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Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is it

Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

Uptightgirl said:
Praetor said:
Seriously, though, wasn't it really the original design intention, when the Enterprise was smaller and the saucer was meant to make planetfall, that the ventral transparent dome really was a lift engine, and the upper one a window into the bridge... or am I just imagining that?

:rommie:

I was serious.Hold your hand out on a sunny day and you feel warmth.Now put a 3 inch magnifying glass over it and your hand will burn.
To destroy a planet instead of using a 50 metre wide beam you funnel a 100 megawatt into a 20 cm circle in 1 second and hey presto! the accumalation of so much energy so quickly in such a small space will blast a hole in the planets crust with resultant super heated mantle magma expanding suddenly and destroying the crust of the planet in an explosive outward force.Like a balloon pricked with a needle.

This is how we destroy planets,by generating energy in small confined spaces with a magnification effect.In other words it is actually a electronic lens which focuses phaser bursts to an extremely fine point of 20 cm as this is the diffraction limitation for an orbital beam with that particular lens diameter.
When the saucer lands the lens is jettisoned and the emergency impulse engines are used for vtol.
Um... you DO realize that we don't actually destroy planets in real life, don't you?

You're really missing a lot of proportionality... any sense of SCALE... in your discussion.

It is certainly possible to collect light over a large area and focus it into a smaller one. This is the basic concept behind extant designs for solar smelters (a necessity for proposed concepts for asteroid or lunar mining and related metalurgy).

But what you're missing is that these huge, mile-wide reflector arrays in the solar smelter concepts produce enough energy to MELT SMALL QUANTITIES OF ORE.

Focus one of them on the planetary surface... first off, your light will be dispersed by the atmosphere, so it won't ever be as perfectly focused as it might be in a vacuum. But you could still melt the pavement, destroy a building or two, kill a few hundred people, maybe. It COULD be ugly.

But c'mon... "it's how we destroy planets???"

Let's be blunt here... no matter how much Al Gore rants about "Global Warming(tm)" or for that matter about the incipient threat of ManBearPig... humanity is not capable of destroying the planet, or even of having a particularly significant impact on the ecosystem, short-term. We've made much more of an impact by replacing prairie grass with farmland than we ever could in any other way.

We've ALTERED it, in noticeable ways, certainly, over many centuries. But it's nothing more or less than uninformed egotism that leads some people to think we could actually "destroy the planet."

As for destroying the planet with solar radiation, focused into a single beam... you'd need a lense literally more than ten thousands miles in diameter to accomplish what you just described (burning through the mantle and destroying the core).

If someone manages to make a lens that big, THEN we can talk. ;)
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

Cary L. Brown said:
Let's be blunt here... no matter how much Al Gore rants about "Global Warming(tm)" or for that matter about the incipient threat of ManBearPig... humanity is not capable of destroying the planet, or even of having a particularly significant impact on the ecosystem, short-term. We've made much more of an impact by replacing prairie grass with farmland than we ever could in any other way.

Nice to hear a non-"concensus" opinion for a change. :cool:
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

...there was NEVER any hint or intention of any aspect of the 1701 being able to land from the original designers.

...Hmh? I'd think that would have been Jeffries' leading thought when creating the saucer, especially back when it was supposed to be less than half its eventual size.

As for destroying the planet, I'm sure we could figure out something. For example, taking out the top plankton should be eminently possible with the correct combination of poisons and ozone layer damage. If we put our imagination to similar things on all aspects of the ecosystem, we could probably render the planet lifeless until the next event of abiogenesis.

Concentrating sunlight wouldn't be my first choice, tho.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

Cary L. Brown said:
Uptightgirl said:
Praetor said:
Seriously, though, wasn't it really the original design intention, when the Enterprise was smaller and the saucer was meant to make planetfall, that the ventral transparent dome really was a lift engine, and the upper one a window into the bridge... or am I just imagining that?

:rommie:

I was serious.Hold your hand out on a sunny day and you feel warmth.Now put a 3 inch magnifying glass over it and your hand will burn.
To destroy a planet instead of using a 50 metre wide beam you funnel a 100 megawatt into a 20 cm circle in 1 second and hey presto! the accumalation of so much energy so quickly in such a small space will blast a hole in the planets crust with resultant super heated mantle magma expanding suddenly and destroying the crust of the planet in an explosive outward force.Like a balloon pricked with a needle.

This is how we destroy planets,by generating energy in small confined spaces with a magnification effect.In other words it is actually a electronic lens which focuses phaser bursts to an extremely fine point of 20 cm as this is the diffraction limitation for an orbital beam with that particular lens diameter.
When the saucer lands the lens is jettisoned and the emergency impulse engines are used for vtol.
Um... you DO realize that we don't actually destroy planets in real life, don't you?

You're really missing a lot of proportionality... any sense of SCALE... in your discussion.

It is certainly possible to collect light over a large area and focus it into a smaller one. This is the basic concept behind extant designs for solar smelters (a necessity for proposed concepts for asteroid or lunar mining and related metalurgy).

But what you're missing is that these huge, mile-wide reflector arrays in the solar smelter concepts produce enough energy to MELT SMALL QUANTITIES OF ORE.

Focus one of them on the planetary surface... first off, your light will be dispersed by the atmosphere, so it won't ever be as perfectly focused as it might be in a vacuum. But you could still melt the pavement, destroy a building or two, kill a few hundred people, maybe. It COULD be ugly.

But c'mon... "it's how we destroy planets???"

Let's be blunt here... no matter how much Al Gore rants about "Global Warming(tm)" or for that matter about the incipient threat of ManBearPig... humanity is not capable of destroying the planet, or even of having a particularly significant impact on the ecosystem, short-term. We've made much more of an impact by replacing prairie grass with farmland than we ever could in any other way.

