Troi's Chair

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I'm gonna chime in and say, I given the actor they picked to play Jellico, I always assumed Jellico was meant to be an "equal" to Picard, otherwise why would he be given command of the Enterprise? It doesn't matter if Jellico's ship is smaller or older. Remember, Picard went from the Stargazer to the Enterprise-D.

I think the problem with Jellico is that Picard is a very personal and cultured gentleman who genuinely enjoyed board room meetings and wanted to know whatever everyone had to contribute. Jellico was more interested in active commanding, giving orders, and expecting people to... get it done!

 

[Tomalak]

Jellico was surprised to get the Enterprise and clearly implied that a Galaxy-class ship was a huge upgrade compared with the Cairo.

JELLICO: It caught me by surprise too. I must admit, I miss the Cairo already. But a Galaxy class ship, that's something special. I can understand why you turned down a ship of your own to remain aboard.

 

[Will_Carter]

I think the problem with Jellico is that Picard is a very personal and cultured gentleman who genuinely enjoyed board room meetings and wanted to know whatever everyone had to contribute. Jellico was more interested in active commanding, giving orders, and expecting people to... get it done!

There is 'Get it done!' and then there is the sort of bluster one does when they're utterly terrified and are of the mind that they must show strength at all times and to show strength they must bully and refuse to listen to much less heed any advice anyone has.

This is the debate that's gone on for the past thirty+ years. My stance is informed by being around people that have jelico's 'get it done' mindset and i have a very *VERY* negative view on the matter. As in I am avoiding a lot of my opinion for the sake of civility.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

There is 'Get it done!' and then there is the sort of bluster one does when they're utterly terrified and are of the mind that they must show strength at all times and to show strength they must bully and refuse to listen to much less heed any advice anyone has.

This is the debate that's gone on for the past thirty+ years. My stance is informed by being around people that have jelico's 'get it done' mindset and i have a very *VERY* negative view on the matter. As in I am avoiding a lot of my opinion for the sake of civility.

I didn't know Jellico was so hotly debated. I haven't seen "Chain of Command" since I was a kid. That's what, Season 6, I think? I've very familiar with S1-3 and the 4 movies, but S4-7, I haven't seen since I was a kid. Having fun with S4 on Blu-ray. haha Anyway, Jellico...

I don't think he's a bully, I think he's just one of those sandpaper on baby diaper rash kind of personalities. He's the kind of guy where you call in Monday saying you can't come in, because grandma just died. He pauses, says that's sad, pauses, "Can you come in tomorrow morning?" Jellico's not going out of his way to be an ass, that's just kind of his default personality. Being nice would be him "going out of the way." That said, I think our emotional reactions are more or less the same, just coming from different POV's.

If I lived in the world of Star Trek, I'd much prefer a 24th century captain such as Picard, Sisko, or Janeway over any of the "guest Captains of the week."

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

He's the kind of guy where you call in Monday saying you can't come in, because grandma just died. He pauses, says that's sad, pauses, "Can you come in tomorrow morning?"

Honestly, I'm not even sure he'd bother with the "that's sad", but YMMV.

ellico's not going out of his way to be an ass, that's just kind of his default personality. Being nice would be him "going out of the way."

Whether or not it's his default personality isn't the issue... the issue whether he's in the right and doing things in a good, effective professional way... or the complete opposite.

Jellico Stans insist that it's the former, personally I'd say the latter isn't 100% certain but there's enough grounds to validate the reservations and complaints that the other officers voice.

I'm gonna chime in and say, I given the actor they picked to play Jellico, I always assumed Jellico was meant to be an "equal" to Picard, otherwise why would he be given command of the Enterprise? It doesn't matter if Jellico's ship is smaller or older. Remember, Picard went from the Stargazer to the Enterprise-D.

