Agreed. And I just rewatched Scientific Method and J and T have a nice, moderately heartfelt conversation in her ready room that (to my eye) kind of re-enforces that trust and the solid working relationship the two had.
Tuvok underutilized in early episodes
- Thread starter EmpokNor
- Start date
I like this idea but again, I would have been glad that it's shown more. through acts and words.
Plus, even if I understand why Janeway choosed Chakotay as XO (a highly tactical decision to ensure the collaboration of his crew), it would have been great to get a scene, even short, where Janeway explained or at least, informed Tuvok of her choice, both knowing that the position belonged to him (aka Tuvok) according to his seniority & experience.
They do and for me I liked what I saw, since he was the first full Vulcan I ever saw on Star Trek. It was interesting to learn his ethics were drastically different from the most famous Vulcanian character of Star Trek. And Tuvok's tone and explanation about his ethics was dumbfounding to me, but that is the result from bad writing.
His role became microscopic when the popularity in the writer's room for 7 of 9 and the Doctor went into full blast. Whatever crumbs Tuvok received in the 4th thru 7th season, actor Tim Russ takes advantage of in every scene. Like the potential B'Elanna character, a gem which the writers couldn't see nor appreciate through those TNG, rose colored glasses.
Oh sorry, I didn't mean to word things in messy way. I do actually agree that there was a natural and earned closeness between Tuvok and Janeway. Probably could have been more scenes with them. I suspect the Janeway/Chakotay meals together was definitely because he was second in command, as you say the Maquis leader and then there's the human factor. Like as much as they shifted the focus later on, it's hard not to think the writers didn't set up a potential romance.
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Gul Sengosts
Guest
This. Tuvok mostly remains an underused character, but he gets his moments. "Meld" in season 2 being the most intense and my favourite one. In fact the #2 on my list of best VOY episodes.
Curious, what was your favourite?
I relish the scene in 'Meld' (and I admit to re-quoting it before)
JANEWAY: Tuvok, do you know where you are?
TUVOK: (laughs) Of course I know where I am, Captain. I'm just not sure I know who I am.
EMH: Try to relax. The treatment still has about three minutes to go.
TUVOK: Oh, it must be working, because I feel very strong. Very powerful. Quite euphoric. This must be how my ancestors felt. Doctor, would you consider allowing me to remain this way for a while? It would be a valuable opportunity for me to study primal Vulcan behaviour.
EMH: Sorry, I'm not prepared to do that. The course of treatment is very specific.
TUVOK: You are not invulnerable, hologram. A few well chosen commands to the computer and you will cease to exist.
(Tuvok throws a wheelchair at the forcefield.)
KES: Two minutes, thirty seconds left.
TUVOK: You look shocked, Captain. You must be asking yourself, what if this doesn't work? What do we do then? I have an idea. I'll just stay in my quarters for the rest of the trip. I'll just relax and read, eat the ship's food, use the ship's energy, all in the comforts of my own room. Why, even Mister Suder and I could get together for a few hands of Cardassian pinochle once or twice a week. That is how we treat violent offenders on this ship, isn't it?
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Gul Sengosts
Guest
Death Wish
I like Tuvok, but the thing about Tuvok is, you can't really develop him much. He's a 100 year old Vulcan with average Vulcan personality. All you can really do with that established starting point is make him the straight man in the comic duo.
Other ways to make him deviate from that would be to make him more emotional than the average Vulcan or to have him apply the logic to rationalize deviating more from Starfleet principles in the particular of their situation. Or have a really particular performance that applies his logicness in a very stylized way.
Other ways to make him deviate from that would be to make him more emotional than the average Vulcan or to have him apply the logic to rationalize deviating more from Starfleet principles in the particular of their situation. Or have a really particular performance that applies his logicness in a very stylized way.
