TrekMOVIE Is Broken

[Ln X]

His problems just didn't take the form of sitting down with a ship's counselor for ten minutes of dialog in order to really explore his feelings. Of course, maybe that would've been useful.

Yeah that would have been pointless, though I'm not sure Spock was suicidal at the beginning. Maybe it was some kind of Vulcan death ritual or perhaps he was looking forward to the end to be relieved of the emotional baggage? That's not exactly suicidal behaviour.

TOS was fun. Kirk had fun, and we lived vicariously through him. STID recaptured a lot of that, at least to this 50-something fan from early syndication days. TNG was very good, but if I may say, it was stuffier than TOS. It wasn't as much fun.

I thought principles, morality, philosophy, politics, ideology, spirituality and the humanoid condition were at the centre of Star Trek. They defined ST and were the main reason why TOS stood out in the 60s, while the fun was icing on the cake if you will. That's why I like DS9 so much, sure it got serious at times but it had the best humour of all the ST series.

But I do agree about TNG feeling a little stuffy. Finally if it were not for principles, morality and so forth, then I would never have been a fan of ST in the first place! That's why I believe TNG and DS9 are improvements upon TOS (natural evolution if you will) and why I feel STID is simply going backwards, or why it has failed to balance TOS with Modern Trek. Star Trek 09 did balance it and that's why I like that film even if it was a little watered down in places.

 

[BillJ]

I thought principles, morality, philosophy, politics, ideology, spirituality and the humanoid condition were at the centre of Star Trek. They defined ST and were the main reason why TOS stood out in the 60s, while the fun was icing on the cake if you will.

Star Trek stood out because of Shatner, Nimoy and Kelly. They had an incredible on-screen chemistry that not too many other shows can claim, Trek or not. We wouldn't be talking about Trek today if they had went to series with Hunter, Barrett and Nimoy. And I say that as a huge fan of "The Cage".

...and why I feel STID is simply going backwards, or why it has failed to balance TOS with Modern Trek.

This right here is the real rub that many fans have. They don't think that Star Trek Into Darkness was enough like the Trek they grew up with. I can say, that after six-hundred plus episodes of Modern Trek, that it was great to see Star Trek go back to its roots.

 

[Cyrus]

I miss Dennis.

What happened, did he get banned?

Didn't he eat his own shoes because he always said with 100% certainty that it won't be Khan?

I think it's the reverse, he said it was going to be Khan.

This place is super dull without him. If he is banned then he should get unbanned. And where the heck is Samuel T. Cogley? We could also use some humor around here.

 

[Harvey]

Dennis wasn't banned. He just left for whatever reason.

 

[Sindatur]

I thought principles, morality, philosophy, politics, ideology, spirituality and the humanoid condition were at the centre of Star Trek. They defined ST and were the main reason why TOS stood out in the 60s, while the fun was icing on the cake if you will.

Star Trek stood out because of Shatner, Nimoy and Kelly. They had an incredible on-screen chemistry that not too many other shows can claim, Trek or not. We wouldn't be talking about Trek today if they had went to series with Hunter, Barrett and Nimoy. And I say that as a huge fan of "The Cage".

...and why I feel STID is simply going backwards, or why it has failed to balance TOS with Modern Trek.

This right here is the real rub that many fans have. They don't think that Star Trek Into Darkness was enough like the Trek they grew up with. I can say, that after six-hundred plus episodes of Modern Trek, that it was great to see Star Trek go back to its roots.

I'm still mystified by this complaint. NuTrek is bassed upon TOS, how can they possibly complain about it not being TNG, if it's true to TOS, it is never going to be like TNG and forward

 

[mos6507]

all the others liked it. So go fuck yourself.

I don't remember one block of fans insulting another block of fans in such a childish and rude way before JJ Trek changed the makeup of Trek "fandom" demographics.

Unfortunately, not only is TrekMOVIE broken, but TrekBBS is too.

 

[Ln X]

Star Trek stood out because of Shatner, Nimoy and Kelly. They had an incredible on-screen chemistry that not too many other shows can claim, Trek or not. We wouldn't be talking about Trek today if they had went to series with Hunter, Barrett and Nimoy. And I say that as a huge fan of "The Cage".

I agree with you there, actors if they are great can elevate shows/series/films which are a wee bit dodgy or flaky. But that still doesn't change my view that TOS was a foundation of Trek universe whose offshoots (TNG and DS9) took this universe to greater levels.

However I think STID and TOS have very little in common. For one the NuTrek characters are different, whether that be due to the altered timeline or tweaked characterizations or youth. I still can't understand why NuKirk was promoted to a captain. Sure give that guy a promotion for destroying Nero's ship and saving Earth but show him the ropes first. How cool would it have been if Kirk were promoted as First Officer of the Enterprise and Spock as captain?

