Transwarp hub/"A crippling blow to the Borg"
- Thread starter KyleCHaight
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Shouldn't there be multiple queens then? I remember like all queens came from speices such and such.
Also, I think she is a indvidual
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Borg_Queen
Also, I think she is a indvidual
- from Memory Alpha
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Borg_Queen
No, only one Queen.
If the Borg are all one mind, even if a drone dies his/her unique thoughts remain within the collective. That way no data is ever lost even if every drone of the species is somehow destroyed.
So if a Queen is destroyed, her mind remains within the collective until another body is created. So as long as one drone remains, the Queen will still exist. So in that aspect, she literally is the "beginning and the end".
Which probably explains the fact that she has been reincarnated with the exact facial looks of her predecessor body at least twice. Not all members of Species 129 (the favored Queen Species) need have identical faces, or be clones, or anything like that. It's just that the heads are not of Species 129, but are instead completely manufactured, series-produced things - so of course they are likely to come in a narrow range of models (that is, Alice Krige and Susanna Thompson). 
It could be that a dying Queen lashes out in pain, and that pain is enough to kill some of the nearest Drones connected to the Queen. The death of a regular Drone does not kill nearby Drones because only a Queen enjoys a sufficient extent of mental connection with her compatriots.
There's little reason to think that the death of a Queen would automatically make all the Drones around her unable to continue existence. We've witnessed many a Queen die, without catastrophic results to the Collective; OTOH, we have also usually witnessed the immediate surroundings of that Queen blow up spectacularly, so we can't tell if her nearest court would have gone on living...
As for whether there is only one Queen in physical existence at a time, or perhaps billions, no real way to tell. We can't trust her word, because even if she doesn't lie her eyes and ears full, she's probably using confusing terminology to describe her existence.
As to what the Queen really is, all manner of speculation is possible. An actual ruling sovereign; a lowly public relations slave; a separate lifeform that uses the Collective as its body, perhaps only one such lifeform out of dozens that live in the Collective? A parasite that has entered the Collective from outside? Perhaps even an exact analogy to an ant queen, a special resourceful and driven individual created at regular intervals in order to create a breakaway faction that propagates, diversifies and perpetuates the species?
Timo Saloniemi
It could be that a dying Queen lashes out in pain, and that pain is enough to kill some of the nearest Drones connected to the Queen. The death of a regular Drone does not kill nearby Drones because only a Queen enjoys a sufficient extent of mental connection with her compatriots.
There's little reason to think that the death of a Queen would automatically make all the Drones around her unable to continue existence. We've witnessed many a Queen die, without catastrophic results to the Collective; OTOH, we have also usually witnessed the immediate surroundings of that Queen blow up spectacularly, so we can't tell if her nearest court would have gone on living...
As for whether there is only one Queen in physical existence at a time, or perhaps billions, no real way to tell. We can't trust her word, because even if she doesn't lie her eyes and ears full, she's probably using confusing terminology to describe her existence.
As to what the Queen really is, all manner of speculation is possible. An actual ruling sovereign; a lowly public relations slave; a separate lifeform that uses the Collective as its body, perhaps only one such lifeform out of dozens that live in the Collective? A parasite that has entered the Collective from outside? Perhaps even an exact analogy to an ant queen, a special resourceful and driven individual created at regular intervals in order to create a breakaway faction that propagates, diversifies and perpetuates the species?
Timo Saloniemi
Which is why I believe only the drones the Queen is directly linked with would "feel" the effects of her dying. Other Borg that she isn't directly linked too survive. I think this is a Borg fail safe device to ensure Borg survive even if the Queen doesn't.Timo said:
Which probably explains the fact that she has been reincarnated with the exact facial looks of her predecessor body at least twice. Not all members of Species 129 (the favored Queen Species) need have identical faces, or be clones, or anything like that. It's just that the heads are not of Species 129, but are instead completely manufactured, series-produced things - so of course they are likely to come in a narrow range of models (that is, Alice Krige and Susanna Thompson).
It could be that a dying Queen lashes out in pain, and that pain is enough to kill some of the nearest Drones connected to the Queen. The death of a regular Drone does not kill nearby Drones because only a Queen enjoys a sufficient extent of mental connection with her compatriots.
There's little reason to think that the death of a Queen would automatically make all the Drones around her unable to continue existence. We've witnessed many a Queen die, without catastrophic results to the Collective; OTOH, we have also usually witnessed the immediate surroundings of that Queen blow up spectacularly, so we can't tell if her nearest court would have gone on living...
As for whether there is only one Queen in physical existence at a time, or perhaps billions, no real way to tell. We can't trust her word, because even if she doesn't lie her eyes and ears full, she's probably using confusing terminology to describe her existence.
As to what the Queen really is, all manner of speculation is possible. An actual ruling sovereign; a lowly public relations slave; a separate lifeform that uses the Collective as its body, perhaps only one such lifeform out of dozens that live in the Collective? A parasite that has entered the Collective from outside? Perhaps even an exact analogy to an ant queen, a special resourceful and driven individual created at regular intervals in order to create a breakaway faction that propagates, diversifies and perpetuates the species?
