Tron 3 is coming (and Garrett Hedlund is confirmed to come back)

[Captain Craig]

I hope Olivia Wilde comes back. I didn't realize so many liked Legacy, I thought everybody hated it.

Internet message boards and to some degree FB comment threads/You Tube comments are still a very anecdotal realm where if many in that realm reign hate on something the perception you walk away from is that it's hated by most not a niche group.

In the years since Terminator Salvation and IJ:Crystal Skull I've seen more people say, or come around to saying good things about it, especially the few who admitted they hated it initially. That's not to say those films, like Tron Legacy, don't still have some flaws but those flaws were magnified to the point of exaggeration and in the case at least of T:S caused some early bad WOM that likely hurt it's box office, Indy/Skull not so much, it still made $400m US domestic but you'd think it didn't based on people bashing a few things.

I really enjoyed Legacy, especially in a vacuum so far removed from the original and look forward to this next installment.

 

[Mr Light]

I love Salvation and Crystal Skull. CS isn't as good as the first three, but it's still Indy dammit.

 

[Reverend]

Salvation had it's moments but IMO fell short of being a solid action movie, Crystal Skull worked well for the most part IMO and I've always loved Tron Legacy. Such a visually unique film that took the basic concept of the original and ran with it. I just hope they can get David Warner back for the new film.

Honestly, I've never put much stock in what the majority of opinions expressed on the internet. It's a very poor metric by which to judge something's popularity or quality as the seemingly endless "I think X is over/underrated" thread so aptly attest.

 

[MacLeod]

You can also tend to have a very vocal minority who hate X. Sure Tron: Legacy had some isses, but so did Crystal Skull. I've seen better films but I've also seen worse movies.

 

[marillion]

Salvation had it's moments but IMO fell short of being a solid action movie, Crystal Skull worked well for the most part IMO and I've always loved Tron Legacy. Such a visually unique film that took the basic concept of the original and ran with it. I just hope they can get David Warner back for the new film.

Honestly, I've never put much stock in what the majority of opinions expressed on the internet. It's a very poor metric by which to judge something's popularity or quality as the seemingly endless "I think X is over/underrated" thread so aptly attest.

Totally agree... Tron Legacy has been just about the only movie I've felt was worth seeing in 3D. And while the CGI Clu/Flynn were both a little off-putting on the big screen, I've found it much less so after viewing it on Blu-Ray. Maybe it's style over substance here, but honestly, It the movie had plenty of both.

 

[Christopher]

The CGI Clu made perfect sense to me, because the character actually was a computer simulation. Like I said before, what the original film was really trying to do was to convert live performances into something that looked like it was computer-animated, but they didn't have the technology to pull it off convincingly. Ideally, everything inside the Grid should've been CGI in the sequel, including the characters. Using performance capture to create computer-animated characters would've been achieving for real what the original's filmmakers were struggling to approximate. Which is why I think they went in totally the wrong direction using as much live-action as they did, and why I think TRON: Uprising is a better continuation than Legacy.

 

[Reverend]

You can also tend to have a very vocal minority who hate X. Sure Tron: Legacy had some isses, but so did Crystal Skull. I've seen better films but I've also seen worse movies.

Whether it's about something being overrated or underrated, it's usually all derived from a skewed perception and I've often talked on this board about how meaningless those terms are.

Plus you get your usual mix of geek snobbery, people desperate to stand out from a crowd and good old fashioned "It's Popular, Now It Sucks!"

The CGI Clu made perfect sense to me, because the character actually was a computer simulation. Like I said before, what the original film was really trying to do was to convert live performances into something that looked like it was computer-animated, but they didn't have the technology to pull it off convincingly. Ideally, everything inside the Grid should've been CGI in the sequel, including the characters. Using performance capture to create computer-animated characters would've been achieving for real what the original's filmmakers were struggling to approximate. Which is why I think they went in totally the wrong direction using as much live-action as they did, and why I think TRON: Uprising is a better continuation than Legacy.

The problem with that is that at the rate CG technology is advancing, anything they do will age fairly badly (just look at any CG heavy movies from the late 90's.) Keeping the actors and some of the sets real rather than performance captured help to ground the setting and sell the idea that The Grid *is* a real world in it's own right.

