Trek Books for Kindle

[bfollowell]

I have several availability and pricing complaints about the Kindle Trek books:

- The first Eugenics Wars book costs more than $30.00!
- The first two Errand of Fury books cost more than $18.00!

I can't vouch for all of your issues but I think you may be mistaken on these two issues.

I just looked at the U.S. Amazon site and found that the Kindle pricing for all of these books is the normal $7.99 each. When I look at the print versions I see the crazy, wacked out pricing you mentioned but print books don't have anything to do with the Kindle. Are you sure you weren't looking at the print versions by mistake?

- Byron

 

[tmclough]

I have several availability and pricing complaints about the Kindle Trek books:

- The first Eugenics Wars book costs more than $30.00!
- The first two Errand of Fury books cost more than $18.00!

I can't vouch for all of your issues but I think you may be mistaken on these two issues.

I just looked at the U.S. Amazon site and found that the Kindle pricing for all of these books is the normal $7.99 each. When I look at the print versions I see the crazy, wacked out pricing you mentioned but print books don't have anything to do with the Kindle. Are you sure you weren't looking at the print versions by mistake?

- Byron

Check Art Vandelay's location--it's Germany. If you you check the amazon.de website, you'll see what s/he means.

 

[bfollowell]

Check Art Vandelay's location--it's Germany. If you you check the amazon.de website, you'll see what s/he means.

OK, I missed that it was from the German Amazon site. He mentioned $xx and I didn't notice his location.

I can't understand why a certain few ebooks would be so expensive and so way off base in relation to the others. It seems crazy. Of course, dropping the third book in a series seems crazy as well. I'm sure they'll get it fixed eventually but the questions is, how long will users like Art have to wait for these issues to be fixed?

- Byron

 

[Kinggodzillak]

Vanguard: Summon the Thunder is limited to the US.
- Vanguard: Reap the Whirlwind isn't available at all, and so are some of Greg Cox's books.

Amazon.co.uk have Reap the Whirlwind, but still no Summon the Thunder.

Bizarrely, they're now also offering the German versions of Death in Winter and Destiny #1 and #2. And for some reason the German version of Destiny #2 costs nearly twice as much as the English version - is that to cover the cost of the longer words?

Also, the five books I mentioned in post #211 have gone back up in price again.

 

[Art Vandelay]

OK, I missed that it was from the German Amazon site. He mentioned $xx and I didn't notice his location.

What's even more confusing... I ordered my Kindle through Amazon.de, but when it arrived, it was automatically connected to Amazon.com. The prices I see there are the "crazy €UR prices" simply converted to U$D. Also, you see those same prices if you search Amazon.com's Kindle store on a computer using a European IP address.

 

[Claudia]

The German books (print) cost around 13 Euro - the English books around 5,5-6 Euro (both on amazon.de)... I really don't know why, but it's one very compelling reason to buy the OV. *g*

I really don't understand the price policy of the ebooks, though. I'm interested in purchasing a Kindle, but I'm not willing to pay for an ebook almost as much as for a normal book. It's just a computerfile that can be multiplied/copied with virtually no costs, at least you don't need to pay for print color or paper... I think it'd be a real alternative if the prices reflected that (especially give the costs for the device itself).

 

[bfollowell]

I really don't understand the price policy of the ebooks, though. I'm interested in purchasing a Kindle, but I'm not willing to pay for an ebook almost as much as for a normal book. It's just a computerfile that can be multiplied/copied with virtually no costs, at least you don't need to pay for print color or paper... I think it'd be a real alternative if the prices reflected that (especially give the costs for the device itself).

I used to think the same way, actually I still do to a degree, but according to representatives of most publishers, the cost of actually printing the books is miniscule. It is an extremely small percentage of the cost of a book. Therefore there is no, or at least very little, savings to them by not having to print the book. If there's no savings to them by not having to print, there are no savings for them to pass on to us, regardless of what form the book actually takes, print, ebook, whatever.

I'm not saying I buy that argument mind you, only that I've heard it used many times.

With me, the convenience of being able to store my books in a very small space, search my books, carry many books with me at once won me over. I'm sure everyone's individual mileage will very.