Timo Saloniemi
BTW, "Dark Frontier" explains what the Queens purpose is. Her job is too co-ordinate the collective. She the the onlt that gives the command to "assimilate", "regenerate" and so forth. Until that command is given or needed, she isn't linked to that cube or vessel at all. That is why you can walk onboard a Borg vessel unharmed. She doesn't know you are there until you do something to draw attention to yourself, she then links to that ship and gives a command. Depending on how serious the threat is, depends on how long she needs to stay linked to that Borg vessel.
Basically, she is "command centeral".
Frankly, the idea that the Borg are an indivisible collective consciousness is logically untenable if we adhere to the physical limitations of data propagation in Star Trek. Clearly the drones building an interplexing beacon in First Contact were not in communication with those in the Delta Quadrant, so the idea that the queen we saw therein was, as she implied, 'The Alpha and the Omega,' constitutes mere hyperbole. Perhaps the bodies we've seen are mere avatars of a queen gestalt that necessarily results from the amalgam of consciousness in the collective?
Or not.
It's probably not possible to reconcile the differing takes on the Borg we've seen to the satisfaction of all concerned.
Or not.
It's probably not possible to reconcile the differing takes on the Borg we've seen to the satisfaction of all concerned.
Now again in English.JM1776 said:
Frankly, the idea that the Borg are an indivisible collective consciousness is logically untenable if we adhere to the physical limitations of data propagation in Star Trek. Clearly the drones building an interplexing beacon in First Contact were not in communication with those in the Delta Quadrant, so the idea that the queen we saw therein was, as she implied, 'The Alpha and the Omega,' constitutes mere hyperbole. Perhaps the bodies we've seen are mere avatars of a queen gestalt that necessarily results from the amalgam of consciousness in the collective?
Or not.
It's probably not possible to reconcile the differing takes on the Borg we've seen to the satisfaction of all concerned.
JM1776 said:
exodus said: Now again in English.
Heh. That was pretty convoluted, wasn't it?
"I assume you're complimenting Mr. Spock on his ability to translate."
"I'm not sure, sir."
Actually, I was thinking: "Wow, so that's what a conversation with Beast or Reed Richards must feel like."
'Endgame' was, I suspect, deliberately vague. We know the Delta Quadrant hub was destroyed (visibly seen), but what of the rest of the network? Did taking the DQ hub out render the rest of the system inert, like an electrical circuit with a wire removed?
As I have stated before, I disliked 'Endgame', not only because I consider it to be a poor story, but it introduces some technical issues that won't simply go away:
-Do the Borg still exist?
-If so, is their transwarp corridor system functional?
-Will Starfleet adapt the ridiculous looking Borg defensive systems on Voyager to the rest of the fleet?
Even if the Borg have lost transwarp capacity (which might not be a bad thing from a storytelling point of view), they still have what appear to be (from maps) an active presence in the Beta Quadrant. Earth is not out of danger.
For the writers to leave things so vague and open, it really undermines part of the story of 'Endgame'.
As I have stated before, I disliked 'Endgame', not only because I consider it to be a poor story, but it introduces some technical issues that won't simply go away:
-Do the Borg still exist?
-If so, is their transwarp corridor system functional?
-Will Starfleet adapt the ridiculous looking Borg defensive systems on Voyager to the rest of the fleet?
Even if the Borg have lost transwarp capacity (which might not be a bad thing from a storytelling point of view), they still have what appear to be (from maps) an active presence in the Beta Quadrant. Earth is not out of danger.
For the writers to leave things so vague and open, it really undermines part of the story of 'Endgame'.
That's true, but the mind has to have somewhere to go to accomplish this sort of resurrection. If for example you cut off the Queen from the Collective (as we've seen with Borg like Hugh and Seven) and then killed her physical body, she would be unable to transfer into a new drone.
It's certainly possible that there is only one queen, but I'm inclined to agree with JM1776 - the idea of multiple queens, even if it's only a few, seems more plausible to me. It would better facilitate her function as the coordinator, and it would make it far easier to transfer between bodies in the event one is destroyed. The idea of the queen being a sort of gestalt.
No, no, no you're missing the key.
Seven stated that if a Borg dies it's thoughts remain within the collective. That way no matter what, a part of every drone survives. Seven will forever(in a way)be immortal. If a Queen dies, her mind, her thoughts, her essance will forever remain within the entire collective.
No matter what, the Queen just like Hugh & Seven will forever be within the Borg Collective. She is the collective and they are her. She can never be destroyed.
^^ Did she thoughts, or more specifically memories? I'm tempted to say the latter, although I don't remember. And I'm not sure whether this would be applicable to a character like Seven, who is not dead and no longer Borg. It's certainly possible the Collective might have retained some portion of her knowledge.
I dunno. I think you could be right, exodus, but I'm not overly comfortable with that sort of system; it seems like the Borg would be too difficult to defeat, since it implies the Collective is ultimately more than the sum of their physical consciousness.
I dunno. I think you could be right, exodus, but I'm not overly comfortable with that sort of system; it seems like the Borg would be too difficult to defeat, since it implies the Collective is ultimately more than the sum of their physical consciousness.
That's why the Borg have survived for centuries.Unicron said:
I dunno. I think you could be right, exodus, but I'm not overly comfortable with that sort of system; it seems like the Borg would be too difficult to defeat, since it implies the Collective is ultimately more than the sum of their physical consciousness.
Isn't immortality one of the greater gifts in seeking perfection?
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