We've ALTERED it, in noticeable ways, certainly, over many centuries. But it's nothing more or less than uninformed egotism that leads some people to think we could actually "destroy the planet."

As for destroying the planet with solar radiation, focused into a single beam... you'd need a lense literally more than ten thousands miles in diameter to accomplish what you just described (burning through the mantle and destroying the core).

If someone manages to make a lens that big, THEN we can talk. ;)



You don't understand.If a nuke's energy is spread over the whole planet nothing will happen apart maybe a 0.001 degree temperature rise.But if you explode a nuke in a small area the effects are clear.The key points are small unit volume and small unit time.Hence a torch beam will not kill you,but that same torch beam's energy is focused into 0.0001 square millimetres in 1 microsecond then it will kill you.It's all about concentration.By the way that is how explosives work.Small unit volume and very small unit time.Do you really think if an explosive's energy was spread over the whole day and over a 100 square metres it would have the same effect?
We can destroy anything.Everyday our capacity,knowledge,technological prowess grows and power increases.
We can already destroy planet Mercury as it is quite,weak hot and fragile.

Soon we will be able to destroy planet Venus and use it's raw materials to start the next industrial revolution in which America will industrilize the solar system using all this extra raw material.

We can easily destroy Earth by simply drilling a deep bore hole and pumping 1000 tons of deuterium and igniting it with a nuke.The extra energy suddenly pumped in will cause the crust of the Earth to fly apart exposing the hot molton core of the planet.

It's all about small unit volume and small unit time and concentration.
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

I think if you concentrate great energy into a 20cm point of Earth, you'll, well, bore a 20cm hole down for a while until the vaporized gasses blowing out of the hole defocus the beam so much it stops being effective.

You'll probably kill everything for a couple mile radius, but the rest of the planet won't even know about until the evening news. :)
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

...Also, if you explode a giant bomb deep in the mantle, you probably won't get a sharp blow-out effect at the crust, not until very large values of giantness. The force will be absorbed and distributed by the mantle so that only the preexisting tectonic weak spots will receive enough of it to actually burp.

If you explode the bomb in the crust (as a drillhole-based technique would dictate), you only get a local hole there at best - one more volcano to assist the millions that already relieve Earth's internal pressures. Earth has weathered worse.

And it's still debatable if any application of today's technology could produce an explosion big enough to displace the required cubic kilometers of rock. A single fission explosion within the suggested volume of deuterium wouldn't cause a sufficiently large percentage of it to reach fusion conditions, and using multiple bombs would be a synchronizing nightmare. But I gather we could cook up something that would do that job if the need truly arose and an unlimited budget was provided. Right now, we can't even drill the required hole.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

Timo said:
...there was NEVER any hint or intention of any aspect of the 1701 being able to land from the original designers.

...Hmh? I'd think that would have been Jeffries' leading thought when creating the saucer, especially back when it was supposed to be less than half its eventual size.
Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, I might be making it up but I wonder if anyone else remembers reading something similar, somewhere, true or not? It was my thought that before 'The Cage' was ever written (or at least filmed) that the notion was that the saucer would land (a la the Jupiter II) leaving the engine section in orbit, then return to orbit and re-attach, and warp away, and when the network vetoed the idea, the transporter was 'invented,' and later the shuttles conceived. I mean, weren't the triangles on the bottom of the saucer conceived by Jefferies as landing feet, inspired on the whole by the Bellerophon from Forbidden Planet?

I may have to break out my copy of 'The Making of Star Trek...' although I have been known to selectively 'edit.'

:rommie:
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

You are partially correct.

In the initial format pitch, before Matt Jefferies was hired, not to mention long before anyone had a clue what the ship was going to look like, the ship was described as "rarely landing", a concept that was quickly ditched when Roddenberry realized that there was no way they were going to be able to afford to land that sucker, even occasionally, and not have it look like a rejected Buck Rogers shot.

As for the markings, I think a lot of after-the-fact rationalizations took place on that front, even on the part of Matt Jefferies (a bit that he was always up front about admitting, like the possible explanation behind the registry of NCC-1701, when the real reason was that it was the letter/number combination that looked the best on screen).

The markings were almost certainly put on there to make the surface look interesting without having the poor girl greebled to death. Anything beyond that is a matter of interpretation.
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

Thanks, CRA! I'm glad I wasn't totally imagining things.

:rommie:
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

It glows because it's a Phaser Coolant Radiator. After a hard day's phaserin', all that heat build up has to be emitted *somewhere*.

Just remember to top up the phaser coolant ("antifreeze") once in a while- Starbases are known to carry Penzoil.

...and that's transparent *aluminum*, ya know ;)
 
It's where sensor cat lives, and watches you masturbate.


ALL of you masturbate...
 
It's where sensor cat lives, and watches you masturbate.


ALL of you masturbate...

Of course we do ... isn't that what this board is for?

Or are you talking about a different type of masturbation?
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

I'll never forget the day I helped an old girlfriend move into her college apartment. She was lying on her back with her head under a round coffee table she was assembling and her legs splayed up and over the adjacent couch, bent at the knees. At that moment I realized why Kirk probably loved his ship so much, and why that ol' rascal Matt J. put the shuttlebay where he did. :devil: (yup, I know - "sick" doesn't begin to cover it :D)

Hah! Plan B. You know, as in 'Barricade!'
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

You're all wrong. It's the ship's jacuzzi, from where you can, if you squint really hard, see Captain Kirk masturbating on occasion. Not to mention (according to teh nu kannonnnn) gettin' it on with yet another green-skinned Orion girl...

;)
 
Re: Transparent Dome under Constitution Class Saucer,what is

No, its the sewage storage tank.
Every so often they just flip a switch and it opens up and empties over some poor planet.
 
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