Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoilers)

[Christopher]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

I can see the new Kirk-era adventures maybe crowding out old-timeline TOS, but I don't see them crowding out 24th-century fiction.

This prospect does not cheer me. Half a loaf is better than none, but while I could cheerfully live without ever reading (say) a VOY novel, I'm rather fond of the 23rd century.

Well, I just meant I could understand the logic behind such a scenario -- not that I think it's likely to happen.

 

[Claudia]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Oh, I see myriad of possibilities after this film. There're quite a few playgrounds to cover, after all.

While the alternate timeline might be a bit off-limit right now, the "old timeline" should actually now be opened up for anything... including the destruction of Romulus of course (which makes the recent inner developments that have been taking place in the Titan-books and the (post-) Destiny books especially interesting). Spock, of course, would have died at some point - but I find it a bit bittersweet to know that he leaves the original timeline just a mere 6 years from current TrekLit events.

In the new timeline, there'd be plenty to explore - I mean, Vulcan's gone, one of the founding planets of the Federation. And that has to leave an impact. Also, I like nuSpock's conflicted nature. At the beginning of the movie, he might have been in the same position as Spock Prime - but the events, the loss of his mother, the rapprochement to his father, the destruction of Vulcan, all this set him on a different path, and also perhaps a different attitude towards his own previous choices.

As for Spock Prime and the Vulcan colony... well, I see potential for that as well in a future book series as I guess the movies'll rather concentrate on the Enterprise for who knows for how long Nimoy can return...

The only downside I see would be that original TOS-novels could vanish in time to be replaced by the new crew's adventures... Let's just hope "Troublesome Minds" sells well.

 

[Nerroth]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

I believe that there is ample scope for looking further afield than just to the TOS-era factions for ideas - I for one can think of a number of species which are shown on-screen in later eras that could be given introductions in the new timeline...

...and tell stories that were mostly precluded in the other timeline, to boot.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Comic books aren't part of the Trek Lit continuity, at least they're not mandatory. Although I would have liked to see novels spun off Debt of Honor, but that's another matter.

I would prefer it if the original Trek Lit Line ignored the Countdown comics and the new movie.

Spoiler: Part of my opinion of the film from another thread.

In Trekverse, Romulus is destroyed before Spock and Nero jump back in time. In Trek 2.0, Vulcan is destroyed. So from now on, you either have Vulcans without Romulans, or Romulans without Vulcans. Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong! You can't have one without the other, either race is a warped mirror image of the other. The Vulcans see the Romulans as what they could be without logic, and the Romulans see the Vulcans as the arrogant Fed lackeys who kicked them offworld, and in essence betrayed them. You also have this long running plotline about Reunification. All that has been turned to dust. Fundamental elements of Trek have been erased. I don't care about what happens in Trek 2.0, but they shouldn't have screwed the Original fans over.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the new film more than I have enjoyed a Trek movie since Final Frontier. But that's because it is so dumb. It's a popcorn chewing summer blockbuster leave your brain at the door flick. Literature based on it is going to reflect that.

I'd prefer it if Optimus Spock that travelled back in time came from a Quantum Bubble Universe that momentarily fluctuated from the 'real' Trekverse, where supernovae propagate at FTL, where a whole planet of people don't bother to evacuate and instead rely on just one man to save them... where dumb stupid plot devices drive the day rather than common sense.

That way the real verse can continue on its merry way and remain an enjoyable place with it's major structure intact.

 

[wew]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

What I found interesting is that exactly 10,000 Vulcans exist, if you go by Spock' statement. What would be the odd's that you would get that perfect of a number, not 10,323, etc.?

The other problem, is when did they get time to do a census count? I got the impression that events went quite quickly, guess the phone-tree census was on overtime.

Of course, one of the major problems I had was with the timing factors from the initial attack on Vulcan to the attack on Earth. Seems that Vulcan is less than a day's voyage at warp speed from Earth.

 

[Claudia]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

What I found interesting is that exactly 10,000 Vulcans exist, if you go by Spock' statement. What would be the odd's that you would get that perfect of a number, not 10,323, etc.?

Honestly, I thought Spock simply gave a rough estimate in that log entry not a fix number, and I gathered that ~10000 escaped from Vulcan, not that only 10000 Vulcans exist any longer - I mean there were Vulcans not on Vulcan at the time (others like Spock who chose not to live on Vulcan or were away on some assignments etc).

 

[Christopher]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

What I found interesting is that exactly 10,000 Vulcans exist, if you go by Spock' statement. What would be the odd's that you would get that perfect of a number, not 10,323, etc.?

Spock never said "exactly." He said "Of the planet's six billion inhabitants, I estimate that no more than ten thousand survived."

Of course, one of the major problems I had was with the timing factors from the initial attack on Vulcan to the attack on Earth. Seems that Vulcan is less than a day's voyage at warp speed from Earth.

Well, 16 light-years in less than a day isn't that bad compared to a lot of the things we've seen in Trek. In First Contact, the Enterprise seems to be able to get from the Romulan border to the Sol system within minutes. DS9 sometimes implied (especially in "Paradise Lost") that the Federation/Cardassian border was only a few days away from Earth. And let's not even get into ST V where the E got to the center of the galaxy in a matter of minutes.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Something that occurred to me, with all this talk of 10,000 Vulcans left...

In the Star Trek: Early Voyages comic, the Enterprise discovered an ancient Vulcan colony world, descendents of Vulcans who left sometime before the Reformation. (It's been a while since I read the issue, but I remember that, at the time, I imagined that this was a colony founded by one of the lost Rihannsu ships.)

