Two timelines? Spoilers for Season 5

[chrisspringob]

For example, you write "it instantly becomes a memory for him in the present". But it wasn't instant. He didn't remember it until years later. It's just that we, the audience, were shown him remember it an instant later. How did the universe decide at what moment he was supposed to remember that?

Ah, this is where it gets difficult to explain without a visual aid.

Remember that Desmond and Daniel started out as contemporaries in the story. Then at some point, Daniel traveled into the past to an earlier part of the timeline, while Desmond continued on from the point of Daniel's departure. Even though he's 30 years in the past, he's still moving linearly through time, just from an earlier starting point.

The interaction Daniel initiated in the 70s was instantly a memory for Desmond in the 2000s. I wonder if this helps to visualize what I'm trying to say:

== 2000s
* flash
---- 1970s
V interaction
^ memory

Daniel ============*-----------------V---->

Desmond ========================^===>

I'm not sure what you're saying. You have the switch to the 1970s after the flash in Faraday's history, yet his interaction with Desmond happened in the 2000s, not the 1970s. What happened is that, in late 2004, the time flashes begin, and Faraday starts bouncing around time with the other losties, while Desmond and several others escape from the Island. Faraday only spends a few days bouncing around time, before ending up in the 70s.

During those few days, one of his time skips takes him to some point in the early 2000s, when Desmond was in the hatch, and they have their interaction. Desmond doesn't remember that interaction until *2007*, several years after he left the Island. Desmond had left the Island several years ago, while Faraday had only experienced Desmond leaving the Island a few days ago. Are you trying to argue that no, they actually experienced the same subjective amount of time since then?

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Uhh what is that Korean or something? You just done blown my mind son!

 

[Mallet]

For example, you write "it instantly becomes a memory for him in the present". But it wasn't instant. He didn't remember it until years later. It's just that we, the audience, were shown him remember it an instant later. How did the universe decide at what moment he was supposed to remember that?

Ah, this is where it gets difficult to explain without a visual aid.

Remember that Desmond and Daniel started out as contemporaries in the story. Then at some point, Daniel traveled into the past to an earlier part of the timeline, while Desmond continued on from the point of Daniel's departure. Even though he's 30 years in the past, he's still moving linearly through time, just from an earlier starting point.

The interaction Daniel initiated in the 70s was instantly a memory for Desmond in the 2000s. I wonder if this helps to visualize what I'm trying to say:

== 2000s
* flash
---- 1970s
V interaction
^ memory

Daniel ============*-----------------V---->

Desmond ========================^===>

I don't think that that is the case. I think we are supposed to believe that Desmond just forgot about the meeting due to his long time in isolation in the hatch and then all of the events after the Losties found him. He thought it was a dream or he imagined it, etc... Then he just remembered it one night.

Just like Ben has never known/remembered that Sayid shot him when he was younger, but I'll bet that soon enough he will remember it "all of a sudden" and then he will want to kill Sayid.

 

[McCoy]

Dammit I thought I had it figured out.

My head hurts.

 

[Hober Mallow]

^ And that's something I'd like to see explained in more detail. Why Des is so special.

I've always felt it was the island that did it to him -- specifically the electromagnetic discharge that temporarily dislodged him from time. It's why he was sent back in time, why he started seeing the future, and why he started bouncing around time periods in "The Constant." Ever since that energy was released he's been pulled out time.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I think you just answered your own question.

I'm not particularily thrilled with the LOST writers vision of time travel, but it is what it is.

Given what we know in physics of time as another dimension inextricably connected with space, with form and shape, the Lost version of time travel may, in fact, be accurate. There isn't any reason time should ever be able to be altered any more than the dimensions of our moon may suddenly alter itself into a cube shape instantaneously with no apparent cause and for no apparent reason.

 

[ITL]

^ And that's something I'd like to see explained in more detail. Why Des is so special.

