TWOK "I'm delighted, any chance to go aboard the Enterprise..."

[ZapBrannigan]

Maurice wrote:

Oh, there's more. It was edited out.

SULU
(embarrassed)
I am delighted; any chance to go
aboard Enterprise, however briefly,
is always an excuse for nostalgia.

KIRK
I cut your new orders personally. By
the end of the month, you'll have your
first command: USS EXCELSIOR.

SULU
Thank you, sir. I've looked
forward to this for a long time.

KIRK
You've earned it. But I'm still
grateful to have you at the helm
for three weeks. I don't believe
these kids can steer.​

I'm glad it was cut. It reads like a scene that serves only the Sulu character (and his off-screen story at that!), rather than TWOK's story or anything whatsoever to do with this film. Like the whole momentum of TWOK is supposed to stop and cool its heels while we indulge a supporting actor's ambition.

Trimming out weak material allows a film to sweep along at a good pace. This scene is weak because it was written for George's benefit rather than for Star Trek's, and I'd expect it to play even worse on screen because we're not talking about the world's best actors here.
​

 

[Captain Atkin]

Why does it have to be some ulterior reason? Why can't it be like so many other dialog trims in the movie: because it was deemed unnecessary?

And, re Meyer's opinion of Takei's acting...

"[Do you think Leonard has enough to do? Do you think you'll be able to get George Takei to act?]"

Nick Meyer's
memo to Harve Bennet
re his treatment for "Return to Genesis"​

I never suggested there was an ulterior motive as to why it was cut. I simply gave logical reasons as to why that scene may not have worked. Sometimes actors gel in a shared scene, and sometimes they don't. I don't believe William Shatner purposely sabotaged that scene, but I also don't believe it was cut due to bad acting from George. It may have just been cut due to the film's running time for all we know.

 

[OpenMaw]

Yeah, TWOK is a film that got cut up a little too much, Meyer's director's cut has a few very important scenes that are cut in the theatrical cut, but this is one of those little bits that I think is better left out. I don't see it adding anything. It's just unfortunate that you can tell that something is cut simply by the way the line is chopped off. Ah, well, no movie is perfect.

 

[Maurice]

It's a bad edit. They could have fixed it several different ways, albeit TWOK suffers from some really bad ADR in a few places.

It's entirely possible the scene didn't work on camera, but given that the performances sound fine, and it's such a short bit, I tend to think it was cut purely for being superfluous. The dialog feels like actor-service. The reason I mentioned it is because George keeps telling the story of how Shatner ruined it, and this leads me to believe that's bunk.

 

[Lance]

Yeah, TWOK is a film that got cut up a little too much, Meyer's director's cut has a few very important scenes that are cut in the theatrical cut, but this is one of those little bits that I think is better left out. I don't see it adding anything. It's just unfortunate that you can tell that something is cut simply by the way the line is chopped off. Ah, well, no movie is perfect.

I guess the only thing it would add, retrospectively, is a little bit of foreshadowing of Sulu's eventual career path. But then, there's four whole movies between this scene and finally seeing him aboard Excelsior, so it's a bit of a gap regardless.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I guess the only thing it would add, retrospectively, is a little bit of foreshadowing of Sulu's eventual career path. But then, there's four whole movies between this scene and finally seeing him aboard Excelsior, so it's a bit of a gap regardless.

Not necessarily. I agree with others up-thread who think it would have been more interesting to have Sulu take command of the Excelsior in STIII. When Kirk petitions for their help, Scotty is quick to agree. But I think Sulu would have been a bit more hesitant, given that this is a huge career move for him. In fact, it would have been interesting to see *him* assigned to chase the Enterprise out of spacedock, and the one to say "Kirk, you do this, you'll never sit in a Captain's chair again."

The movie could have been much more complex in that respect, and Sulu's arc between 3 and 6 much more interesting.

 

[Paradise City]

It would've been more proper for Sulu to escort Kirk whilst pretending to give chase given that Enterprise is severely undermanned. With Sulu as Captain, he could bring Kirk back to face the music whilst McCoy goes off to Vulcan to do the bizzo. Of course its hard to twist things that they'd lose the Enterprise and wind up on the BOP all set up for their 80s San Fran excursion.

I think the way it unfolded was good and we missed a bullet with Sulu's scene being cut out of it. I dunno about a helmsman leaping straight to the Captain's chair. No bigee but it is a bit of a leap. He does looks the part in TUC though.

 

[Trimm]

I believe Harvey has actually viewed the TWOK workprint at UCLA, perhaps he could chime in on this.

 

[Maurice]

Had this bit been kept I doubt the supership in Trek III would have been Sulu's to command. In fact, the whole Genesis thing might've cost him whatever command he had due to the need to testify, be debriefed, given the political hot potato Genesis was bound to become.

 

[Trimm]

Had this bit been kept I doubt the supership in Trek III would have been Sulu's to command. In fact, the whole Genesis thing might've cost him whatever command he had due to the need to testify, be debriefed, given the political hot potato Genesis was bound to become.