- Byron

 

[JoeZhang]

I used to think the same way, actually I still do to a degree, but according to representatives of most publishers, the cost of actually printing the books is miniscule. It is an extremely small percentage of the cost of a book. Therefore there is no, or at least very little, savings to them by not having to print the book. If there's no savings to them by not having to print, there are no savings for them to pass on to us, regardless of what form the book actually takes, print, ebook, whatever.

I'm not saying I buy that argument mind you, only that I've heard it used many times.

It's part truth, part-bunk, they have a high-cost traditional business model that they don't want to collapse - so they need to keep prices artificially high.

 

[Deano2099]

I used to think the same way, actually I still do to a degree, but according to representatives of most publishers, the cost of actually printing the books is miniscule. It is an extremely small percentage of the cost of a book. Therefore there is no, or at least very little, savings to them by not having to print the book. If there's no savings to them by not having to print, there are no savings for them to pass on to us, regardless of what form the book actually takes, print, ebook, whatever.

I'm not saying I buy that argument mind you, only that I've heard it used many times.

There is truth to it but it's really hard for publishers to make that case when it's also true there's very little savings in making a paperback instead of a hardback, but they've been selling us hardbacks for twice the normal price for decades. Similarly the push to trade-paperbacks to make the format more 'prestigious' and so justify charging more.

We've basically had 30 years of publishers pricing books according to how fancy the packaging was, and not once did they ever come out and say "you know, the printing costs are only 5% of the book costs and the difference between formats is negligible".

So ebooks come along and *of course* everyone expects them to be cheaper because they have *no* packaging at all so they should be almost free.

And publishers start shitting themselves as they realise the lie they've been pedelling for the past few decades has come back to bite them in the behind and they're faced with the task of reframing the entire world's expectations as to how book pricing works without admitting they've been running an industry on a lie since before many of us were born.

It sucks, but it was something they well and truly bought on themselves. Had they always pushed the value of the content and the work over the container this would be much less painful.

 

[LightningStorm]

The problem I see with all of this is that the public seems to think that pricing is driven by how much it costs to make something. That only comes into play in so far as the price of an item is not likely to be sold for less than it costs to make it.

So, (picking a random number) if a book costs $1.00 to make, all that guarantees is that a book will probably never go for less than $1.00. After that it's all about what people are willing to pay for it. People are willing to pay a higher price for a hardcover book than for a MMPB and therefore those will cost more. It's utterly irrelevant that the price to produce a HC is pennies more than the price to produce a MMPB. Same goes for e-books, if people are willing to pay more for e-books then the price for e-book will be higher, again how much it costs to make them is irrelevant.

I'm not sure when or why the general public got it in their minds that just because cost of manufacturing goes down that the savings will automatically be passed along. Just because they could be, doesn't mean they will be.

So, the publishing industry hasn't told any lies, haven't schemed anybody, they've been doing business the exact same way literally every other business operates (at least any that actually remain in business). They set the price of books at the price people are willing to pay for them.

 

[Thrawn]

If you look on either Amazon or iTunes these days, different CDs cost different amounts of money. Because some are priced higher than others, on purpose, based on the expected interest. (So, for example, REM's latest CD was $12 and each song was $1.39).

Which is to say: most industries do this, pricing based on prestige. With books, they did the same thing, they just made the format part of it. The books they expected to sell for more money they priced higher, and also made the book a hardcover so it had greater shelf space, etc. Now, they're just taking the format out of the equation.

The huge kerfuffle about this is pretty funny. God forbid publishers price based on demand, like every other business on the face of the Earth!

 

[Thrawn]

If you look on either Amazon or iTunes these days, different CDs cost different amounts of money. Because some are priced higher than others, on purpose, based on the expected interest. (So, for example, REM's latest CD was $12 and each song was $1.39).

Which is to say: most industries do this, pricing based on prestige. With books, they did the same thing, they just made the format part of it. The books they expected to sell for more money they priced higher, and also made the book a hardcover so it had greater shelf space, etc. Now, they're just taking the format out of the equation.

The huge kerfuffle about this is pretty funny. God forbid publishers price based on demand, like every other business on the face of the Earth!

 

[Claudia]

I get your point.

On the other hand, also from what I read here, some ebooks apparently lack a proper cover-image, or have formatting issues - and, due to the DRM-issues, if you, later on, buy a reader other than Kindle, then you can't use/read the books at all, except if you know your way around that problem... So, you pay almost the same amount for something that comes with serious limitations... and IMO those limitations should have an influence on the pricing.