It's a reboot so change things, shake things up! Commander Kirk, that would have thrown a spanner in the works but in a good way! It's missed opportunities like this which could have made the two new ST films really awesome, and more importantly give STID a far stronger basis.

 

[FarStrider]

all the others liked it. So go fuck yourself.

I don't remember one block of fans insulting another block of fans in such a childish and rude way before JJ Trek changed the makeup of Trek "fandom" demographics.

Unfortunately, not only is TrekMOVIE broken, but TrekBBS is too.

Obviously you weren't around when TNG first came out, then. And it's a good thing the internet wasn't around back then, because there.JJ has nothing to do with internet culture. . . and the insults are a 2-way street.

~FS

 

[Franklin]

His problems just didn't take the form of sitting down with a ship's counselor for ten minutes of dialog in order to really explore his feelings. Of course, maybe that would've been useful.

Yeah that would have been pointless, though I'm not sure Spock was suicidal at the beginning. Maybe it was some kind of Vulcan death ritual or perhaps he was looking forward to the end to be relieved of the emotional baggage? That's not exactly suicidal behaviour.

TOS was fun. Kirk had fun, and we lived vicariously through him. STID recaptured a lot of that, at least to this 50-something fan from early syndication days. TNG was very good, but if I may say, it was stuffier than TOS. It wasn't as much fun.

I thought principles, morality, philosophy, politics, ideology, spirituality and the humanoid condition were at the centre of Star Trek. They defined ST and were the main reason why TOS stood out in the 60s, while the fun was icing on the cake if you will. That's why I like DS9 so much, sure it got serious at times but it had the best humour of all the ST series.

But I do agree about TNG feeling a little stuffy. Finally if were not for principles, morality and so forth, then I would never have gotten into ST in the first place! That's why I felt TNG and DS9 were evolutions from TOS and why I feel STID is simply going backwards, or why it has failed to balance TOS with Modern Trek. Star Trek 09 did balance it and that's why I like that film even if it was a little watered down in places.

No. TOS did not stand out in the 1960s for the things you mentioned, above. Honestly. It didn't. It was not defined by those things. That's the propaganda that came later. Drop that baggage (become of the body and feel the love of Landru) and you'll understand where TOS comes from a lot better.

It certainly wasn't of the ilk like Lost in Space, It's About Time, or Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. It wasn't like The Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres, Batman, or I Dream of Jeanie, either. But it didn't lay the ground-work for All in the Family, M*A*S*H, Soap, Barney Miller, or any of the early 1970s shows that truly began to openly deal with complex issues, either. It was intelligent, but as far as being about principles and morality goes, in its day it was about on par with how they were dealt with on The Andy Griffith Show (that is, stories centering around a simple moral dilemma, needing to understand and help others, or simply about being a good person and doing the right thing).

If TOS stood out in the 1960s, it was because it was one of a few sci-fi shows out there at the time that didn't seem better suited for the Saturday morning kid crowd than adults in prime time. Among action-adventure shows, it stood out from the westerns and cop shows on TV at the time because it was so visually and conceptually different. But that's the only real reason it stood out.

 

[Cyrus]

all the others liked it. So go fuck yourself.

I don't remember one block of fans insulting another block of fans in such a childish and rude way before JJ Trek changed the makeup of Trek "fandom" demographics.

Unfortunately, not only is TrekMOVIE broken, but TrekBBS is too.

Obviously you weren't around when TNG first came out, then. And it's a good thing the internet wasn't around back then, because there.JJ has nothing to do with internet culture. . . and the insults are a 2-way street.

~FS

Internet was around during TNG, though world wide web wasn't so it wasn't easy to get access to internet. But there was plenty of fireworks on the Usenet newsgroups discussing TNG.

 

[JarodRussell]

all the others liked it. So go fuck yourself.

I don't remember one block of fans insulting another block of fans in such a childish and rude way before JJ Trek changed the makeup of Trek "fandom" demographics.

Unfortunately, not only is TrekMOVIE broken, but TrekBBS is too.

Obviously you weren't around when TNG first came out, then. And it's a good thing the internet wasn't around back then, because there.JJ has nothing to do with internet culture. . . and the insults are a 2-way street.

~FS

Not really. "Dude, your work sucks." is not the same as "Dude, you suck."

As the TrekBBS rules say: Attack the post, not the poster.

 

[FarStrider]

I don't remember one block of fans insulting another block of fans in such a childish and rude way before JJ Trek changed the makeup of Trek "fandom" demographics.

Unfortunately, not only is TrekMOVIE broken, but TrekBBS is too.

