That's what I think. Tuvix best and likely only chance of survival is to stay away from anything StarFleet or even Federation. Who knows how far a vindictive frustrated, scheming Janeway can reach. In fact, he should have put her on a shuttle, passed warp 10 (by remote control), and left her lizard self on some secret planet...
Tuvix Episode Revisited
- Thread starter Robert Leva
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That's what I think. Tuvix best and likely only chance of survival is to stay away from anything StarFleet or even Federation. Who knows how far a vindictive frustrated, scheming Janeway can reach. In fact, he should have put her on a shuttle, passed warp 10 (by remote control), and left her lizard self on some secret planet...
They say the devil is afraid of her.
That was different because it was the split of one person and a re-joining afterward. Evil Kirk was acting irrationally and with paranoia, not realizing or accepting that he needed his other half to live. Afterward it was clear that "evil Kirk" was still alive and well inside him based on comments Kirk made, but now he was tempered by his good half.
That's not what I would call poetic justice, because in your scenario innocent Tuvix dies along with innocent Tuvok and Neelix. If poetic justice is what you want, how about somehow the transporter beam instead locks on to Kim and Janeway at the end, and Tuvix remains in tact, and then out comes "Kimway". Except the difference here is that unlike Tuvix, Hathryn Kimway would find his/her existence almost immediately completely unbearable and commit suicide with a phaser shot to his/her own head the first chance he/she gets.
Except the difference here is that unlike Tuvix, Hathryn Kimway would find his/her existence almost immediately completely unbearable and commit suicide with a phaser shot to his/her own head the first chance he/she gets.
But gets sent back, as just herself. After she hurt his feelings by telling him to go back to hell, Death always kicks Janeway out as soon as she arrives.
Harry, however, gets sucked into his mystical matrix and gets served up as Ensign Meatloaf.
It would have been tragic irony, and Janeway's undoing.
It should have happened, really, now that someone's brought it up. Would have elevated the whole storyline immeasurably.
Could make for an interesting fan-fiction...but not one I'll be writing.
Maybe it would have led to Janeway actually paying more attention to Chakotay's counsel...not necessarily because of anything he did in the episode (I honestly don't remember him playing much of a role in the episode, which is unfortunate), but because she no longer considered her own judgment so unimpeachable.
Maybe it would have led to Janeway actually paying more attention to Chakotay's counsel...not necessarily because of anything he did in the episode (I honestly don't remember him playing much of a role in the episode, which is unfortunate), but because she no longer considered her own judgment so unimpeachable.
There are so many wonderful "what ifs" in Tuvix. I've explored three in assorted fanfictions: "Tuvix's Revenge" and "Roads Not Taken" (still in progress), bit there are other places to go...
* What if Chakotay or other crew had advocated for Tuvix's right to exist? What if it came to blows?
* What if Janeway had allowed a hearing instead of just playing judge, jury, and executioner? Measure of a Man 2.0, anyone?
* What if the EMH had destroyed the radioisotope and erased the memory of its creation from his matrix?
* What if Neelix died, leaving Kes to agonize over pushing Janeway to her decision?
* What if... ???????
* What if Chakotay or other crew had advocated for Tuvix's right to exist? What if it came to blows?
* What if Janeway had allowed a hearing instead of just playing judge, jury, and executioner? Measure of a Man 2.0, anyone?
* What if the EMH had destroyed the radioisotope and erased the memory of its creation from his matrix?
* What if Neelix died, leaving Kes to agonize over pushing Janeway to her decision?
* What if... ???????
It does seem unusual that Janeway's allowed to make this decision solely on her own prerogative, especially given that she explicitly disregards counsel from her CMO on a medical matter.
I daresay The Doctor's refusal to perform the procedure is one of his finest moments in the franchise.
I daresay The Doctor's refusal to perform the procedure is one of his finest moments in the franchise.
I did love it too, at the time.
However... Remember what Zimmerman said...
Was this the ethical subroutine, or was this a social subroutine to create debate and vim in the crew?
Here's what he said: "I'm sorry, captain, but I cannot perform the surgical separation. I am a physician, and a physician must do no harm. I will not take Mr. Tuvix's life against his will."
That's not social conflict, it's medical ethics, primum non nocere (first do no harm), dating back to at least the third century BC.
That's not social conflict, it's medical ethics, primum non nocere (first do no harm), dating back to at least the third century BC.
^ The question then becomes is how was everyone else fine with it? The Doctor was the lone voice of reason/basic human compassion? Paris just stared at Tuvix on the bridge like Tuvix was some sort of leper or mental patient who was just confused and in need of help, like after he was separated back into Neelix and Tuvok everything was going to be okay so he should just calm down and relax.
What if the solution wasn't found until like 3 years later, and in that time Tuvix gets married and has children, would they all do the same thing to him on the bridge? How much time needs to pass before they value his life and personal choice to not end his existence?
What if the solution wasn't found until like 3 years later, and in that time Tuvix gets married and has children, would they all do the same thing to him on the bridge? How much time needs to pass before they value his life and personal choice to not end his existence?
Kathryn Janeway is basically a cult leader. If she told her crew to march nude out an airlock, they'd line up in alphabetical order and do it.
Less than three years, I think.
He invented the procedure, and mixed the hypo. You can argue that he didn't know that he was doing harm untill after he had invented the procedure, but he sure as fuck knew Tuvix did not want to be harmed after he mixed up the cure and filled up the hypo, or more likely replicated a hypo preloaded with the cure.
The Doctor knew the cure was wrong for hours, and instead of flushing the cure down the toilet, he said "this is wrong" and then gave Kathryn the option of doing a wrong thing or being a dick while pretending that she's doing a good thing.
The Doctor knew that Janeway was going to ignore him, because she is stolid.
This is entertainment.
Public debate.
Is the Captain right or wrong?
If you don't create intruige and spectacle now and then, then citizens start getting bored, crazy or suicidal.
I cannot find either of these fanfictions on Fanfiction.net. Are they on Archive of Our Own? Did you write them?
Here is a link to a fanfiction where a way to keep all three of them is found. It's called His Fathers' Son by Jamelia116. It's part 1 of a 4 part series that explores what would it have been like if all three of them could exist.
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