Very few in "canon"
They showed up sporadically in comics and the like.
Troi's Chair
- Thread starter EyalM
- Start date
They showed up sporadically in comics and the like.
There were a couple of Tellarites visible amongst Federation delegates in STIV:TVH and STVI:TUC. I can't remember what their legs looked like. And over the years, some Tellarites have had human-like hands, and some have had stubby three-fingered hands that look like hooves.
Kor
Kor
The Tellarites were in three episodes of TOS/TAS, TVH & TUC, then essentially ignored until ENT. The Andorians didn’t fare much better appearing in six TOS/TAS episodes plus TMP and TVH, but at least they appeared in TNG once that I remember.
I’m glad both show up way more in the newer Trek, because as an old school 70s Trek fan I was always drawn to them. It’s odd to think now that they were never in DS9 or VOY at all.
I’m glad both show up way more in the newer Trek, because as an old school 70s Trek fan I was always drawn to them. It’s odd to think now that they were never in DS9 or VOY at all.
That's how I remember both the Tellerites and The Andorians, TOS aliens that had a few movie cameos, then forgotten until Enterprise. It's always fun to see an alien race you thought forgotten pop up in a newer show. The Xindi from Enterprise S3, they pop up in an episode of Prodigy. I got excited and busted out laughing, because it was so random and unexpected.
Oooh! TIL. Thank you.
I agree with this theory. The Galaxy Class was basically a showpiece and statement made during the 'Golden Era' of Starfleet. More to the point this ship was made to explore and extend. So how better to showcase Starfleet and the Federation were not military focused than to show that this exploratory ship had non military personnel?
I've long thought this was absolutely a part of Troi's job on the ship. She's the "ships Counsellor", which seems strange because realistically there should be... several mental health professionals on board?
Rather, while never explicitly stated, I like to take "Counsellor" as not meaning "Ships Therapist" but instead being something more akin to "Ship's Civilian Coordinator". She does tend to be involved in civilian affairs, we've seen that. I really think that is her primary job. She is ALSO a therapist and will perform that role, but she's primarily there to deal with the civilians.
Although I would argue that the civilians on board expressly DID give Starfleet permission to feed them and their children into a meat grinder by agreeing to be on board.
Yeah, it's a chair. I would think anyone from Engineering could have installed it an, for lack of better term, aftermarket item.
Agreed. I also think she's basically the HR manager too, as she conducts the crew evaluations with Riker.
But less in the current corporate sense of looking out for the company's interests. I think she's the advocate for the crew and the people on the ship.
There a bunch of civilians on the ship - barbers, waiters, teachers, botanists - so Troi may well be their main route to the captain.
But "counsellor" can also have a legal or diplomatic meaning, and we always see her involved when there is a negotiation going on. She's on hand to deal with visiting ambassadors and dignitaries.
So her role has three main strands:
- Therapist
- People advocate
- Counsel to the Captain
There is this dialogue between Jellico and Troi in "Chain of Command". It might shed some light on Troi's role.
JELLICO: I'm glad you're here. I'd like to go over the duty roster with you.
TROI: I'd be happy to. But first, I'd like to talk about how the change in command is affecting the crew.
JELLICO: I've noticed some resistance.
TROI: I wouldn't call it resistance. More like uncertainty. ...
JELLICO: I'm glad you brought this to my attention, Deanna. Unfortunately, I don't have time for a honeymoon with the crew. You've clearly given this a lot of thought, so I'd like you to take charge of the morale situation. Please see to it that they make the adjustment to the new routine quickly and easily.
(transcript from chakoteya.net)
Yes, it does appear that one of Troi's duties is to be the crew's conduit to the captain. And Troi continued to sit in "Troi's" chair during Jellico's command. I guess the Counselor position automatically meant that she was concurrently the captain's senior advisor in addition to her other roles.
I suppose a captain would have the discretion to separate the two roles if he wanted to, simply by ignoring the counselor as advisor (and having someone else sit in that chair) if he didn't have confidence in the counselor.
Getting slightly off topic, in "Chain of Command", it was curious that Jellico placed the entire burden for crew morale on Troi's shoulders.
I remember in TOS, oftentimes during a crises, Kirk would speak on the ship wide intercom to inform and/or give assurances to the crew. Kirk didn't pass the buck to someone else regarding crew morale.
JELLICO: I'm glad you're here. I'd like to go over the duty roster with you.
TROI: I'd be happy to. But first, I'd like to talk about how the change in command is affecting the crew.
JELLICO: I've noticed some resistance.