Obviously you weren't around when TNG first came out, then. And it's a good thing the internet wasn't around back then, because there.JJ has nothing to do with internet culture. . . and the insults are a 2-way street.

~FS

Internet was around during TNG, though world wide web wasn't so it wasn't easy to get access to internet. But there was plenty of fireworks on the Usenet newsgroups discussing TNG.

You are right, of course. I meant the web. And the people on Usenet in the 80s were generally of a more "academic" bent than most people who online now.

~FS

 

[CorporalClegg]

...and why I feel STID is simply going backwards, or why it has failed to balance TOS with Modern Trek.

This right here is the real rub that many fans have. They don't think that Star Trek Into Darkness was enough like the Trek they grew up with. I can say, that after six-hundred plus episodes of Modern Trek, that it was great to see Star Trek go back to its roots.

Hear, hear!

I still can't understand why NuKirk was promoted to a captain. Sure give that guy a promotion for destroying Nero's ship and saving Earth but show him the ropes first. How cool would it have been if Kirk were promoted as First Officer of the Enterprise and Spock as captain?

Not that cool.

It's "Captain Kirk." No one cares about Captain Spock.

It's a reboot so change things, shake things up! Commander Kirk, that would have thrown a spanner in the works but in a good way! It's missed opportunities like this which could have made the two new ST films really awesome, and more importantly give STID a far stronger basis.

No.

And the people on Usenet in the 80s were generally of a more "academic" bent than most people who online now.

~FS

Hey now. I do my best.

 

[SeerSGB]

all the others liked it. So go fuck yourself.

I don't remember one block of fans insulting another block of fans in such a childish and rude way before JJ Trek changed the makeup of Trek "fandom" demographics.

Unfortunately, not only is TrekMOVIE broken, but TrekBBS is too.

Obviously you weren't around when TNG first came out, then. And it's a good thing the internet wasn't around back then, because there.JJ has nothing to do with internet culture. . . and the insults are a 2-way street.

~FS

Yeppers. I remember being a convention or two around the time TNG was in its first season, and it was pretty much like what we have with the anti-Abrams / pro-Abrams crowd. Gene was trashed hard for "selling out" and "Fuck it, if it isn't Kirk and Spock I don't want it". Even variations of "They're pissing on the fans" and "No real fan would ever watch this boring garbage"

 

[Enterprise is Great]

So basically the past is repeating itself.

 

[M'Sharak]

all the others liked it. So go fuck yourself.

I don't remember one block of fans insulting another block of fans...

... you weren't around when TNG... came out, then. ...

...

As the TrekBBS rules say: Attack the post, not the poster.

Save for your hypothetical "go fuck yourself," there is no attack. Sit down, please, O Mini-Mod.

 

[BillJ]

I don't remember one block of fans insulting another block of fans in such a childish and rude way before JJ Trek changed the makeup of Trek "fandom" demographics.

Unfortunately, not only is TrekMOVIE broken, but TrekBBS is too.

You obviously weren't around when Enterprise was on the air and Berman and Braga were commonly referred to as "Knobshine" and "Fuck-knuckle".

You had posters like Stewey who took absolute glee in tearing down the show and its fans.

What has went on with the Abrams films is tame by comparison.

 

[SeerSGB]

So basically the past is repeating itself.

Never ended. I'm sure people pissed and moaned about TAS, then Phase II, then TMP, Then TWOK, etc, etc.

Fans, as a whole, are never happy. Someone is always pissing in someone's Cheerios.

I've seen the same fans that argued that Gene is a creative genius one day, slam him as a sell out, drunk, womanizing, hack another day, then right back to a creative genius the day after that.

Some people can't be happy unless they've got something to bitch about. Always been that way, the 'net just gives them a soapbox and megaphone called "fansites" to scream it a little louder.

 

[Opus]

So basically the past is repeating itself.

Yes, yes, yes, a million times YES!



And contrary to popular belief, The Wrath of Khan was not wholeheartedly embraced by the fans either. It was panned as "too militaristic", that Khan was not like the Khan in 'Space Seed', and that TWOK actually ruined the whole point of 'Space Seed' - Supper humans conquering a savage world and what that society would be like generations later.

ETA: ^ and ^^Ninja'd

 

[Sindatur]

So basically the past is repeating itself.

Yes, yes, yes, a million times YES!



And contrary to popular belief, The Wrath of Khan was not wholeheartedly embraced by the fans either. It was panned as "too militaristic", that Khan was not like the Khan in 'Space Seed', and that TWOK actually ruined the whole point of 'Space Seed' - Supper humans conquering a savage world and what that society would be like generations later.

ETA: ^ and ^^Ninja'd

Supper Humans? Are they spicier than Breakfast or Lunch Humans?