Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Oh yeah.

Because the U.S. invading the home country to Mecca and Medina would go over so very well

Asking who profits and who loses from a war is the most natural question in the world. That Halliburton has won is pretty obvious as nobody who has the interest of the public in mind would design cost-plus contracts.

.

I suppose you don't know this, but vast numbers of U.S. govt. contracts are "cost plus". Basically guaranteeing a contractor a fixed rate of return. Because lots of corporations will not agree to a "fixed price" contract without insisting on a simply MASSIVE profit margin.

The cost plus contracts protect a contractor from risks of the govt. suddenly changing parts of the contract that increase costs (this routinely happens under defense contracts).

I also suppose you don't know that Halliburton actually signed many of the contracts that were in effect up through the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq during the CLINTON Admin. which they had few direct ties to.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

In an attempt to get this thread at least somewhat back on track...I give you well-known Anti-Choice extremist Randall Terry and his videotaped statement in the wake of the murder of the abortion services provider Dr. George Tiller.

This is the mindset of far too many on the Anti-Choice/Pro-Life/Whatever side of things. A rigid, unflinching and dogmatic zeal that, tragically, doesn't tend to apply to babies after they're born. Guys like this are among the first to support budget cuts for pediatric and childhood programs because of their right-wing zeal in other areas of life and society.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08C9O_4BbcA[/yt]

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Oh yeah.

Because the U.S. invading the home country to Mecca and Medina would go over so very well

Asking who profits and who loses from a war is the most natural question in the world. That Halliburton has won is pretty obvious as nobody who has the interest of the public in mind would design cost-plus contracts.

.

I suppose you don't know this, but vast numbers of U.S. govt. contracts are "cost plus". Basically guaranteeing a contractor a fixed rate of return. Because lots of corporations will not agree to a "fixed price" contract without insisting on a simply MASSIVE profit margin.

The cost plus contracts protect a contractor from risks of the govt. suddenly changing parts of the contract that increase costs (this routinely happens under defense contracts).
I also suppose you don't know that Halliburton actually signed many of the contracts that were in effect up through the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq during the CLINTON Admin. which they had few direct ties to.

I suppose you don't know that the former CEO of Halliburton was vice president during the time of the Iraq war (not that I deny any connections with other administrations, would be strange if this were not the case) and I suppose you also don't know that in Iraq Halliburton did stuff like letting empty transports roll along or even destroy its own vehicles.
Doesn't take a lot of mental effort to figure out that a cost-plus contract creates perverse incentives.

If these contracts are indeed as wide-spread as you claim they are which I seriously doubt then you have a pretty serious corruption problem in other public sectors besides just defense.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Asking who profits and who loses from a war is the most natural question in the world. That Halliburton has won is pretty obvious as nobody who has the interest of the public in mind would design cost-plus contracts.

.

I suppose you don't know this, but vast numbers of U.S. govt. contracts are "cost plus". Basically guaranteeing a contractor a fixed rate of return. Because lots of corporations will not agree to a "fixed price" contract without insisting on a simply MASSIVE profit margin.

The cost plus contracts protect a contractor from risks of the govt. suddenly changing parts of the contract that increase costs (this routinely happens under defense contracts).
I also suppose you don't know that Halliburton actually signed many of the contracts that were in effect up through the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq during the CLINTON Admin. which they had few direct ties to.

I suppose you don't know that the former CEO of Halliburton was vice president during the time of the Iraq war (not that I deny any connections with other administrations, would be strange if this were not the case) and I suppose you also don't know that in Iraq Halliburton did stuff like letting empty transports roll along or even destroy its own vehicles.
Doesn't take a lot of mental effort to figure out that a cost-plus contract creates perverse incentives.

If these contracts are indeed as wide-spread as you claim they are which I seriously doubt then you have a pretty serious corruption problem in other public sectors besides just defense.

So.

Halliburton had cost-plus contracts before President Bush was elected. They had cost-plus contracts after President Bush was elected.

And in regards to thinks like fighting oil field fires, there was only one company in the world aside from Kellogg-Brown-Root which was considered to have the expertise to fight them. And that was a French company.

If you want to read about "cost plus" contracts, a good place would be Dr. Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars" where he explains his time at Martin Marietta.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

In an attempt to get this thread at least somewhat back on track...I give you well-known Anti-Choice extremist Randall Terry and his videotaped statement in the wake of the murder of the abortion services provider Dr. George Tiller.

