Trill and Sexual Orientation in Star Trek

[Jedman67]

TNG introduced the Trill as a one-off guest alien. DS9 effectively retconned the entire concept of the Trill; so I wouldn't take anything from The Host as having any long term consequences.
I would assume that without evidence to the contrary, most Trill fall into the same sexual orientation categories that would theoretically exist 400 years in the future: Heterosexual, Homosexual and everything in between. Individuals would be inclined to one orientation or another, and as mentioned upthread, those who are hosts to the Trill symbiotes would likely be more "flexible" about sexuality.
As DS9 has mentioned on more than one occasion, there are far more symbiotes available than chosen for joining, perhaps joined symbiotes generally do not breed. IIRC, when Ezri Dax was joined, the Dax symbiote was dying and needed a host, fast - I think that symbiotes cannot survive long without a host once they are joined.

 

[DonIago]

Not being sexually attracted to another person is not a form of prejudice. It's true if the people are the opposite sex or the same sex.

As I said, part of what bothered me was the way she framed her response. Not sure why you snipped that context.

 

[Tenacity]

The actor isn't the final arbiter of the character.

that's the job of the fans.

How is she homophobiic

bev just isn't into chicks.

 

[Arpy]

It’s funny, I thought something about the ending was a little homophobic too (I’ll have to rewatch it to remember what), but IIRC, Beverly’s complaint was how quick the changes were coming and that that’s a human failing — not being able to keep up the pace. She was disturbed Odan wasn’t being more considerate of her emotions than any guess as to whether Beverly might have taken the plunge in another setting.

It’s a fine point that (given the time of the episode’s airing, especially) might not have been pondered by most long enough to recognize as much beyond a rejection of “alternate lifestyles.” Even today, it maybe needs a line or a beat or two so it’s not quite so not quite right.

 

[mlbach]

I think it wasn’t thought through completely. If it’s true the Trill were just a one off alien, that could explain why. I do remember being pissed off at the time, so much so that I called our local public radio station when they had a discussion about the episode and LGBT issues. They didn’t seem to understand what I was going on about, the general consensus was, oh isn’t it wonderful that they’re addressing the issue at all.

 

[Tim Thomason]

The actor isn't the final arbiter of the character. There's authorial intent to consider

The author is dead. Figuratively (and literally too, in this case). And the actor's insight is great and all, but it is only insight. We are the arbiters of what Sulu is and is not based on our own perceptions of his actions. What was developed for Star Trek Beyond (but not quite shown) only serves to expand our understanding of Sulu, even if it conflicts with what Roddenberry, Coon, or Takei personally felt when creating and developing the character.

And, as you said, Kelvinverse Sulu was born after 2233, and like Kelvinverse Chekov, is probably a different age and background and DNA than Prime Sulu. So the characters don't have any bearing on each other.

 

[Nakita Akita]

It’s funny, I thought something about the ending was a little homophobic too (I’ll have to rewatch it to remember what), but IIRC, Beverly’s complaint was how quick the changes were coming and that that’s a human failing — not being able to keep up the pace. She was disturbed Odan wasn’t being more considerate of her emotions than any guess as to whether Beverly might have taken the plunge in another setting.

It’s a fine point that (given the time of the episode’s airing, especially) might not have been pondered by most long enough to recognize as much beyond a rejection of “alternate lifestyles.” Even today, it maybe needs a line or a beat or two so it’s not quite so not quite right.

I think th ending was that she was trying to not come right out and say, " I'm sorry but I'm not into having a relationship like this with a woman."
Which is not being prejudiced, only truthful.

 

[Arpy]

I think th ending was that she was trying to not come right out and say, " I'm sorry but I'm not into having a relationship like this with a woman."
Which is not being prejudiced, only truthful.

It isn’t prejudiced for her to not want to have a relationship with a woman, but that is not what she said. She said the changes were too big too fast and she just couldn’t keep up. Heck, what was next? Odan changes into a Tyrannosaur? She just went though the ordeal of falling for Riker and was fried by that point. Odan didn’t seem to get that or care beyond what he (it) was feeling, so she went into self-defense mode and pulled out of the relationship.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

but that is not what she said. She said the changes were too big too fast and she just couldn’t keep up. Heck, what was next? Odan changes into a Tyrannosaur? She just went though the ordeal of falling for Riker and was fried by that point. Odan didn’t seem to get that or care beyond what he (it) was feeling, so she went into self-defense mode and pulled out of the relationship.

And how does that equate with prejudice?

 

[eschaton]

It isn’t prejudiced for her to not want to have a relationship with a woman, but that is not what she said. She said the changes were too big too fast and she just couldn’t keep up. Heck, what was next? Odan changes into a Tyrannosaur? She just went though the ordeal of falling for Riker and was fried by that point. Odan didn’t seem to get that or care beyond what he (it) was feeling, so she went into self-defense mode and pulled out of the relationship.

IIRC, she didn't say it was a problem she had, but a problem humans had. Which implied that all humans were straight (or at least, none were bi), which is really, really bad - though understandable given its time.

 

[DonIago]

Now I remember why it bothered me.