Indeed when I saw it in the cinema, the way they did the 2D "real world" to 3D "computer world" transition was very effective in conveying a sense of hyper-reality, rather than the floaty unreality you get in most other modern CG heavy films. Indeed it felt very deliberately like a 21st century 'Wizard of Oz'. Can you imagine how different that movie would be if instead of going from monochrome to full colour, it instead went to hand drawn animation? A valid artistic choice to be sure, but it'd change the whole tone of the piece.

It also helps when you can anchor these physically impossible, almost abstract environments to something solid and relatable, otherwise it's just a pretty CG fest with no real depth.

 

[JD]

A couple months ago, I was playing around on Comixology and I stumbled across a Tron comic set between the original and Legacy. They also have adaptations of both movies.

 

[fireproof78]

I think Legacy is a film that works much better if you've never seen the original TRON, or if you don't watch them back-to-back. As a sequel or continuation, it totally fails. It completely reinterprets the nature of the Programs and the Grid; in the original, they were semi-magical entities that existed within computers without the knowledge of their programmers, but in the sequel they were consciously created AIs in virtual reality. It completely reinterprets Kevin Flynn; in the original, he was a capitalist out to defend his right to profit from his intellectual property and sought only to become rich, but in the sequel, he became this anti-business champion of free data. And it went in the completely opposite direction in its CGI; the original was an attempt to embrace the unreal aesthetic of early CGI and make live actors look like part of it, while the sequel was just another instance of the modern approach of making CG look as much like physical reality as possible. Also, it's much blander aesthetically, replacing the richly colorful abstractions of the original with a dingy, near-monochrome Grid. And Clu's plan to materialize a physical army for conquest made far less sense than the MCP's plan to take over the world through cyberspace, especially in this day and age when the Internet is far more ubiquitous and essential to everyday life.

So as a sequel, as a continuation of the original's ideas and aesthetics, it was a complete misfire. But it's hard for me to judge how well it works as a self-contained movie, because I made the mistake of waiting to see it until I could get a copy of the original and see them nearly back-to-back. I suppose that as a modern, FX-driven adventure/fantasy movie, it's kind of middle-of-the-road, neither really good nor really bad.

I'm of mixed opinions on this point. First of all, I enjoyed the original Tron a whole lot, and sincerely wished that they had continued it on at the time. Legacy, for all its strengths, had to bridge a 30 year gap in which technology had changed. As others have said, you may not agree with their choice, but it was one that they had to make.

That said, I think Tron: Legacy reflects a change that happened to Flynn after the whole Tron experience. Bridges even deliberately went away from the capitalist bent towards a mystic figure. As you said, Christopher, the programs in the original were semi-mystical, so the idea that Flynn was changed by the experience really provides a different outlook on the character.

In addition, he and Tron set out to deliberately change the Grid. It wasn't just a tool for users anymore. It was a world that Flynn recognized needed as much nurturing as any other project would require.

The new Grid reflects a change of attitude, both in terms of real world production design, and in-universe character change.

That being said, CLU's plan seems patently silly in light of the other ways that the program could manipulate the world. Perhaps a better idea would be to create a portal of sorts that allows more access to all the computers in the world. Maybe Flynn had deliberate cut off the Grid, or CLU's portion, to prevent the program's influence from spreading.

Regardless, I agree that Tron:Legacy is definitely a middle of the road film. I enjoyed it immensely, but certainly it could have been better.

 

[Christopher]

I'm of mixed opinions on this point. First of all, I enjoyed the original Tron a whole lot, and sincerely wished that they had continued it on at the time.

Well, maybe not at the time, since the reason the film didn't really succeed was because its ambitions exceeded what was technically possible at the time. But maybe 10 years later, say, when CGI had advanced somewhat more while still having some of that early unreal flavor.

Legacy, for all its strengths, had to bridge a 30 year gap in which technology had changed. As others have said, you may not agree with their choice, but it was one that they had to make.

Which is why I think it might've worked better not to watch them back to back, since that just throws the differences into relief.