This is the mindset of far too many on the Anti-Choice/Pro-Life/Whatever side of things. A rigid, unflinching and dogmatic zeal that, tragically, doesn't tend to apply to babies after they're born. Guys like this are among the first to support budget cuts for pediatric and childhood programs because of their right-wing zeal in other areas of life and society.

I don't condone murder CE but if anyone ever deserved to die it was Dr. Tiller.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I suppose you don't know this, but vast numbers of U.S. govt. contracts are "cost plus". Basically guaranteeing a contractor a fixed rate of return. Because lots of corporations will not agree to a "fixed price" contract without insisting on a simply MASSIVE profit margin.

The cost plus contracts protect a contractor from risks of the govt. suddenly changing parts of the contract that increase costs (this routinely happens under defense contracts).
I also suppose you don't know that Halliburton actually signed many of the contracts that were in effect up through the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq during the CLINTON Admin. which they had few direct ties to.

I suppose you don't know that the former CEO of Halliburton was vice president during the time of the Iraq war (not that I deny any connections with other administrations, would be strange if this were not the case) and I suppose you also don't know that in Iraq Halliburton did stuff like letting empty transports roll along or even destroy its own vehicles.
Doesn't take a lot of mental effort to figure out that a cost-plus contract creates perverse incentives.

If these contracts are indeed as wide-spread as you claim they are which I seriously doubt then you have a pretty serious corruption problem in other public sectors besides just defense.

So.

Halliburton had cost-plus contracts before President Bush was elected. They had cost-plus contracts after President Bush was elected.

And in regards to thinks like fighting oil field fires, there was only one company in the world aside from Kellogg-Brown-Root which was considered to have the expertise to fight them. And that was a French company.

If you want to read about "cost plus" contracts, a good place would be Dr. Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars" where he explains his time at Martin Marietta.

Well, what good is a cost-plus contract if you don't actually get to capitalize on it? I'm sure Halliburton had absolutely no interest in getting a war-hungry administration put into place after Clinton. 9/11 was an absolute gift to the military-industrial complex, logistics contractors like Halliburton in particular.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I suppose you don't know that the former CEO of Halliburton was vice president during the time of the Iraq war (not that I deny any connections with other administrations, would be strange if this were not the case) and I suppose you also don't know that in Iraq Halliburton did stuff like letting empty transports roll along or even destroy its own vehicles.
Doesn't take a lot of mental effort to figure out that a cost-plus contract creates perverse incentives.

If these contracts are indeed as wide-spread as you claim they are which I seriously doubt then you have a pretty serious corruption problem in other public sectors besides just defense.

So.

Halliburton had cost-plus contracts before President Bush was elected. They had cost-plus contracts after President Bush was elected.

And in regards to thinks like fighting oil field fires, there was only one company in the world aside from Kellogg-Brown-Root which was considered to have the expertise to fight them. And that was a French company.

If you want to read about "cost plus" contracts, a good place would be Dr. Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars" where he explains his time at Martin Marietta.

Well, what good is a cost-plus contract if you don't actually get to capitalize on it? I'm sure Halliburton had absolutely no interest in getting a war-hungry administration put into place after Clinton. 9/11 was an absolute gift to the military-industrial complex, logistics contractors like Halliburton in particular.

Not really.

In the modern world, actual combat is bad for the so called "military-industrial complex" because defense funds have to go into "operations" (food, fuel, munitions, et cetera) instead of "procurement" (new weapons systems).

And procurement is where the big money in the defense industry is.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

So.

Halliburton had cost-plus contracts before President Bush was elected. They had cost-plus contracts after President Bush was elected.

And in regards to thinks like fighting oil field fires, there was only one company in the world aside from Kellogg-Brown-Root which was considered to have the expertise to fight them. And that was a French company.

If you want to read about "cost plus" contracts, a good place would be Dr. Robert Zubrin's "The Case for Mars" where he explains his time at Martin Marietta.

Well, what good is a cost-plus contract if you don't actually get to capitalize on it? I'm sure Halliburton had absolutely no interest in getting a war-hungry administration put into place after Clinton. 9/11 was an absolute gift to the military-industrial complex, logistics contractors like Halliburton in particular.

Not really.

In the modern world, actual combat is bad for the so called "military-industrial complex" because defense funds have to go into "operations" (food, fuel, munitions, et cetera) instead of "procurement" (new weapons systems).

And procurement is where the big money in the defense industry is.