 

[LightningStorm]

I get your point.

On the other hand, also from what I read here, some ebooks apparently lack a proper cover-image, or have formatting issues - and, due to the DRM-issues, if you, later on, buy a reader other than Kindle, then you can't use/read the books at all, except if you know your way around that problem... So, you pay almost the same amount for something that comes with serious limitations... and IMO those limitations should have an influence on the pricing.

Those things DO have an influence on the price. Because it is what people are willing to pay for. Apparently more people are willing to pay for those things complete with limitations for the prices they are going for now. It's that simple. No cover, DRM, no physical object, just the words, and people are buying these for those prices. Just because you won't, doesn't mean the majority of other people wouldn't either.

In fact I could totally see them raising the price of e-books if they added those additional things in. Because I'm sure people would like to have those things, they clearly aren't a requirement at the price they're going for now.

 

[JoeZhang]

The huge kerfuffle about this is pretty funny. God forbid publishers price based on demand, like every other business on the face of the Earth!

That in itself would be fine but that's not what seems to be actually happening - what we seem to having is cartel like activity (agency pricing) to try and keep the price artificially high. Hopefully the recent EU raids and investigation will lead to action that will kick this into touch and we will see real competition.

 

[Thrawn]

I admit that the price fixing is problematic, but honestly, emerging electronic markets all go through weird bullshit before they settle down. The iTunes store, early on, sold low-bitrate copies of only some CDs with heavy DRM all for the same price; now, it sells high-bitrate copies of pretty much everything with no DRM for nicely differentiated prices (as does the Amazon MP3 store, etc). I'm willing to bet, as the next few years progress, we slowly see a lot of the stupid crap in the eBook marketplace work itself out.

 

[Corran Horn]

The only kindle pricing I find odd is the kindle price being the same as the hardcover price when a paperback has already been released.

I love my kindle and I'll probably buy 'standalone' Trek novels (like the valeris book) in that format. "Children of the Storm" and the upcoming Vanguard books I'll go dead-tree on...because some crazy part of me likes seeing them on my shelves all in a row.

 

[lstyer]

The problem I see with all of this is that the public seems to think that pricing is driven by how much it costs to make something.

Sometimes pricing is driven by production costs. If I can figure out a way to make a competing product for a lower cost, I may be able to undercut the other guy's price and draw away sales. This isn't totally applicable to ebooks, though, because they aren't truly fungible. Due to copyright laws and licensing agreements, no one is going to be able to produce a lower priced copy of, say, the Typhon Pact novels.

On the other hand, if someone produces cheaper sci-fi adventure fiction, that could, possibly, start to draw readers away from Trek fiction generally.

After that it's all about what people are willing to pay for it.

But, if the public really believes that ebooks are cheaper to produce, they may not be willing to pay the same amount for an ebook as for a physical book. So, indirectly, the perceived cost to produce an ebook may impact the price.

So, the publishing industry hasn't told any lies, haven't schemed anybody, they've been doing business the exact same way literally every other business operates (at least any that actually remain in business).

I'm not sure that it's fair to say that "literally every . . . business" charges the maximum amount for its product that it believes people are willing to pay. Like I said before, competition can drive down prices, and competition paired with increased efficiencies can keep lower prices sustainable.

There's also the question of what "what people are willing to pay" means. Lets suppose that I can sell 100 widgets at $10 each and make $5 profit per widget, or I can sell 200 widgets at $9 each and make $4 profit per widget. Apparently "people are are willing to pay" $10, but more people seem to be willing to pay $9.

So, yeah, pricing is more complex than just "mark it up by X% and move on," but it's also more complex than just "squeeze every penny you can get out of the buyer."

 

[JoeZhang]

I'm willing to bet, as the next few years progress, we slowly see a lot of the stupid crap in the eBook marketplace work itself out.

Illegal cartels don't generally sort themselves out without legal sanctions which is what will eventually happen in the EU - not sure where that leaves you guys in the US, I guess you'll have to keep being ripped off.

 

[Thrawn]

^ Well, in point of fact, due to a recent Supreme Court decision, price fixing isn't as illegal in the US as it used to be. So it may be a legal cartel.