Krena, I'm not sure why you are talking about Seven of Nine with such disrespect, in such a misogynistic tone. It would so ignorant of me to start disparaging a male character becasue he has a penis. Yeah, so they put Seven in a cat suit, it's not her fault, it's the fault of the male producers who came up with idea and made her wear it. One produce even complained that Seven was in a borg costume...he wanted to get her out of the borg costume and into a cat suit. This is not the fault of Jeri Ryan, this is the fault of the male producer who viewed her as a sex object. It is pretty ignorant to for a viewer disparage the women who are only used as sex objects becasue the men holding the power on the show want to use them that way. Jerri Ryan HATED the catsuit. (All the women hat the catsuit. Troi hated it as well.) What is it about Star Trek that appeals to you? Do you understand the philosophy behind the show? And the Borg story line was awesome. That story line probably kept the show on the air for a few extra years.
What did you say again? I didn't hear you under all that virtue signaling.
BTW, LOL at someone condescending to me about the history/philosophy of the show, not realizing that sexual objectification is a problem that's gone hand and hand since the very beginning, right up to scenes Jolene Blalock in her tank top. In fact, it wouldn't be Star Trek if there wasn't at least one hot "space babe" that could get away with being scantily clad as long as she's "alien"/"different" (because if she were human, the character would be justifiably seen as just being the sexist eye candy that she is):
Female characters have always been shamelessly objectified for the most obvious reasons on Star Trek going back to the beginning, so why pretend that Seven of Nine wasn't just one of them? Why pretend that her assets being exploited weren't just as important to her character as everything else and that this isn't a large part of the reason why she was added to the show? And then turn around and call someone a misogynist for pointing out that fact?
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He had at least a couple of instances when he got to show some range , e.g.Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy & Endgame, but a This Side of Paradise style ep might have been nice...
Yes, I think I am saying it is "virtuous" if we evolve to seeing women as more than sexual objects. I really didn't get from your original post that you were pointing out that "female characters have always been shamelessly objectified."What did you say again? I didn't hear you under all that virtue signaling.
BTW, LOL at someone condescending to me about the history/philosophy of the show, not realizing that sexual objectification is a problem that's gone hand and hand since the very beginning, right up to scenes Jolene Blalock in her tank top. In fact, it wouldn't be Star Trek if there wasn't at least one hot "space babe" that could get away with being scantily clad as long as she's "alien"/"different" (because if she were human, the character would be justifiably seen as just being the sexist eye candy that she is):
Female characters have always been shamelessly objectified for the most obvious reasons on Star Trek going back to the beginning, so why pretend that Seven of Nine wasn't just one of them? Why pretend that her assets being exploited weren't just as important to her character as everything else and that this isn't a large part of the reason why she was added to the show? And then turn around and call someone a misogynist for pointing out that fact?
What did you say again? I didn't hear you under all that virtue signaling.
BTW, LOL at someone condescending to me about the history/philosophy of the show, not realizing that sexual objectification is a problem that's gone hand and hand since the very beginning, right up to scenes Jolene Blalock in her tank top. In fact, it wouldn't be Star Trek if there wasn't at least one hot "space babe" that could get away with being scantily clad as long as she's "alien"/"different" (because if she were human, the character would be justifiably seen as just being the sexist eye candy that she is):
Female characters have always been shamelessly objectified for the most obvious reasons on Star Trek going back to the beginning, so why pretend that Seven of Nine wasn't just one of them? Why pretend that her assets being exploited weren't just as important to her character as everything else and that this isn't a large part of the reason why she was added to the show? And then turn around and call someone a misogynist for pointing out that fact?
Yes, I think I am saying it is "virtuous" if we evolve to seeing women as more than sexual objects. I really didn't get from your original post that you were pointing out that "female characters have always been shamelessly objectified."
When I read, "Tuvok got shafted because of Seven of Boobs. It was very clear at some point that he was going to be Captain Janeway's best friend and closest confidante, like Spock was to Kirk. But then Boobarella showed up," it came across as a disrespectful way to say, "I think Tuvok's relationship with Janeway was not developed as was originally planned because they introduced Jerri Ryan's character. I don't think we will see eye to eye, so no need to hash it out.
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marlboro
Guest
Are there any Trek books that focus on Tuvok?
A Pocket full of Lies by Kisten Beyer features Tuvok. But it is part of the relaunch and not standt-alone. And Tuvok is....
aboard Titan now. If you are interested in Tuvok's fate, read the Titan novels.
Ah, the familiar refrain of those who know they're on the wrong side of the argument, and indeed history, but are desperate to pretend otherwise.
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