Without knowing the exact ins and outs of how seniority works in Starfleet (complicated by them appointing the rank and title of Captain where only the tltle would be appointed IRL for the most part), I would agree that we can't say for certain whether they are peers or whether Picard is the senior officer, but it seems pretty clear to me that we're not meant to see Jellico as the senior officer, despite the fact that he treats Picard with a level of disrespect that we rarely saw from two or three-pip admirals.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Honestly, I'm not even sure he'd bother with the "that's sad", but YMMV.


Whether or not it's his default personality isn't the issue... the issue whether he's in the right and doing things in a good, effective professional way... or the complete opposite.

Jellico Stans insist that it's the former, personally I'd say the latter isn't 100% certain but there's enough grounds to validate the reservations and complaints that the other officers voice.



Without knowing the exact ins and outs of how seniority works in Starfleet (complicated by them appointing the rank and title of Captain where only the tltle would be appointed IRL for the most part), I would agree that we can't say for certain whether they are peers or whether Picard is the senior officer, but it seems pretty clear to me that we're not meant to see Jellico as the senior officer, despite the fact that he treats Picard with a level of disrespect that we rarely saw from two or three-pip admirals.

To summarize, I think Jellico is an equal to Picard, otherwise he wouldn't be taking command of the Ent-D, but being equal in command abilities doesn't mean easy to get along with. For all we know, his Cairo crew could be just as uptight, give no shits, "get it down" just as much as Jellico.

 

[Will_Carter]

For all we know, his Cairo crew could be just as uptight, give no shits, "get it down" just as much as Jellico.

Or just as equally the crew of the Cairo could be going 'Thank Q he's f'ing GONE.'

We don't know enough about anything not portrayed on screen to say either way. Take me and my stepdad for example. If you hear it from him I'm lazy, worthless, clueless, and 'always in outer f'ing space.'

Meanwhile I work with literally anyone else I work 'too fast,' but otherwise go until literally everything is done and then some.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Or just as equally the crew of the Cairo could be going 'Thank Q he's f'ing GONE.'

That made me smile like an idiot, thanks for that.

We don't know enough about anything not portrayed on screen to say either way. Take me and my stepdad for example. If you hear it from him I'm lazy, worthless, clueless, and 'always in outer f'ing space.'

I have a similar problem with my dad, but in that he's usually not listening to what I'm actually saying, so when he goes to recount what I said, it's just not what I said at all. (sigh) I feel you very much my fellow Trekkie dude.

Meanwhile I work with literally anyone else I work 'too fast,' but otherwise go until literally everything is done and then some.

Have you ever been like me where everyone's either too slow or too fast? People are telling me to slow down, or I feel like I have to run to keep up. (walking, not talking)

 

[Will_Carter]

Have you ever been like me where everyone's either too slow or too fast? People are telling me to slow down, or I feel like I have to run to keep up.

...OK. Seriously. Are you like. A time displaced transporter clone of me? Am I the time displaced transporter clone?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

...OK. Seriously. Are you like. A time displaced transporter clone of me? Am I the time displaced transporter clone?

It's just fun to meet people with a similar personality, way of thinking, or life experience.

 

[Takeru]

I think when people talk about Jellico they often ignore that he came on board during a big crisis that was more likely going to lead to war than not with the Enterprise and its crew being among the first casualties. He was under a lot of pressure and Riker undermining him did not help, Riker acted unprofessional not Jellico.

 

[Farscape One]

Regarding Jellico...

There's basically two types of bosses: managers and leaders. Managers just tell their people to find ways to get stuff done. Leaders inspire others who work under them.

Jellico definitely is a manager. "Get it done" and the tone he says it each time is a stark contrast to Picard's "make it so", despite both having similar meaning.

Picard is more a leader. He inspires loyalty from those under him.

Something else to note: Picard almost always referred to everyone as 'Mr.' or their rank. (Except Beverly, but there is a LOT of history there, and even then he still tended to call her 'Dr.') Jellico, from the jump, called everyone by their given name. Even 6 years into his command by this point, Picard wasn't calling everyone by their first name all the time. I find Jellico doing that right off the bat was somewhat disrespectful. For lack of a better term, Picard earned the right to call them by their first name because of their years together and what they've all gone through.