In the movie's timeline, this adventure presumably never happened. Pike and Spock didn't have this mission.

So, there's a viable Vulcan colony out there to be discovered.

At least, that's how I see it.

For all I know, when Spock-Prime talks about finding a world suitable for Vulcan's survivors, he may well have been talking about this world.

 

[EonTrinity]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Greetings all!

Well I really liked the first film, even though it didn't have some of the oomph that I was expecting from the previews (other than the first 10 minutes). It was a fast fun light action film that I found very true to the spirit of the original series. And I really liked the Spock/Uhura thing, but i have friends that didn't and I understand why.

That said, I think Pocketbooks should give us a six book miniseries about the exciting adventures of Christopher Pike, because Bruce absolutley ruled in the part. The final book could end with him arriving in that bar in Iowa.

ET

 

[Overgeeked]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

“The warcriminal known as Nero. Nero who has destroyed my home planet and most of its 6 billion inhabitants. While the essence of our culture has been saved in the elders who now reside upon this ship, I estimate that no more than 10,000 have survived… I am now a member of an endangered species.”

This is classic Shakespearean stuff. This is the stuff of legends. There is immense potential here for storytelling, revealing the human condition, tragic characters, etc. This is the kind of series I’d devour (or love to work on, thank you). I am a writer, but at the early stages of starting my career.

I would buy this in a heartbeat. Novel, comic, series, direct to dvd movie, whatever. I’m a Vulcan junkie. Please, if you won’t hire me to write this, get someone else. This has immense potential as a series.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Yeah. I want stories about the Vulcan relocation, about Pike's career in this universe, about Robau's career, about this slightly-darker Kirk at the academy, about Spock and Uhura's relationship...

Not to mention wanting to see this much younger Kirk assume command of the ship and see how he interacts with everyone and how he leads.

This movie has SO MANY storytelling possibilities it opens up. I expect it to be a couple of years before this really gets rolling, but I hope Pocket is all over this shit.

 

[JD]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

I'd love to see a Robau series, even though we only saw him for a little while in the move, he seemed like an aswome character. Plus it would give us a chance to see more of Kirk's parents. Has Winnona played a role in any of the books or comics?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Has Winnona played a role in any of the books or comics?

Winona first appeared (and was first named) in Vonda McIntyre's Enterprise: The First Adventure, which is also where George Kirk Sr. was named for the first time. She had minor roles in Diane Carey's Final Frontier and A. C. Crispin's Time for Yesterday. Here's a list from Memory Beta of works that include or at least mention her:

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Winona_Kirk

 

[KRAD]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Amusingly, this makes two characters whose first names were established in a Vonda N. McIntyre novel that later became part of the onscreen canon: Hikaru Sulu and Winona Kirk.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Three, not two. You're forgetting George. Kirk's brother was named George Samuel Kirk in "What Are Little Girls Made Of," but it was McIntyre who decided that their father was also George Samuel.

And the movie also canonizes Nyota as Uhura's first name. Am I right that it was William Rotsler who coined that?

 

[Lonemagpie]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

And the movie also canonizes Nyota as Uhura's first name. Am I right that it was William Rotsler who coined that?

Yep, in Star Trek II Biographies.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

^I thought so, though I have the vague impression that he may have coined it in some fan publication before then.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

Most fan publications of that era gave Uhura's first name as "Penda."

 

[rfmcdpei]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

As I said, 10000 Vulcans in the entire galaxy is an endangered species. If there are millions more out there on colony worlds, the conversation makes no sense.

The dialogue referred to ten thousand people escaping from the surface of Vulcan. It didn't speak about the number of Vulcans living off-planet, of which we know there are a few--Spock, for instance.

Christopher's right in arguing that Vulcan, a spacefaring power of long vintage with what we know to be an extensive presence elsewhere in the 40 Eridani system and beyond, is likely to have a reasonably substantial diaspora. It might be relatively smaller, thanks to Vulcan's greater cultural conservatism, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't there.

Of course, we don't know what the post-Nero demographics of Vulcans are like because the movie didn't go into them in detail. What we can say is that either alternative--a large Vulcan diaspora or a non-existent one--could be supported by the movie's evidence, with the likelihood of the situation making me think that the former scenario is more likely.

With a diaspora numbering in the millions, the loss of life on the homeworld would have been horrible, tragic but nowhere near a threat to Vulcans as a species.

5% of the Jews living between France and the Soviet Union survived the Second World War. Many--most--of the survivors were afraid that their culture would disappear, and that there would soon be no more Jews left at all. The Holocaust was certainly experienced as an existential threat to the Jews. Why wouldn't the destruction of Vulcan produce a similar reaction among the surviving Vulcans?

 

[donners22]

Re: Trek XI's implications for future Trek novels (major movie spoiler

What I found interesting is that exactly 10,000 Vulcans exist, if you go by Spock' statement. What would be the odd's that you would get that perfect of a number, not 10,323, etc.?

Honestly, I thought Spock simply gave a rough estimate in that log entry not a fix number, and I gathered that ~10000 escaped from Vulcan, not that only 10000 Vulcans exist any longer - I mean there were Vulcans not on Vulcan at the time (others like Spock who chose not to live on Vulcan or were away on some assignments etc).

I think it's very clear that there are only 10,000 left in total. There were no ships in orbit around Vulcan to beam them aboard (aside from the Enterprise, which got the grand total of half a dozen) and no time to launch from the surface. nuSpock's quote above certainly appears to be referring to a total tally.


I really hope they don't use some of the sillier aspects from the film though - they could have used Scotty's equation to beam people to or from Voyager and made that whole series moot...