So ongoing warfare doesn't result in orders for replacement/additional materiel? Bullshit.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

We all know how "well" the private sector looked after the poor in previous centuries.

Really? How about in the United States in 1965 or so?

I should have worded the question better. i meant in the years before the last hundred years. Some governments started to introduce widow's and invalid pensions around the time of WW1 - a handful of countries including Australia a few years before WW1- and social programs have increase dramatic since then.

life has improved for the poor since governments started to provide for the poor and I believe it would never had improved by such a decree if care of the poor had been totally left to the private sector.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Well, what good is a cost-plus contract if you don't actually get to capitalize on it? I'm sure Halliburton had absolutely no interest in getting a war-hungry administration put into place after Clinton. 9/11 was an absolute gift to the military-industrial complex, logistics contractors like Halliburton in particular.

Not really.

In the modern world, actual combat is bad for the so called "military-industrial complex" because defense funds have to go into "operations" (food, fuel, munitions, et cetera) instead of "procurement" (new weapons systems).

And procurement is where the big money in the defense industry is.

So ongoing warfare doesn't result in orders for replacement/additional materiel? Bullshit.

It does but replacement and repair does not carry the profits that new procurement does.

 

[datagal]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

In an attempt to get this thread at least somewhat back on track...I give you well-known Anti-Choice extremist Randall Terry and his videotaped statement in the wake of the murder of the abortion services provider Dr. George Tiller.

This is the mindset of far too many on the Anti-Choice/Pro-Life/Whatever side of things. A rigid, unflinching and dogmatic zeal that, tragically, doesn't tend to apply to babies after they're born. Guys like this are among the first to support budget cuts for pediatric and childhood programs because of their right-wing zeal in other areas of life and society.

I don't condone murder CE but if anyone ever deserved to die it was Dr. Tiller.

I have nothing to say.
Wow.

 

[nightwind1]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

In an attempt to get this thread at least somewhat back on track...I give you well-known Anti-Choice extremist Randall Terry and his videotaped statement in the wake of the murder of the abortion services provider Dr. George Tiller.

This is the mindset of far too many on the Anti-Choice/Pro-Life/Whatever side of things. A rigid, unflinching and dogmatic zeal that, tragically, doesn't tend to apply to babies after they're born. Guys like this are among the first to support budget cuts for pediatric and childhood programs because of their right-wing zeal in other areas of life and society.

I don't condone murder CE but if anyone ever deserved to die it was Dr. Tiller.

Then you ARE condoning murder. The murder of a medical professional performing medical services.

So you are pro-murder now. Nice to know.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

In an attempt to get this thread at least somewhat back on track...I give you well-known Anti-Choice extremist Randall Terry and his videotaped statement in the wake of the murder of the abortion services provider Dr. George Tiller.

This is the mindset of far too many on the Anti-Choice/Pro-Life/Whatever side of things. A rigid, unflinching and dogmatic zeal that, tragically, doesn't tend to apply to babies after they're born. Guys like this are among the first to support budget cuts for pediatric and childhood programs because of their right-wing zeal in other areas of life and society.

I don't condone murder CE but if anyone ever deserved to die it was Dr. Tiller.

I have nothing to say.
Wow.

In an attempt to get this thread at least somewhat back on track...I give you well-known Anti-Choice extremist Randall Terry and his videotaped statement in the wake of the murder of the abortion services provider Dr. George Tiller.

This is the mindset of far too many on the Anti-Choice/Pro-Life/Whatever side of things. A rigid, unflinching and dogmatic zeal that, tragically, doesn't tend to apply to babies after they're born. Guys like this are among the first to support budget cuts for pediatric and childhood programs because of their right-wing zeal in other areas of life and society.

I don't condone murder CE but if anyone ever deserved to die it was Dr. Tiller.

Then you ARE condoning murder. The murder of a medical professional performing medical services.

So you are pro-murder now. Nice to know.

He was killing completely healthy near full term babies.

At least according to the wikipedia.

Say what you will about abortions prior to 24 weeks or so, but to me that is cold blooded murder.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

In an attempt to get this thread at least somewhat back on track...I give you well-known Anti-Choice extremist Randall Terry and his videotaped statement in the wake of the murder of the abortion services provider Dr. George Tiller.

This is the mindset of far too many on the Anti-Choice/Pro-Life/Whatever side of things. A rigid, unflinching and dogmatic zeal that, tragically, doesn't tend to apply to babies after they're born. Guys like this are among the first to support budget cuts for pediatric and childhood programs because of their right-wing zeal in other areas of life and society.

