Worf, just repeat after me:
I'm good enough
I'm smart enough
And doggone it, people like me!
Yeah, he could do the job!
Troi As Number One.
- Thread starter Red Ranger
- Start date
Yeah, he could do the job!
^
Love it.
I've always wondered if the mighty warrior suffered from hemorrhoids and simply preferred standing, because IIRC, each of the bridge stations were interchangeable.
Love it.
I've always wondered if the mighty warrior suffered from hemorrhoids and simply preferred standing, because IIRC, each of the bridge stations were interchangeable.
^
Love it.
I've always wondered if the mighty warrior suffered from hemorrhoids and simply preferred standing, because IIRC, each of the bridge stations were interchangeable.
Well, the TNG people had a little fun with that in the ep Emissary. Worf pretends to be captain, and Riker asked him, "How did you like command?" Worf deadpanned, "Comfortable chair."
BTW, I admire those of you who know how to change the colors of the uniforms in pics. It looks like fun.
As for female first officers, it's true that in the 24th century shows, Shelby was the only female Starfleet first officer we saw. We did have Kira Nerys on DSN, but she was a Bajoran militia officer.
Red Ranger
I feel that there were too many officers on the bridge. Many of them had no real specific function. By having too many people to write stories about, the show as a whole suffered because there wasn't enough airtime and writing for their characters. Tasha Yar was a victim of too many is a crowd. I had never thought about her as Number One but it would have been interesting to have seen her in that role. She could have pulled it off. I don't think Sirtis would have fit the bill for a long haul stint as ExO. The cultural mindset of the late 80's- 90's also hurt development by introducing characters that shouldn't have belonged on the bridge (Troi sitting next to the captain). Troi should have been in her office giving treatment to the crew. She should not have been promoted above Data. He is obviously more qualified to handle an emergency situation. Another aspect was weak writing. As the show progressed, it became increasingly rigid and mundane. Many episodes also degenerated into the following categories: Let's laugh at the silly android, Let's avoid the Lt. barclay weirdo since he's weird and has cuddies, Let's preserve the prime directive and let peoples die... and go to Risa since we are so tired from being bored. Cobra
P.S... From looking at the episode lineup for this week, ither than "All Good Things" and "Datalore', it is only a selected muck of filler episodes. Why can't a network just show the episodes in order at ordinary viewing intervals?
P.S... From looking at the episode lineup for this week, ither than "All Good Things" and "Datalore', it is only a selected muck of filler episodes. Why can't a network just show the episodes in order at ordinary viewing intervals?
^Cobra: I definitely agree Data should have been promoted before Troi. That ep would've been better if it concentrated on Data taking the bridge commander test, as I found his planetside situation not very compelling. -- RR
Sirtis could easily have played Number One and would have loved it. Troi was given very little to work with but Sirtis has had some other tv roles since (Russian scientist in SG1, politician in Casualty on BBC1, and others) and she can handle a commanding presence easily, in spite of being quite short. She wouldn't have needed big hair either.
Big hair helps! I actually like how she wore her hair in Season Two, up in a bun. Talk about Bun of Steel! -- RR
-- RRRiker does WHAT? O_O It never occured to me! Screenshot please!
part of the problem with the 1st officers in all treks apart from the original series and DS9 is that they only had one job- to be first officer.
Riker and Chakotay are boring. Spock/Tpol were science officers. They had interesting jobs to do on the ship other than order the shields up. Plus as they are aliens they offer an insight in humanity from another perspective which in addition to their roles as first officer made them strong characters and always good for storytelling. Same goes for Kira- although she was just 1st officer with no other function (apart from her terrorist background).
Maybe Troi would have made a good first officer as an alien. The format has worked for Spock/Tpol and Kira (even though I hated T'pol and Enterprise stinks!) She might have added something new.
I would loved to have seen Shelby replace Riker because she was a really strong character. But I had fallen in love with the TNG cast and am happy with how the show turned out overall.
Sirits wasn't the best actress to start with. But as others have said. The writing wasn't great and her character wasn't given anything juicy. However Sirtis did develop the character and became a good solid consistent actor. And she was beautiful to look at so you can forgive any ham acting. I believe she would have risen to the challenge had she been given a better written part.