 

[Farscape One]

I think when people talk about Jellico they often ignore that he came on board during a big crisis that was more likely going to lead to war than not with the Enterprise and its crew being among the first casualties. He was under a lot of pressure and Riker undermining him did not help, Riker acted unprofessional not Jellico.

I agree that he probably was under pressure, but as an example from the episode, having 1/3 of your engineering staff moved into security after you order your chief engineer to do massive changes is neither efficient nor well thought out. At least let Geordi finish (or get close to being finished) those major changes before you throw so much of his staff into a completely different department.

Riker could have been a bit better, but Jellico certainly didn't help matters.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Jellico definitely is a manager. "Get it done" and the tone he says it each time is a stark contrast to Picard's "make it so", despite both having similar meaning.

Honestly, given his... inconsistent approach to what practical and viable (he's literally told by Data that his first order to the Engineering Department will take the entire team working 24/7 for days to accomplish, he assigns a significant of said team to Security (likely actually either Armory or Communications) and piles on several large priority tasks on top of them after that... I'm not sure I'd credit him as a particularly good manager either.

 

[Farscape One]

Honestly, given his... inconsistent approach to what practical and viable (he's literally told by Data that his first order to the Engineering Department will take the entire team working 24/7 for days to accomplish, he assigns a significant of said team to Security (likely actually either Armory or Communications) and piles on several large priority tasks on top of them after that... I'm not sure I'd credit him as a particularly good manager either.

I never credited Jellico as a good or bad manager... just simply that was his style.

While on that subject: no, I don't think he was a particularly good manager, either.

 

[Tomalak]

I find Jellico doing that right off the bat was somewhat disrespectful. For lack of a better term, Picard earned the right to call them by their first name because of their years together and what they've all gone through.

I don't think it's disrespectful per se. Knowing everyone's name is a pretty old trick at quickly winning people over.

I think he uses it as a shortcut to establishing himself - see also his first sentence to Riker being about making it clear that he's done his homework and knows Riker's service history. And therefore he knows what he's doing.

It is apparently at odds with his more disciplinarian approach, and his claim to prefer "formality" on the bridge regarding Troi's uniform. But he quickly withdraws the courtesy when Riker pisses him off.

He's basically wrapping his iron fist in a velvet glove.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

there is the sort of bluster one does when they're utterly terrified and are of the mind that they must show strength at all times and to show strength they must bully and refuse to listen to much less heed any advice anyone has.

Honestly, I never got that vibe from Jellico.

He did not strike me as the bully type. He seemed to me as a captain who was sufficiently confident and self-assured that he simply didn't need to bully. He wasn't arrogant or rude, IMHO. There's a difference between blustering - projecting the appearance of confidence where none exists - and actually HAVING confidence. Jellico, in my mind, was definitely the latter.

And again, it would have helped if we'd got the chance to view Jellico from the POV of people who actually liked him. We, as viewers, are biased, because we're used to seeing everything from the perspective of the Enterprise. And, thus, we're predisposed to hate Jellico - like I said, simply because he's not Picard. The Ent-D crew disliked Jellico because his style was so different. But what about those who are USED to that style? Who functioned better because of it?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Just chiming in: Jellico pops up in one of the streaming shows. If you want to know which one:

Spoiler: Edward Jellico's return

He has a recurring role as Admiral Jellico in Prodigy's 2nd season, and he's just as much of stiff here too.

 

[Will_Carter]

Just chiming in: Jellico pops up in one of the streaming shows. If you want to know which one:

Spoiler: Edward Jellico's return

He has a recurring role as Admiral Jellico in Prodigy's 2nd season, and he's just as much of stiff here too.

Spoiler: Prodegy Spoilers.

In absolute fairness. Dealing with those kids would have me past my last nerves too.

 

[Will_Carter]

He did not strike me as the bully type.

We are in disagreement. This is because of my lived experiances having me deal with someone that is a close mimic to Jellico.

We are going to remain in disagreement over the matter because of this.