CRUSHER: Perhaps it is a human failing, but we are not accustomed to these kinds of changes. I can't keep up. How long will you have this host? What would the next one be? I can't live with that kind of uncertainty. Perhaps, someday, our ability to love won't be so limited.

Better: I'm not accustomed to these kinds of changes. I can't keep up. How long will you have this host? What would the next one be? I can't live with that kind of uncertainty. Perhaps, someday, my ability to love won't be so limited.

Frankly it comes off as Crusher trying to blame her issues with the situation on humanity at large rather than owning her shortcomings. And in the time the episode was released and given the circumstances, it does code as: I'm not going to date a woman. And frankly it kind of shortchanges the "love" she felt for Odan when she's not even willing to give it a try. I also note the lack of expressed regret.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Frankly it comes off as Crusher trying to blame her own failings on humanity at large rather than owning her shortcomings.

And she is. It's a common (bull-shit) theme in many Trek episodes: we haven't yet moved beyond the exigencies of our physical bodies. That doesn't make it prejudicial.

 

[DonIago]

Except if you were a non-heterosexual at the time the episode aired watching a series that was known for its generally boundless optimism, and that was known for being ahead of its time, then it was hurtful and disappointing. I do think it devalues Crusher's alleged love for Odan when changing genders is enough for her to Dear Jane him. I obviously don't expect her to change her sexual preference, but a hint of flexibility would have gone a long way, and I wonder whether the writers gave any real consideration to the message they were delivering. Of all the ways she could have rejected Odan, to do so in such a summary manner...Crusher's a doctor, she should be better than this.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Except if you were a non-heterosexual at the time the episode aired watching a series that was known for its generally boundless optimism, and that was known for being ahead of its time, then it was hurtful and disappointing. I do think it devalues Crusher's alleged love for Odan when changing genders is enough for her to Dear Jane him. I obviously don't expect her to change her sexual preference, but a hint of flexibility would have gone a long way, and I wonder whether the writers gave any real consideration to the message they were delivering. Of all the ways she could have rejected Odan, to do so in such a summary manner...Crusher's a doctor, she should be better than this.

Maybe it is a human shortcoming.
We didn't see any of the characters dating one sex then in another episode dating the different sex.
Attraction isn't a lightbulb.
I'll never be turned on by a woman. I do not nor ever have found women attractive on a sexual level.
The vast majority of humans are heterosexual. That is a fact.
It's been this way for several thousand years, I don't know if 400 more will change that.
I think she was trying to let Odan down nicely.
Instead of jumping up from her chair and saying, " are you frickn nuts? I'm not going to have Sex. With a woman! You need to leave now!"
But what she said was the truth.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Except if you were a non-heterosexual at the time the episode aired watching a series that was known for its generally boundless optimism, and that was known for being ahead of its time, then it was hurtful and disappointing.

I'm sure people were looking for a statement that affirmed same-sex relationships. However, Crusher saying that she could love Odan regardless of their respective genders and sexual preferences starts to make sexuality look like a choice, which is dangerous.

 

[DonIago]

...or just indicates that she was bisexual the whole time. It's not as though her preferences were relevant prior to the episode.

 

[DonIago]

Maybe it is a human shortcoming.
We didn't see any of the characters dating one sex then in another episode dating the different sex.
Attraction isn't a lightbulb.
I'll never be turned on by a woman. I do not nor ever have found women attractive on a sexual level.
The vast majority of humans are heterosexual. That is a fact.
It's been this way for several thousand years, I don't know if 400 more will change that.
I think she was trying to let Odan down nicely.
Instead of jumping up from her chair and saying, " are you frickn nuts? I'm not going to have Sex. With a woman! You need to leave now!"
But what she said was the truth.

But there are people who would be comfortable dating members of both sexes within the timespan of the episode (in-universe, I mean...though there are probably some people who'd do it in the span of 40+ minutes too ).

I doubt I'll ever be turned on by a woman myself (though I'm open to the possibility). But if I loved a man who became transgender (my apologies if I'm using incorrect terminology here), I'd like to think I might at least be willing to try...though I could be wrong too. I've never been in a reciprocated love situation, so I'm not qualified to say.

If she was trying to let Odan down nicely (and I agree that she probably was), I don't feel as though she really succeeded. Though I suppose it's at least more honest than "I'll call you sometime!"

 

[Nakita Akita]

What's your sub-Space number?
I'll call you later.

 

[DonIago]

Maybe we can quantum entangle again sometime in the future...

 

[Timo]

Anyway, for all we know both Sulus are bisexual, or one is straight while the other is not. Who cares? And is it not just a bit offensive to assume someone's orientation without hearing it from them directly?

Indeed, what we see in ST:B is just Sulu hugging a guy who has a young girl tagging along.

Who are these people? A family friend with his daughter? A fellow pedophile with the evening's entertainment? A neighbor who kept good care of Sulu's daughter while daddy was away?

Why the hug? For consoling Sulu at the news of the death of his wife? For consoling the man at the news of the death of his husband? Just because hugs are nice?

Assuming is natural - the world of humans could not function if we didn't assume. And prejudices tend to be statistically significant facts. But nature and facts need not stand in the way of politeness. Or of nice hugs.

Timo Saloniemi