There was no argument. I cracked a joke about Seven of Boobs--I meant Boobarella--oops, I meant a fictional character with big boobies whose boobage was exploited to their boobiest, at the expense of all the other characters. A virtue signaling muppet couldn't take a joke and made a federal case over it.
Tuvok underutilized in early episodes
- Thread starter EmpokNor
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There was no argument. I cracked a joke about Seven of Boobs--I meant Boobarella--oops, I meant a fictional character with big boobies whose boobage was exploited to their boobiest, at the expense of all the other characters. A virtue signaling muppet couldn't take a joke and made a federal case over it.
I think that he was criticizing the producers for exploiting Seven of Nine's sexuality, and now I think everybody has the same basic goal of saying that was wrong and is being just a taaaad smug on one side and crass on the other side in their manner of expressing this.
Just because you don't find something offensive doesn't mean it's not okay for other people to, and just because you see something as offensive doesn't mean it's objectively backwards and evil when other people don't see it the same way.
The producers preference for sexuality over character development is well documented, they eliminated Kes instead of Kim strictly to use him as male eye candy.
Just because you don't find something offensive doesn't mean it's not okay for other people to, and just because you see something as offensive doesn't mean it's objectively backwards and evil when other people don't see it the same way.
The producers preference for sexuality over character development is well documented, they eliminated Kes instead of Kim strictly to use him as male eye candy.
Thank you for such a well-reasoned response.
Warning for Flaming.
Your initial foray into the topic left a lot to be desired in the class department. Your subsequent posts about Seven didn't do much to improve upon that. It's pretty clear she was brought in for a ratings grab, and her presence was detrimental to the ensemble, but your approach didn't really lend itself to positive discussion. Suggest you settle a bit. Thanks.
Don't worry about me "settling down", I will be leaving. When people on a forum can't tell the difference between someone joking about a character who was clearly brought on as eye candy, when people have to then jump to the defense of the actress as if I was attacking her (when I was making fun of the character and why that character was brought on), that's when it's time to leave. Especially when the mods are displaying a double standard. I had an exchange with someone a week ago over this issue that ended amicably. But apparently, it's okay if another person resurrects that exchange, carefully snips out two words out of everything I said in order to start accusing me of being on the "wrong side of history/argument" in order to start a brand new argument.
BTW, for the fake feminists getting "triggered" by jokes on forums and condescending to me about being on the wrong side of history and an argument, God bless you. You didn't live in age when feminism meant the difference between women safely having abortions and dying in alleyways, and you don't live in a Third World country where honor killing is the norm or female babies are killed for being useless or too expensive. So throwaway jokes on a forum about a fictional character are the worst you have to deal with, and you feel that all it takes to be "feminist" is to get triggered and go on condescending lectures on the internet about fictional TV characters that, at the end of the day, did nothing to help women anywhere. But it makes you feel good "as a feminist", so I guess that's all that matters. *shrugs*
But that's neither here nor there. I made a joke about Seven as I would any other character on the show. If people wanted to say it wasn't funny or whatever, that's fine. But I will not be condescended to about "feminist" issues by a generation that thinks that activism is about looking for "targets" to get outraged at so they can launch into condescending lectures displaying how "in the know" they are. Feminism--or any kind of activism--is about about learning to pick and fight your battles, and if you think "feminism" is going, "OMGERD! You made a joke about a female character having boobs," you have no idea what feminism is, why it was started and the serious issues it was meant to resolve.
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Oh man, I'm watching 'Year of Hell' part two and Tuvok - blind and loyal to Janeway (who is burned and defiant). He does the Vulcan live long and prosper thing, and she hugs him 
He hugs her back! Tentatively. Then Seven guides him away (and for all the put downs of Seven and her body, well stuff it! She is amazing and dedicated to Tuvok in this).
Slightly off topic but this is not just a good episode of 'Voyager' but a quality episode of Trek.
He hugs her back! Tentatively. Then Seven guides him away (and for all the put downs of Seven and her body, well stuff it! She is amazing and dedicated to Tuvok in this).Slightly off topic but this is not just a good episode of 'Voyager' but a quality episode of Trek.
I don't think Tuvok was underutilized in the earlier seasons, I think he was underutilized in the later seasons after Seven took over the show.
Just like Chakotay, Paris, Torres, Neelix and Kim he became a moving image in the background. They all became like Carey, Ayala, Hogan and some more background characters who were brought forward in some episodes and then shoved aside in most of hem.
Prax wrote:
I guess that's why I became so hostile against Seven back then. Because of the fact that Seven totally took over Kes's role on the ship. That made me furious every time Seven shoved up. All that, plus the mega campaign about "sexy seven" in all magazines and on official websites and such. Like having salt poured in the wounds over and over again.
Oh yeah, Jeri Taylor, one of the driving forces behind the "changes in season 4".
What really annoys me is that Taylor came up with good Kes stories, both in some episodes and in her books "Mosaic" and "Pathways".
That was before she all of a sudden lost the ability to come up with good Kes stories anymore, a disease which the other writers started suffering from as well.
Just like Chakotay, Paris, Torres, Neelix and Kim he became a moving image in the background. They all became like Carey, Ayala, Hogan and some more background characters who were brought forward in some episodes and then shoved aside in most of hem.
Prax wrote:
I guess that's why I became so hostile against Seven back then. Because of the fact that Seven totally took over Kes's role on the ship. That made me furious every time Seven shoved up. All that, plus the mega campaign about "sexy seven" in all magazines and on official websites and such. Like having salt poured in the wounds over and over again.
Oh yeah, Jeri Taylor, one of the driving forces behind the "changes in season 4".
What really annoys me is that Taylor came up with good Kes stories, both in some episodes and in her books "Mosaic" and "Pathways".
That was before she all of a sudden lost the ability to come up with good Kes stories anymore, a disease which the other writers started suffering from as well.
I thought Seven added tremendous life to the show. In some ways, she has some "spockyness," her aversion to emotion, yet she couldn't help but show emotion, even though she was a wounded soul who was not comfortable in her own skin...but then she evolved to accept herself in a human way (not with the Borg arrogance) and even connect a bit with her emotions. She evolves from amoral pragmatism...to experiencing her own humanity. Those who liked others characters, I understand the disappointment, but Seven did have so much to offer. Better writing could have taken advantage of Seven, but included other favorites more. Obviously Seven was more interesting then say, Kim. As far as Kes goes, reading about her recent unfortunate illness, my heart goes out to her. In many cases, such illnesses do not appear overnight, it is possible she might have been experiencing some health problems that affected her working on such a demanding show, and for that reason they might have chosen her to be the one to go when the cast had to be reduced.
A total sideways thought (stolen wholesale from another poster I will credit as soon as I find the original post). Trip and T'Pol had a telepathic link in Enterprise which transcended time and space and allowed them to speak in dreams. Sarek and Burnham have the same thing in Discovery. Kirk and Spock had the same in old 1980's Trek novels.
Apparently they all loved each other more than Tuvok loved his wife and kids.
Apparently they all loved each other more than Tuvok loved his wife and kids.
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My response to the thread title would be: Tuvok underutilized, period.
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