recommendations regarding late term abortions himself.

I am not certain. Some reports (usually pro-life sites) say that Tiller was the other doctor, but I have also seen reports that say the two doctors were independent of Tiller which was the impression I orginally had.

However as I read the law the doctors have to be independent of each other, and one of them can be the doctor performing the abortion. If that is the case than Tiller's opinion of the abortion seem to be quite legal.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

....

Dude, this is Misc.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

There is nothing about the womans life being endangered by the pregnancy in the abortions Tiller performed that I'm referencing.

What case? I can find no case where proof hs been provided that an abortion was unneccessary.

Of the 11 cases Neuhaus was investigate most involved young girls one of whom was just 10 years old. I don't think a ten year old should have to give birth to a baby which was a result of rape and incest.

The other casesI can only find scanty details about and I have no real idea on the true reasons for those abortions. However the court found out that Tiller did not act illegally.

 

[wissaboo]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It seems that I misunderstood Kansas law. When I saw that the law stated that two independent doctors had to agree to an late-term abortion I thought that that meant that both had to be independent of the doctor performing the abortion. I was wrong. It seems that Tiller himself was the first doctor but there is no suggestion that his 1st doctor decisions were wrongly arrived at.

I don't know how that is a problem. He is a doctor after all. It's not like he'd be performing them for a thrill.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It isn't a problem for me.

However it does seem to be a problem for the anti-choice people. They are the ones that have taken issue with Tiller being the one of the doctors who made the decision. They don't think that Tiller should make the decision (because he is performing the abortion) and in lieu of Dr Neuhaus not following proper procedure they think that Tiller himelf has been performing illegal abortion despite the fact that the law states he can make a decision, and despite that it hasn't been proven that any of his decisions were motivated by anything other than concern for the health and safety of his patients.

 

[Lumi]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Don't put your dick into a woman's vagina unless you are prepared to accept any and all potential consequences--and that includes child support.

This.

 

[IndyJones]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

If you want to read about "cost plus" contracts, a good place would be Dr. Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars" where he explains his time at Martin Marietta.

Have you actually read any other books, or are you now planning on suggesting this book no matter the topic?

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I just don't get the Zubrin obsession. This must be the fiftieth time he and his book have been mentioned both here and over in TNZ.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

If you want to read about "cost plus" contracts, a good place would be Dr. Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars" where he explains his time at Martin Marietta.

Have you actually read any other books, or are you now planning on suggesting this book no matter the topic?

Of course,

"Entering Space" by Dr. Robert Zubrin
"First Landing" by Dr. Robert Zubrin

I'll continue to quote the book as long as it has material relevant to the conversation.

I just don't get the Zubrin obsession. This must be the fiftieth time he and his book have been mentioned both here and over in TNZ.

Dr. Zubrin's brilliant work is to be admired and his type of thinking replicated whenever possible.

He also wrote a rules book for three player Chess back in the 1970s or early 80s IIRC.

I played three player Chess once. Came in second.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I care no more about his death than I would if one of the furnace operators in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany was murdered.

A lynching fan trying to rationalize his totally lack of ethics via anti-fascist rhetoric. I love involuntary self-irony. Why don't you tell us whom else you decided to lynch on the last Klan meeting?

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I care no more about his death than I would if one of the furnace operators in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany was murdered.

A lynching fan trying to rationalize his totally lack of ethics via anti-fascist rhetoric. I love involuntary self-irony. Why don't you tell us whom else you decided to lynch on the last Klan meeting?

You know full well I've never been a member of the Klan.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I care no more about his death than I would if one of the furnace operators in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany was murdered.

A lynching fan trying to rationalize his totally lack of ethics via anti-fascist rhetoric. I love involuntary self-irony. Why don't you tell us whom else you decided to lynch on the last Klan meeting?

You know full well I've never been a member of the Klan.

And how do we know that?