They'd still be way too huge. A rocky planetoid would have to be at least 900-1000 kilometers across to be spherical. So the largest domes would have to be something like 50 km (30 miles) across, at minimum.
Trekmovie photos of Memory Alpha
- Thread starter RAMA
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I don't think that would be any engineering problem as such; surely one could build domes thousands of kilometers across in such benign conditions, with little gravity but what one brings along, with absence of weather, with reinforcing techniques that can hold starships together. Federation engineers should also be perfectly able to build a hollow, balloonlike planet thousands of kilometers across to fake the naked eye. It's more a question of who would need to do such structures.
Cities under hundred-klick domes? Well, yeah, quite possibly. But why build seven superdomes and five hyperdomes for an apparent total population of five people? Memory Alpha was supposed to be online already, with the heroes only bringing some new equipment to replace older models. Granted that Spock said the population of the station would be in flux, depending on how the scholars came and went; but it shouldn't fluctuate between five and fifty thousand.
Or perhaps the Zetarians did kill fifty thousand people, and our heroes merely had time and interest to study and discuss the fates of five - of whom 20% were still alive when the heroes arrived, and perhaps might have been saved.
Timo Saloniemi
^^The ship's sensors showed no life readings. They could've overlooked one faint life sign, but not 10,000. Also, the odds that they'd just happen to beam down to the one place where the survivor was are quite low.
And yes, that was my objection -- not that it was an impossible engineering feat (heck, I don't think there are nearly enough megastructures in Trek), but that it was more monumental than was called for by this particular facility.
Bottom line, it was a flawed design on the part of the TOS-R people. They could've shown, say, one shot of the planetoid with a tiny pentagonal shape on its surface, and then shown a closer-up establishing shot where we saw the complex more clearly.
And yes, that was my objection -- not that it was an impossible engineering feat (heck, I don't think there are nearly enough megastructures in Trek), but that it was more monumental than was called for by this particular facility.
Bottom line, it was a flawed design on the part of the TOS-R people. They could've shown, say, one shot of the planetoid with a tiny pentagonal shape on its surface, and then shown a closer-up establishing shot where we saw the complex more clearly.
Reminds me of the latest Doctor Who story where (without spoilers) there's an entire planet devoted to a library with only a few people present at any one time to view the records there.
Perhaps Memory Alpha is one big book depository, full physical artefacts such as books, scrolls etc. Maybe there's equipment for reading old storage units where books aren't available (betamax being the only format to survive WWIII, most 20th century Earth history is limited to porn
)
Perhaps Memory Alpha is one big book depository, full physical artefacts such as books, scrolls etc. Maybe there's equipment for reading old storage units where books aren't available (betamax being the only format to survive WWIII, most 20th century Earth history is limited to porn
)Perhaps Memory Alpha's primary defense is the fact that, due to "forced-perspective" trickery, aggressors mistake the facility for one that is hundreds of kilometers across, and the planetoid for one that spans thousands, and as the result set their sights incorrectly?
Seriously, I can buy the concept of Memory Alpha as an easy access point to information - abstract information that can be copied. There shouldn't be any physical artifacts there, in intolerable jeopardy, or anything that wasn't backed up elsewhere, but it would indeed make sense to collate copies of information into one distribution point, at least in a scifi scenario that didn't predict the internet.
Spock would then lament the loss to Federation science when the distribution mechanism was thrown into chaos, but no actual documentation would be lost - the "irretrievable" loss would be that of years upon years of indexing work, and possibly years upon years of planned research that would now have to come to a temporary halt. And soon enough, the facility would be back up again, providing UFP knowledge to those species that are too suspicious or primitive or alien to interface directly with UFP datanets.
Timo Saloniemi
Seriously, I can buy the concept of Memory Alpha as an easy access point to information - abstract information that can be copied. There shouldn't be any physical artifacts there, in intolerable jeopardy, or anything that wasn't backed up elsewhere, but it would indeed make sense to collate copies of information into one distribution point, at least in a scifi scenario that didn't predict the internet.
Spock would then lament the loss to Federation science when the distribution mechanism was thrown into chaos, but no actual documentation would be lost - the "irretrievable" loss would be that of years upon years of indexing work, and possibly years upon years of planned research that would now have to come to a temporary halt. And soon enough, the facility would be back up again, providing UFP knowledge to those species that are too suspicious or primitive or alien to interface directly with UFP datanets.
Timo Saloniemi
I saw it as a parallel to the Library of Alexandria, it contained copies of every scroll possible in the world. These copies could be original copies, kept as such so that every scrap of information or context could be appreciated by those studying it.
Memory Alpha, possibly the only good thing to come from this mess of an episode. I really don't mind those domes being gigantic, I always imagined it as a series of large complexes that spanned most of the planet. I particularly liked the the idea of storing history in one place, just as long as there's a backup somewhere. But to find knowledge at one's fingertips like that is a brilliant idea.
Not necessarily, 4 Vesta and Ceres are both between 500-900 km and are roughly spherical.
RAMA
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Not practical in this case. While most original copies should be at their original locations, digital copies/records/holograms would be accurate enough for physical representations.