However one has to consider why Gene Roddenberry swapped the roles of Tasha and Troi between the actresses. I can't see Denise as a empath and I can't Sirtis as a security officer- maybe this was due to their acting abilities. Who knows?
Riker and Chakotay are boring. Spock/Tpol were science officers. They had interesting jobs to do on the ship other than order the shields up. Plus as they are aliens they offer an insight in humanity from another perspective which in addition to their roles as first officer made them strong characters and always good for storytelling. Same goes for Kira- although she was just 1st officer with no other function (apart from her terrorist background).
Maybe Troi would have made a good first officer as an alien. The format has worked for Spock/Tpol and Kira (even though I hated T'pol and Enterprise stinks!) She might have added something new.
I would loved to have seen Shelby replace Riker because she was a really strong character. But I had fallen in love with the TNG cast and am happy with how the show turned out overall.
Sirits wasn't the best actress to start with. But as others have said. The writing wasn't great and her character wasn't given anything juicy. However Sirtis did develop the character and became a good solid consistent actor. And she was beautiful to look at so you can forgive any ham acting. I believe she would have risen to the challenge had she been given a better written part.
However one has to consider why Gene Roddenberry swapped the roles of Tasha and Troi between the actresses. I can't see Denise as a empath and I can't Sirtis as a security officer- maybe this was due to their acting abilities. Who knows?
It really would have to have been someone else playing the first officer instead of Sirtis in this speculation of role switches, someone who could seem strong on away missions.
Well, the reason I speculated about Sirtis in a stronger written role is how well I think she did in Face of the Enemy. Given stronger material, I think she could've risen to the occasion. It also would've helped if they gave her some of Lwaxana's quirky character traits. -- RR
I've answered various posts below, but here I'll just say right off how I would have reshuffled everybody.
Captain: Picard
First Officer: Lwaxana Troi (yes, I said LWAXANA!) That would have given Majel Barrett the First Officer role she was cheated out of 20+ years before, AND it would have provided some interesting dynamics between her military outlook and her daughter's civilian outlook. The relationship with Riker was unnecessary, in my opinion.
Liaison Officer (between civilians and Starfleet): Deanna Troi
Ship's Counselor: Kate Pulaski (although we know that Guinan was the real Ship's Counselor!)
Diplomatic Advisor: Will Riker (I always thought it ludicrous that Deanna was Picard's advisor on diplomatic matters such as how to pronounce words in alien languages; this should be the job of a real diplomat.)
Science Officer: Somebody. I don't think they actually had one, did they? Maybe make Worf a Science Officer, so Yar wouldn't have to die to make Worf the Security Chief. Besides, a Klingon Security Chief was so cliche... Or keep Worf at his original position and make Data the Science Officer.
Ship's Teenager: the Vulcan cadet who was part of Wesley's Academy exam group. She could have been Dr. Selar's daughter, and filled the same role as Wesley did.
Somehow I just can't imagine Mistress Beatta in "Angel One" cozying up to Deanna in bed and complimenting her on how her tunic brings out the color of her eyes...Honestly, I don't think Frakes had the acting chops to pull off being a first officer either - but I'll grant that he did give Riker a true command presence. He was very good at that (and goodness knows he was nice to look at, right WB?). Whether Siritis could have pulled it off, I don't know - I kind of doubt it, but I think part of the reason for my doubt is the weak writing for the early episodes. I can just so easily imagine the writers really screwing this concept up, frankly. I mean, they didn't do a good job with Riker/Frakes, IMO - that's probably part (though I hope not all) of my reasons for so disliking the character.
I am, obviously, not a fan of Frakes or Riker, but in all fairness, I think the writers really messed up there. He spent an awful lot of those 7 seasons (not even counting the movies) sticking out his jaw and looking manly and resolute while saying things like "Shields up!" and also being charming to various females as they passed through the series. There were some exceptions but dang, not very many. It was boring. It followed a formula. It required almost nothing of the actor. The only character given less chance to grow and change was probably poor ol' Geordi. Could Frakes have handled a more complicated character? I don't know, but I do know that he wasn't given many opportunities to try.
"The Cage" had nothing to do with "Court-Martial." It was incorporated into the two-part episode "The Menagerie." I have the restored version of "The Cage" on VHS and it's a shame how much of Number One's character development was omitted from the two-part episode. She was a much more interesting character than we were shown in "The Menagerie."