That said, I think Tron: Legacy reflects a change that happened to Flynn after the whole Tron experience. Bridges even deliberately went away from the capitalist bent towards a mystic figure. As you said, Christopher, the programs in the original were semi-mystical, so the idea that Flynn was changed by the experience really provides a different outlook on the character.

That might work if not for the epilogue of the original, with Flynn ensconced as a happy billionaire flying around in helicopters. It sure didn't look to me like his original, profit-driven priorities had changed in the weeks or months that presumably passed between the Grid and the final scene.

In addition, he and Tron set out to deliberately change the Grid. It wasn't just a tool for users anymore. It was a world that Flynn recognized needed as much nurturing as any other project would require.

The new Grid reflects a change of attitude, both in terms of real world production design, and in-universe character change.

Sure, and within the context of how Legacy interprets things, that makes sense. But it's not what the makers of the original had in mind. It's not really the same universe they created or would've chosen to explore in sequels at the time. It's a slightly variant universe that incorporates the approximate events of the original but reinterprets them through modern sensibilities.

That being said, CLU's plan seems patently silly in light of the other ways that the program could manipulate the world. Perhaps a better idea would be to create a portal of sorts that allows more access to all the computers in the world. Maybe Flynn had deliberate cut off the Grid, or CLU's portion, to prevent the program's influence from spreading.

Isn't that basically the plot of Reboot? Megabyte was trapped in Mainframe and wanted to find a way to open a portal to the Supercomputer so he could infect systems throughout the world.

 

[DWF]

The original Tron was a reworking of The Wizard Of Oz, Tron Legacy tried to reflect a more modern take on AI, but Quorra was just as magical as many of the problems in the first movie. Legacy isn't as visually interesting as the first one when it came out, but that was a matter of how creative the movieewas visually. It will be interesting to see just where they take the storyline. And I hoped they can get Olivia Wilde back.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm of mixed opinions on this point. First of all, I enjoyed the original Tron a whole lot, and sincerely wished that they had continued it on at the time.

Well, maybe not at the time, since the reason the film didn't really succeed was because its ambitions exceeded what was technically possible at the time. But maybe 10 years later, say, when CGI had advanced somewhat more while still having some of that early unreal flavor.

Legacy, for all its strengths, had to bridge a 30 year gap in which technology had changed. As others have said, you may not agree with their choice, but it was one that they had to make.

Which is why I think it might've worked better not to watch them back to back, since that just throws the differences into relief.




That might work if not for the epilogue of the original, with Flynn ensconced as a happy billionaire flying around in helicopters. It sure didn't look to me like his original, profit-driven priorities had changed in the weeks or months that presumably passed between the Grid and the final scene.

In addition, he and Tron set out to deliberately change the Grid. It wasn't just a tool for users anymore. It was a world that Flynn recognized needed as much nurturing as any other project would require.

The new Grid reflects a change of attitude, both in terms of real world production design, and in-universe character change.

Sure, and within the context of how Legacy interprets things, that makes sense. But it's not what the makers of the original had in mind. It's not really the same universe they created or would've chosen to explore in sequels at the time. It's a slightly variant universe that incorporates the approximate events of the original but reinterprets them through modern sensibilities.

That being said, CLU's plan seems patently silly in light of the other ways that the program could manipulate the world. Perhaps a better idea would be to create a portal of sorts that allows more access to all the computers in the world. Maybe Flynn had deliberate cut off the Grid, or CLU's portion, to prevent the program's influence from spreading.

Isn't that basically the plot of Reboot? Megabyte was trapped in Mainframe and wanted to find a way to open a portal to the Supercomputer so he could infect systems throughout the world.

I'll admit to not watching either the original Tron or Reboot in a while, so I can't remember

I personally wish that Legacy had followed Tron more, rather than Flynn, but that is because I played the Mattel games over and over again.

Some aspects of the original intention of Tron seemed kind of blended together with mysticism, as well as business model of computers. Again, having not seen the film when it first came out (too young) my frame of reference is definitely informed by later discussions. I can't find the reference but I seem to recall reading an article that Tron's story was partially inspired by the story of Jesus Christ, but I could be misremembering.