Which is exactly how Vonda Macntyre handled it in the TSFS novelization.

 

[Dukhat]

Had this bit been kept I doubt the supership in Trek III would have been Sulu's to command.

Actually, if the line had been kept in, the supership in Trek III would probably just have been named something else other than "Excelsior" to avoid confusion.

 

[Maurice]

Had this bit been kept I doubt the supership in Trek III would have been Sulu's to command.

Actually, if the line had been kept in, the supership in Trek III would probably just have been named something else other than "Excelsior" to avoid confusion.

Vengeance.

 

[Harvey]

I believe Harvey has actually viewed the TWOK workprint at UCLA, perhaps he could chime in on this.

It's been a few years since I've seen it, but my recollection is that Shatner's body language was pretty awkward, and Takei's delivery was pretty stilted.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The idea that Shatner would blow a scene in order to keep Takei's character from getting promoted is utterly preposterous.

Absolutely. I'm sure Shatner was worrying about bigger things than whether or not Takei's character got a pretend promotion. Shatner deliberately tanking a scene just to screw over Takei just sounds like Takei's paranoia talking.

And if Shatner was low-energy in the scene, that could be attributed to Nicholas Meyer's directing style as much as anything. Meyer's admitted that he'd make Shatner do lots of takes to tire him out and get him to shake some of his more theatrical flourishes. After a while, Shatner would get tired or bored, stop "acting" and just start being. That's why Shatner is at his most naturalistic in Meyer's TWOK and TUC and rather hammy when he was directing himself in TFF.

Actually, if the line had been kept in, the supership in Trek III would probably just have been named something else other than "Excelsior" to avoid confusion.

I'm sure. The "Excelsior" name might've just as well been picked out of a hat. It's probably nothing more significant than Harve Bennett or someone else connected to the production liking the sound of it.

 

[Shikarnov]

I guess the only thing it would add, retrospectively, is a little bit of foreshadowing of Sulu's eventual career path. But then, there's four whole movies between this scene and finally seeing him aboard Excelsior, so it's a bit of a gap regardless.

Not necessarily. I agree with others up-thread who think it would have been more interesting to have Sulu take command of the Excelsior in STIII. When Kirk petitions for their help, Scotty is quick to agree. But I think Sulu would have been a bit more hesitant, given that this is a huge career move for him. In fact, it would have been interesting to see *him* assigned to chase the Enterprise out of spacedock, and the one to say "Kirk, you do this, you'll never sit in a Captain's chair again."

The movie could have been much more complex in that respect, and Sulu's arc between 3 and 6 much more interesting.

Imagining Sulu chasing Kirk is certainly a very compelling idea. And that line, uttered by a friend with whom you worked so closely for so long... Just wow. What comes off as pompous arrogance from Captain Styles would gain a sad potency from Captain Sulu.

"Admiral Kirk... Don't do this. You'll never sit in a captain's chair again..."

It almost reminds me of Kirk trying to convince Decker not to commit suicide in The Doomsday Machine.

"Matt. Matt, listen to me. You can't throw your life away like this. Matt, you're a starship commander. That makes you a valuable commodity. We need you, your experience, your judgment. Matt!"

Granted, Kirk's excursion is somewhat less dramatic, but I can't imagine he'd be much help to anybody after a court martial conviction that would probably result in being drummed out of the service -- if not time in prison. Sulu might very well see it a kind of suicide.

But, you know, aside from having a little fun, I just don't see it in "reality."

I can't imagine Sulu being unwilling to risk everything for this mission. McCoy's suffering alone would probably be enough to compel him to act. Add to the mix the chance for Spock to live again, and sheer loyalty to Kirk, and it seems like exactly the kind of noble sacrifice we'd expect from any of our heroes on screen. I'd even go so far as to say Sulu would make a pretty shitty captain if his first command decision was to betray friends in need.

But yeah, it would have made things interesting...

 

[OpenMaw]

Hell, give Sulu the command, then have him forced to make the choice between his career as a captain, and helping his friends.

Then the jerk-face XO takes over Excelsior and races off to stop the Enterprise.

 

[Timby]

Hell, give Sulu the command, then have him forced to make the choice between his career as a captain, and helping his friends.

Then the jerk-face XO takes over Excelsior and races off to stop the Enterprise.

Congratulations, you just added at least ten minutes to an already incredibly boring movie.

 

[OpenMaw]

Congratulations, you just added at least ten minutes to an already incredibly boring movie.

Considering I love Star Trek III, it would be ten more minutes of awesome sauce. And I happen to consider good character drama very entertaining.

 

[Paradise City]

Giving Sulu the Excelsior that early on would make a great movie boring and wreck a few sequels that were handy too.

There's no real reason why Sulu can't "chase" Enterprise but actually give the guys coverfire. If Sulu wasn't about in TWOK and was given a ship at the end/start of the TMP maybe you could have him torn. But Sulu is fresh from Mutura and isn't going to have one whit of an interest in stopping Kirk.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I never knew that the USS Excelsior was to be mentionent in TWOK. Interesting.