I've always felt it was the island that did it to him -- specifically the electromagnetic discharge that temporarily dislodged him from time. It's why he was sent back in time, why he started seeing the future, and why he started bouncing around time periods in "The Constant." Ever since that energy was released he's been pulled out time.

Yep, sounds cool to me!

 

[propita]

Ah, this is where it gets difficult to explain without a visual aid.

Remember that Desmond and Daniel started out as contemporaries in the story. Then at some point, Daniel traveled into the past to an earlier part of the timeline, while Desmond continued on from the point of Daniel's departure. Even though he's 30 years in the past, he's still moving linearly through time, just from an earlier starting point.

The interaction Daniel initiated in the 70s was instantly a memory for Desmond in the 2000s. I wonder if this helps to visualize what I'm trying to say:

== 2000s
* flash
---- 1970s
V interaction
^ memory

Daniel ============*-----------------V---->

Desmond ========================^===>

I tried to describe it to my sister (who has, at age 49, discovered the joys of [popular] science fiction) just like this , but I like your visual aid.

I think the comments are right that the "V" takes place in the 2000s--during the time of the flashes. So I guess the timeline from "*" to "V" is actually a mix of times, then "V" in the 2000s before the Losties meet Desmond. THEN the 1970s:

== 2000s
* flashes with travels to distant/recent past
+ final flash to 1970s
---- 1970s
V interaction
^ memory


Daniel ========*********V*+----->

Desmond ===============^======>

Does this sound right?

BTW: WHERE IS DANIEL?

 

[McCoy]

Hm. Maybe. I'm not sure anymore. Could be.

Ouch.

 

[chrisspringob]

Ah, this is where it gets difficult to explain without a visual aid.

Remember that Desmond and Daniel started out as contemporaries in the story. Then at some point, Daniel traveled into the past to an earlier part of the timeline, while Desmond continued on from the point of Daniel's departure. Even though he's 30 years in the past, he's still moving linearly through time, just from an earlier starting point.

The interaction Daniel initiated in the 70s was instantly a memory for Desmond in the 2000s. I wonder if this helps to visualize what I'm trying to say:

== 2000s
* flash
---- 1970s
V interaction
^ memory

Daniel ============*-----------------V---->

Desmond ========================^===>

I tried to describe it to my sister (who has, at age 49, discovered the joys of [popular] science fiction) just like this , but I like your visual aid.

I think the comments are right that the "V" takes place in the 2000s--during the time of the flashes. So I guess the timeline from "*" to "V" is actually a mix of times, then "V" in the 2000s before the Losties meet Desmond. THEN the 1970s:

== 2000s
* flashes with travels to distant/recent past
+ final flash to 1970s
---- 1970s
V interaction
^ memory


Daniel ========*********V*+----->

Desmond ===============^======>

Does this sound right?

Depends. Are you suggesting that Desmond's memory of the event happens right after Faraday's flash to the 1970s? Because that's not what happens. During Faraday's time jumping, he runs into Desmond in the early 2000s. Desmond doesn't remember this encounter until 2007. *Why* does Desmond not remember the event until 2007? That is the question.

You can say that the normal rules don't apply to him, but then, what rules *do* apply to him? How does the universe decide when he's supposed to remember things like this? The memory just comes to him whenever it's convenient for the plot?

 

[McCoy]

Yeah, the reason this is difficult to pin down is that even though it was presented to the audience as being immediate (Desmond himself seems to imply that it was not a memory before that moment), the perspectives don't match.

The elapsed time for Daniel between the start of the flashes and the past interaction with Desmond looked to be only about a few days. While for Desmond, it appeared 2-3 years had passed between leaving the island (which coincided with the start of the flashes for Daniel) and remembering the interaction.

I think the writers were trying to make it look like it happens immediately, which is what I picked up on and what I tried to rationalize. I mean, if it's just a suppressed memory that suddenly resurfaces, well that could happen to anyone, what is the point of saying that Desmond is different than everyone else?

But when you realize that the elapsed time for the two characters up to the point of that suggested interaction/memory do not match up...definitely an inconsistency.