So, I'll concede that I'm uncertain what the original intent was, mostly because I kind just had fun with it, both with the film and the video games. So, I welcome your point of view

 

[Christopher]

I'll admit to not watching either the original Tron or Reboot in a while, so I can't remember

I happened to watch ReBoot not that long ago. I'd never seen the last two seasons, and I'd heard they were more sophisticated than the ones I'd seen. I'd heard right (my review).

I personally wish that Legacy had followed Tron more, rather than Flynn, but that is because I played the Mattel games over and over again.

I would've preferred that too, but mainly because I like Bruce Boxleitner (though more from Scarecrow and Mrs. King and TRON itself than from Babylon 5). And he really has a fantastically rich voice these days. Fortunately, he was a regular in TRON: Uprising.

 

[fireproof78]

I'll admit to not watching either the original Tron or Reboot in a while, so I can't remember

I happened to watch Reboot not that long ago. I'd never seen the last two seasons, and I'd heard they were more sophisticated than the ones I'd seen. I'd heard right (my review).

I personally wish that Legacy had followed Tron more, rather than Flynn, but that is because I played the Mattel games over and over again.

I would've preferred that too, but mainly because I like Bruce Boxleitner (though more from Scarecrow and Mrs. King and TRON itself than from Babylon 5). And he really has a fantastically rich voice these days. Fortunately, he was a regular in TRON: Uprising.

Thank you for sharing your review
I'm not really inclined to watch it again, mostly because the animation was kind of off putting for me to begin with (and that was when I was 10...picky, picky ). But, I might give it a try.

As for Tron, I think it would have been more interesting to have followed Tron, and watch as the world changed due to Flynn's influence. It could start out at first negative, then more positive as Flynn recognizes the impact upon the programs. His relationship could start out more father-son, though a bit distant (kind of like at the beginning of Legacy) and Tron tries to continue on despite Flynn's absence.

Again, a lot of Legacy's themes, but done more with a Tron-Flynn dynamic.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

A couple months ago, I was playing around on Comixology and I stumbled across a Tron comic set between the original and Legacy. They also have adaptations of both movies.

The link doesn't work (either you copied it wrong or the item has been removed).

 

[Christopher]

Thank you for sharing your review
I'm not really inclined to watch it again, mostly because the animation was kind of off putting for me to begin with (and that was when I was 10...picky, picky ). But, I might give it a try.

Well, as I said in my review, the animation on ReBoot improved enormously by the third and fourth seasons. In the first season, they were still experimenting with the technology, so it was very crude. But by the fourth-season movies, they were doing gorgeous work.

And as I said, I think you could just start with season 2 and get a complete experience.

 

[DWF]

Thank you for sharing your review
I'm not really inclined to watch it again, mostly because the animation was kind of off putting for me to begin with (and that was when I was 10...picky, picky ). But, I might give it a try.

Well, as I said in my review, the animation on ReBoot improved enormously by the third and fourth seasons. In the first season, they were still experimenting with the technology, so it was very crude. But by the fourth-season movies, they were doing gorgeous work.

And as I said, I think you could just start with season 2 and get a complete experience.

There were three years between seasons two and three of Reboot, enough time forthem to make two years ofthe superior War Planets.

 

[JD]

A couple months ago, I was playing around on Comixology and I stumbled across a Tron comic set between the original and Legacy. They also have adaptations of both movies.

The link doesn't work (either you copied it wrong or the item has been removed).

It still works fine for me. Maybe it's only available in the US?
It's called Tron: Betrayal, here's the description:

When programmer Kevin Flynn became the owner of the large corporation Encom, he created a virtual world known as the Grid. Flynn also created a digital alter ego named Clu to keep the system under control. But when self-generated programs begin appearing and demanding their independence, things quickly become very complicated! In addition to creating this new digital world, Flynn has also fathered a child named Sam. Can Flynn balance the demands of his virtual life with those in the real world?

 

[MacLeod]

The link worked fine for me in the UK, thought it did come up with a prompt for a redirect to the UK site.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Weird, it didn't work on my home computer, but it loaded just fine at work (which often blocks sites outright). How bizarre.

Anyways, thank you for sharing this. I hadn't heard about it.