I don't condone murder CE but if anyone ever deserved to die it was Dr. Tiller.

Then you ARE condoning murder. The murder of a medical professional performing medical services.

So you are pro-murder now. Nice to know.

KT is quite the hypocrite.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I don't condone murder CE but if anyone ever deserved to die it was Dr. Tiller.

I have nothing to say.
Wow.

I don't condone murder CE but if anyone ever deserved to die it was Dr. Tiller.

Then you ARE condoning murder. The murder of a medical professional performing medical services.

So you are pro-murder now. Nice to know.

He was killing completely healthy near full term babies.

At least according to the wikipedia.

Say what you will about abortions prior to 24 weeks or so, but to me that is cold blooded murder.

According to Wikipedia, he was only performing late term abortions in extreme cases of birth defects or when the mothers' health was being seriously affected by their pregnancies

In accordance with Kansas state law Tiller performed late-term abortions, which helped to make him a focal point for anti-abortion protest and violence. Tiller treated patients who discovered late in pregnancy that their fetuses had severe or fatal birth defects. He also aborted healthy late-term fetuses, in cases where two doctors certified that carrying the fetus to term would cause the woman "substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function."

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I have nothing to say.
Wow.

He was killing completely healthy near full term babies.

At least according to the wikipedia.

Say what you will about abortions prior to 24 weeks or so, but to me that is cold blooded murder.

According to Wikipedia, he was only performing late term abortions in extreme cases of birth defects or when the mothers' health was being seriously affected by their pregnancies

In accordance with Kansas state law Tiller performed late-term abortions, which helped to make him a focal point for anti-abortion protest and violence. Tiller treated patients who discovered late in pregnancy that their fetuses had severe or fatal birth defects. He also aborted healthy late-term fetuses, in cases where two doctors certified that carrying the fetus to term would cause the woman "substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function."

IIRC, one of the doctors certifying that carrying the fetus to term would cause substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function was not supposed to do so.

At any rate, killiing a near full term infant just because of some nebulous "impairment" to the mother is murder pure and simple.

I'm against murder but I'm quite happy that Dr. George "the baby killer" Tiller is dead.

I care no more about his death than I would if one of the furnace operators in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany was murdered.

 

[Mary Ann]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

One poster suggested that someone of my belief cannot care to adopt a mixed-race child or one with special needs.

If this is my post you were referring to, this is NOT what I said, and I do not appreciate having my words twisted to make yourself appear a victim of words which were never said.

I would be willing to adopt in both cases.

Good for you, honestly. That would be one such child adopted. How about the rest of them? If there are so many "not-perfect" babies not being adopted now what's going to happen with a possible influx of more such children? How about giving an answer not just in terms of vague arguments regarding public vs. private organisations, but in concrete terms? I want to know what you think will happen to all these children in a realistic way. I'd like to know where these children will live, who will look after them, and so on.

it's important to point out that anyone who undertakes to become a parent, by adoption or conceiving their own child, must automatically accept the possibility that their child may turn out to have special needs. Even if a child is born healthy, accidents, illnesses, and environmental risks happen, so every potential parent should remember that their child could still encounter some sort of unexpected challenge even if everything is OK at birth.

This goes without saying, but still doesn't answer the situation I addressed.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

IIRC, one of the doctors certifying that carrying the fetus to term would cause substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function was not supposed to do so.

Yes, another doctor was found to be at have acted improperly not Dr Tiller himself.

At any rate, killiing a near full term infant just because of some nebulous "impairment" to the mother is murder pure and simple.

do you have any evidence that Dr Tiller knew that the mothers concerned didn't have very serious health problems that would have resulted in irreversible organ damage?

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

IIRC, one of the doctors certifying that carrying the fetus to term would cause substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function was not supposed to do so.

Yes, another doctor was found to be at have acted improperly not Dr Tiller himself.

At any rate, killiing a near full term infant just because of some nebulous "impairment" to the mother is murder pure and simple.

do you have any evidence that Dr Tiller knew that the mothers concerned didn't have very serious health problems that would have resulted in irreversible organ damage?

He was a doctor who was performing an invasive medical procedure.

Common sense and professional ethics would dictate that he know.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

He was a doctor who performed abortions only after other doctors, who he thought were capable and trustworthy, told him that the mothers' health was being seriously and irreversibly, impaired by pregnancy.

There is no proof that Dr Tiller was guilty of knowingly performing an unncessary late-term abortion.