TROI: I wouldn't call it resistance. More like uncertainty. ...
JELLICO: I'm glad you brought this to my attention, Deanna. Unfortunately, I don't have time for a honeymoon with the crew. You've clearly given this a lot of thought, so I'd like you to take charge of the morale situation. Please see to it that they make the adjustment to the new routine quickly and easily.
(transcript from chakoteya.net)
Yes, it does appear that one of Troi's duties is to be the crew's conduit to the captain. And Troi continued to sit in "Troi's" chair during Jellico's command. I guess the Counselor position automatically meant that she was concurrently the captain's senior advisor in addition to her other roles.
I suppose a captain would have the discretion to separate the two roles if he wanted to, simply by ignoring the counselor as advisor (and having someone else sit in that chair) if he didn't have confidence in the counselor.
Getting slightly off topic, in "Chain of Command", it was curious that Jellico placed the entire burden for crew morale on Troi's shoulders.
I remember in TOS, oftentimes during a crises, Kirk would speak on the ship wide intercom to inform and/or give assurances to the crew. Kirk didn't pass the buck to someone else regarding crew morale.
Which is one of the reasons why I tend to assume the worst regarding some of his more ambiguous or potentially valid decisions (mostly around the engineering crew).
If he can't understand something that basic, then him screwing up or ignoring aspects of other things is fairly plausible.
If he can't understand something that basic, then him screwing up or ignoring aspects of other things is fairly plausible.
When Chain of Command aired, the prevailing view was that Jellico was the worst captain ever because he was mean to our crew.
Then there was a backlash, and certain fans online decided he was the best captain ever, because he was a hardass and didn't take any shit from the pampered Enterprise crybabies.
I feel like now we can acknowledge that he's a great character in a wonderful episode, and Ronny Cox makes him one of the most memorable guest characters on the show.
But he's not a particularly great captain. He has some good qualities, and he was right to expect the crew would follow his orders. But he was a pretty bad leader in that situation, because he never explained himself or even attempted to engender trust.
Ultimately he got pretty lucky. It would have been interesting to see how he would have reacted in a less high-pressure environment.
Then there was a backlash, and certain fans online decided he was the best captain ever, because he was a hardass and didn't take any shit from the pampered Enterprise crybabies.
I feel like now we can acknowledge that he's a great character in a wonderful episode, and Ronny Cox makes him one of the most memorable guest characters on the show.
But he's not a particularly great captain. He has some good qualities, and he was right to expect the crew would follow his orders. But he was a pretty bad leader in that situation, because he never explained himself or even attempted to engender trust.
Ultimately he got pretty lucky. It would have been interesting to see how he would have reacted in a less high-pressure environment.
Worst captain that appeared in TNG maybe (Maxwell had very different issues), I'd put Ransom and several of the captains from TOS as worse.
Yeah, I don't buy that.
That's fair.
Yeah, but to quote First Contact:
Captain Jean-Luc Picard : The crew is accustomed to following my orders.
Lily Sloane : They're probably accustomed to your orders making sense.
Jellico treated vaguely worded suggestions as absolute unquestionable orders and refused to listen to any feedback or responses that didn't agree with his predetermined agenda.
According to his fans, he doesn't need to, the Captain's word is Absolute Word of God and must give way to any and all considerations including the physical limitations of the human body.
I suspect that such an environment on the Cairo (a somewhat older design, possibly less reliable) is exactly why certain people got an inflated idea of his capabilities in the first place.
I feel dumb for not making this connection thirty years ago. This suddenly makes her position make absolute sense. Her also being a therapist is just a side position. She was there to ensure the civilian interests were kept in mind. Thank you. Now i feel stupid.
Technically speaking HR is supposed to have that view, but in reality... 'all goal no soul.'
OH BOY! I have ... O P I N I O N S ....
Kirk also wasn't dealing with a bunch of civvies on board. Picard also outright admitted fairly early on that he could end up acting like an ass so it helped to have a filter to ensure gaffs didn't cause friction. Sign ofa good captain there. As said earlier .The permission to potentially shove them into a meat grinder is assumed, but it's good someone is on the bridge ensuring their interests are taken into consideration.
I can remember little kid me being put out at Jellico just... brushing Riker off, having no thoughts on the shift rotation changes at the time because i didn't understand, and I thought Riker's sulking about really was acting like a baby about things.