And I should hope that Marina Sirtis could indeed play an excellent woman!
She sure could never play an excellent man...Can you imagine Susan Ivanova on a Federation starship? She'd soon have everything sorted out right!
I don't understand why people seem to hate Janeway's voice - she's a perfect double for Katherine Hepburn, who is widely considered to be one of the greatest actresses of the 20th century.
A liaison officer would have been perfect for Deanna. I gotta wonder, though - what would female business attire consist of in the 24th century? I don't think we ever actually saw such a thing.
The Riker/Troi pairing was a holdover from when the series characters were originally intended to be Will Decker and Ilia - human First Officer and exotic alien female crewmember with mysterious mental powers.
And Deanna let her hair hang down way too much. In fact, it got sloppier each season until in the movies it looked like she never even combed it! (yes, I do know what the phrase actually means
)Damn, Pulaski would have made a wonderful First Officer!Even though I do not like Pulaski (as a doctor), she would have had least made a good officer as Number One oe even a Captain. She at least appeared to be confidant, a short of Margaret Thatcher of the 23rd Centuary
Did you notice in "Encounter at Farpoint" when Picard ordered Battle Stations, Troi immediately bent over her console and acted like she was actually doing something related to "battle stations"? It looked so phony...
"Doctor" Riker's body language just screams untrustworthiness. I wouldn't go near him if he were the last counselor or doctor in the entire Federation!
Worf, just repeat after me:
I'm good enough
I'm smart enough
And doggone it, people like me!
Big hair was common in the '80s, though.
Kira was a liaison officer between Starfleet and Bajor, as well. Plus, her character provided a religious perspective (re the Prophets) from the point of view of an ordinary Bajoran's faith, rather than the "official" view of a Kai or Vedek.
Keep in mind Data was still above Troi in the chain of command, same with Drs. Crusher and Pulaski who were both full commanders, but were still technically under Data in his position of Second Officer
She may have joked with him about "outranking him now", but if Picard and Riker were suddenly vaporized, command of the ship would still fall to Data.
I'm torn on this, while it's impressive to see the first officer able to multi-task, on a (psuedo)military ship of any size it really doesn't make any sense. In fact, a ship the size of a Galaxy class should have also had a dedicated second officer (as seen in Conundrum with MacDuff as First officer and Riker as second). The day to day duties of a first officer would be much too involved for anyone other than Spock or T'Pol to really handle well (in addition to science officer duties). The problem with folks like Riker/Kira/Chakotay being "boring" as *just* first officers was that the writers apparently didn't do enough research to make them and their normal functions interesting enough. Otherwise, I always liked having a separate XO, without any other duties (in my mind I call them "standing" first officers).
Back to the main topic, no I don't think Sirtis could have pulled it off. She hit some pretty good notes over the series' run, but not enough to play first officer.
However, the character of Deanna Troi as a tight-laced, cards played close to the chest type of first officer definitely could have been interesting. Especially with a mother like Lwaxana Troi (played as we saw her played by Majel). It was one thing to see the touch-feely counselor cringe whenever Lwaxana came aboard, but it would have been much more interesting to see a hard-nosed XO dealing with her.
Really comes down to how the character is written, Sirtis was capable. Think of her character as Lt. Commander Elizabeth Shelby from BoBW, different name of course, have Sirtis play it as a straight greek officer, no Betazed in the mix. Not a cold as ice first officer, keep Rikers friendly nature, fun loving side and have her be a professional first officer too. A well rounded individual. If you make her too hard, she becomes a cliché stereo type.
Sirtis is an actor. She could've played the First Officers as well as anyone else. Many ways exist display a command presence beyond bluster and bravado. We make a mistake by confusing Troi with Sirtis. Presumably, capable writers would have give First Officer Troi an appropriate personality.
That said, I never understood why a ship's counselor spent so much time on the bridge. Didn't Troi have officer hours to see clients? If Picard needed her on the bridge to provide empathic insights about the odd alien, he could summon her.
That said, I never understood why a ship's counselor spent so much time on the bridge. Didn't Troi have officer hours to see clients? If Picard needed her on the bridge to provide empathic insights about the odd alien, he could summon her.
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