Also, even with a subspace "internet", it would still make sense to have one place as a repository for information. This makes sense for security as well as possible communication issues.
RAMA
No, Ceres is 950 km in diameter; it's also about 16-26% water ice. I made a point of specifying rocky planetoids because ice-rich bodies (which are far more abundant in the Solar System overall) can gravitationally relax into a spheroidal shape with a smaller mass (and diameter) than rocky bodies can. And the Memory Alpha-Remastered planetoid is obviously a rocky body rather than an icy one.
As for Vesta, I said "spherical," not "approximately spheroidal." As you can see in these Hubble videos of its rotation, Vesta could never be mistaken for a perfect sphere like the MA-R planetoid. It's more like a lumpy potato or something.
Well 900-950km, what's 30 miles between planetoids?
I don't have a problem with a roughly spherical planetoid being converted into a spherical one for construction purposes. I always considered Memory Alpha to be a great construction feat that we hadn't really seen. We also do NOT know how much ice its made out of, so I wouldn't say it doesn't have any. Either way its not a serious scientific "error" for the show.
RAMA
Maybe it is but it's covered in a lot of dust. Or maybe it's made out of Fudgesicle. That would certainly explain the abnormally large structures. They're actually fudge packing plants.
Oh god, I can't believe I just went there.
It's obvious from the surface appearance that it's not an icy body. Naturally any differentiated body composed of rock and ice would have the ice on the surface, because it's less dense than the rock. We've seen plenty of ice-surfaced bodies in detail, namely the moons of Jupiter and Saturn. The MA-R planetoid looks nothing like those; indeed, as stated, it doesn't even look like the surfaces of small asteroids that have been imaged up close, but instead is modelled on the surface features of Mars. Anything that looks like that would have to be a large rocky body, either a large dwarf planet or a small planet.
Ah sorry, my apologies.
I've never been to Memory Alpha myself, not having access to time travel and warp drive and the fact that it's completely made up
Lesson learned, these threads aren't for fun, I'll try not to participate in future
By the looks of it, the surface could be 100% ice, with the rifts denoting the edges of ice masses, perhaps due to tidal pull from whatever world the 'roid is circling. Not all that different from the surface, of, say, Europa. That wouldn't bode well for the station, though - nor would the numerous supposedly recent impact craters on the ice!
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Then why is it rust-brown in color? If it were ice coated in some kind of infalling dust, then some of those chasms would be showing the color of the ice strata underneath. Also, the shapes of those chasms aren't consistent with the Europa-like tidal effects you're describing.
It looks sorta like the color of ... a lamb chop.
Ah sorry, my apologies.
I've never been to Memory Alpha myself, not having access to time travel and warp drive and the fact that it's completely made up
Lesson learned, these threads aren't for fun, I'll try not to participate in future
No my apologies. I didn't mean to "shut you down". This is definitely meant to be fun! I was thinking through the ramifications as I wrote the post and probably wrote it a little too authoritatively.
RAMA
There's no indication Memory Alpha orbits a larger planetary body. If it does and if it's largely ice, then some of those features could be from tidal forces.
However, the image argues against the planetoid being an icy body. Look at images of Ganymede and Callisto. They look like rocky worlds with their dark surfaces but reveal their icy natures by the bright ejecta surrounding the impact craters. None of Memory Alpha's craters are marked in such a way. They lack even the brighter dust seen around some lunar craters. It's an old, geologically dead rock, like Regula.
However, the image argues against the planetoid being an icy body. Look at images of Ganymede and Callisto. They look like rocky worlds with their dark surfaces but reveal their icy natures by the bright ejecta surrounding the impact craters. None of Memory Alpha's craters are marked in such a way. They lack even the brighter dust seen around some lunar craters. It's an old, geologically dead rock, like Regula.
On a side note, I recall a novel I read in 1988 called Memory Prime. There were no less than FIVE prime worlds devoted to archives!
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Memory_Prime
Memory Prime
It is the central core of an immense computer library -- an elite network of research planetoids. Here, the Pathfinders -- the only artificial intelligences legally permitted to serve the Federation -- control and sift the overwhelming dataflow from thousands of research vessels across the galaxy...
Now the greatest scientists in the Federation have gathered here for the prestigious Nobel and Z-Magnees prize ceremonies -- unaware that a deadly assassin is stalking one of them. And as Captain Kirk struggles to save his ship from sabotage and his first officer from accusations of murder, he discovers the hidden assassin is far from the deadliest secret lurking on Memory Prime...
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Memory_Prime
Memory Prime
It is the central core of an immense computer library -- an elite network of research planetoids. Here, the Pathfinders -- the only artificial intelligences legally permitted to serve the Federation -- control and sift the overwhelming dataflow from thousands of research vessels across the galaxy...
Now the greatest scientists in the Federation have gathered here for the prestigious Nobel and Z-Magnees prize ceremonies -- unaware that a deadly assassin is stalking one of them. And as Captain Kirk struggles to save his ship from sabotage and his first officer from accusations of murder, he discovers the hidden assassin is far from the deadliest secret lurking on Memory Prime...
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