Now? I still think the immediate dismissal of the XO's concerns was stupid, the shift changes and rotations just before going into a warzone was potentially disastrous, and that riker's petty nonsense at the end was exceptionally unprofessional and childish. i also think Data filling in was him trying to take on the burden that he knew others were unlikely to be able to take on. He has no emotions, and any personal discomfort is weighed against how he views other potential candidates, as example Worf, put in that position further degrading moral and performance. Basically he did the best he could and tok the hit he didn't think anyone else could.
Jelico, in my view, got exceptionally lucky. I've seen discussions where he was intentionally putting the crew on edge for the sake of presenting a scared disunified front to the Cardassians to draw them out into an exposed negociating position. Nice theory, but I don't buy it. largely because if that was the plan loop your XO and department heads in both so they can better assess if the 'planned chaos' is going too far, and to ensure that things can swap over to professional in a hurry. Jelico was bullying because he was stressed, scared, and needed to exert his authority to feel like he had some measure of control in a bad situation.
Genuinely would have been interesting to see a season of him. Say... the negotiations happened. Picard had to take time away for recovery and therapy post, y'know, BEING TORTURED. With the pressure off, Jelico now having to deal with the fact he got lucky and now he has a hostile crew on his hands that he must now work with for an extended period. Plus a chance to look at hte Cairo WITHOUT Jelico at the helm. It would be interesting to see how they react to the idea of not having him on their necks. Are they grateful? Are they the kind of crew that actually thrives in the pressure cooker enviroment Jelico puts everyone in?
....sounds like my stepdad to be blunt.
Bringing this back to Troi, she gets the most revealing line of the episode and of Jellico's character.
Riker interprets Jellico's angry impatience with Gul Lemec as confidence, but Troi rightly says that no, it's the opposite.
It's a great use of Deanna to provide insight, and allows the audience, and ultimately Riker, to understand why Jellico is acting as he is. It's not out of strength, but weakness and insecurity.
That's an important note and speaks to the fact that we really shouldn't try to view Starfleet through the same lens as a modern military. It's... not. Even outside of civilians, there are ALOT of Starfleet crew that are practically civilians with a uniform on. Starfleet ships, E-D especially, have huge science departments... those people DEFINITELY are not soldiers. You're botanists and xenolinguists and stellar cartographers.
Riker is the traditional, military-style XO who works with the crew... but Starfleet ALSO has a more HR-type role in the "Counsellor".
I feel like we even get a touch of this once Ezri shows up on DS9 as a Counsellor. She has a much less defined role than even Troi did, but she does seem be generally there to support the people of the station as a whole. She's not just a therapist, and she doesn't even seem to be under Bashir's command... despite the fact that she should probably be under Medical.
I take "Counsellor" as somewhat of a "Space Social Worker"... they are there to support the people of wherever they are stationed, which can be a fairly broad responsibility. In the context of Riker and Troi... Riker is the military XO, who ensures that the crew is operating to Starfleet standards and are executing the orders of the Captain. Troi is the voice of the people on the ship, ensuring they are treated fairly and are getting the support they need to thrive.
Counsellor has at least three different definitions:
-- "Career" (the US Navy calls them Navy Counsellors)*: Responsible for managing and advising on recruit and in-service career opportunities. We see Troi doing this in Lower Decks, but rarely otherwise.
-- "Diplomatic": IRL it's usually attached to a flag/general officer, and other commissioned officers have other designations (US: Foreign Service Officers/Specialists others nations vary).
-- "Psychological"*: Mental Health professional.
*School Guidance Counsellors include both elements of this.
Starfleet Counsellors seem to include at least the same elements as IRL SGCs and at least some (possibly at the CO's discretion) also include the third.
Yeah that sounds about right. I do think we see Troi doing quite a bit of things adjacent to #1 in a more broad sense. She's generally not specifically and formally advising recruits on career opportunities, but she does fairly often play a role in the decision making process in the careers of personnel. It's clear on the E-D that it falls on both Riker AND Troi to do things like crew evaluations.
Heh... this a total offshoot but i've always been somewhat enamored at the idea of Dark Starfleet (Terran Empire, Confederation, what have you) Troi being essentially a Commissar there to... observe the crew, and given her abilities, ensure and enforce loyalty... and she knows.
Oh it would not surprise me at all if terran empire vessels have commisars there with the authority to... enforce compliance.
I just want to chime in and say, I never disliked Jellico. He was just kind of an ass. All he had to do was work with Riker, explain that they don't have time to adjust due to the Cardassian crunch. Once that's over, Picard can take command. Should Picard be lost and Jellico remain in command, they can adjust to new leadership then. Literally, most of the conflict between Jellico and the crew could have been fixed with one conversation with Riker, but then there'd be no drama for us to get mad about.
