News Trans character announced

[Mudd]

I've used Latinx for a while, honestly without knowing whether there was a consensus in the Latin American community around it. Evidently not, but is it controversial?

I admit that when major media begin using a tag frequently these days I'm prone to assume that it's considered more inclusive or respectful than what it's replacing. Perhaps that's a poor assumption to make, and I'll bear that in mind.

 

[1001001]

Cis isn't a slur. I don't know what else to tell you. But it looks like you actually want to use a slur and are trying to justify it which given your posting history wouldn't be a shock.

It never even occurred to me that being referred to as "cis" was an insult.



I think it is so easy to be respectful. People act like some huge burden has been placed on them by being asked to use preferred pronouns and such. I don't get it. I also don't get why it's so hard to understand why people would want to see themselves reflected in popular media.

And again, let's see how the characters actually are in the show.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well to me the Latinx is a crap one, Its probably a white guy/girl slapping a label, to be hip or some crap, while 90% or more of the Hispanic community is like.. what? Whats wrong with Hispanic? there's no gender in there.. Latino, Latina I understand. I don't know,
Makes no sense to me, and really don't give a crap what people want to call themselves.You do you, have fun. I accept people for who they are, reguardless of some pronoun or label. If there a good person, great. If there an asshole, then there an asshole. not because of some label, because THEY are an ass.

As for the abuse part..
Ex wife was abused, and had a crap dad, I mean complete floating turd. And she abused me while I was with her. and she said one day.. I had a crap dad, so I have to be crap since he was my dad.. Kind of blew me away. Was also BiPolar. I tried my best, but Cie la Vie..

 

[Mudd]

Well to me the Latinx is a crap one, Its probably a white guy/girl slapping a label, to be hip or some crap, while 90% or more of the Hispanic community is like.. what?

Yes, but because you've decided that this is "probably the way it is" doesn't make you right or make your opinion particularly relevant to anything. It's helpful to do at least the minimal online investigation that we laughingly pass off as "research" these days in order to collect at least a little data before forming too fixed an opinion on something.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Remember the LatinHawks from Justice League?

A Thanagarian Invasion, and every "R" rolling actor involved was sourced south of the border.

 

[cultcross]

@Locutus of Bored has already asked that the thread be about the show and the newly introduced characters.

Given that the etymology and acceptability of Latinx as a term is not remotely related to this announcement about Discovery, perhaps we could wander back to the topic?

 

[UssGlenn]

I've used Latinx for a while, honestly without knowing whether there was a consensus in the Latin American community around it. Evidently not, but is it controversial?

You know if a conservative outlet came up with Latinx to anglicize Spanish, it would be decried as horribly racist.

there's no gender in there.. Latino, Latina I understand. I don't know,

What gets me is there is already a gender neutral form of Latino and Latina: Latin. Already commonly used when describing food, music and people. Someone felt the need to invent a nonsense word because the existing term wasn't "special" enough.


edit: posted at the same time as cultcross

 

[Crazyewok]

Been around for quite a while.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx

The fact it seemed to originate withing US college campuses is why a lot of south Americans find it offensive, not to mention for them the term latinx doesnt make sense.

The idea that a English speaking western nation can judge and determine a change to their language understandably pisses them off and smacks of cultural imperialism.
If you use the term in most of south America you will be laughed at if lucky, at worst punched in the face for being a arrogant patronising westerner.

 

[valkyrie013]

And its hard to pronounce in Spanish, and sorry, I gave it more.. Only 2% accept it, and that is only in university settings.
If you want to use it, have at it, but it would be better as a descriptive of a single person like Latina or Latino, Lantinx as another gender pronoun, and not trying to describe the Whole community like Hispanic, or Latin does.
and it is "Linguistic Imperialism"

Edit: Okay Moderator, no more from me on Latinx

 

[Crazyewok]

And its hard to pronounce in Spanish,

Yup another reason I think they hate it. A worse letter couldn't have been picked.

My fiancee from south America and it pisses her off. I sometimes use it to wind her up
OOPs just saw the mod warning.

Sorry.....

 

[JulieYBM]

Going to be interesting if he we scenes of new characters taking HRT. Good ol' medicine montages are the best.

 

[eschaton]

I can't say I didn't expect the worst when this was announced. I'm just tired. I get this shit from customers at my job, I get from strangers, I get it from my own family. I've loved Star Trek my whole life and they finally add a trans character, but I don't even get to enjoy that because of other Star Trek fans. Fans who despite claiming to love a franchise about how much better we are by working together and celebrating our diversity saw that and decided that queer people just aren't welcome in that future.

Again, I absolutely thing trans people, identity, and issues should be represented more in media - even in fiction. I'm just not sure it makes sense to depict all of this in all science fictional stories.

I mean, to give an example, in The Culture series of novels by Iain Banks, nearly everyone freely switches genders over the course of their (long) lives whenever they feel like it. The main character in the novel Player of Games is explicitly singled out for being somewhat weird because he doesn't want to transition to be a woman for a period. Since 90%+ of people are what we would consider trans (at least at some point in their life) the idea of a discrete trans identity doesn't make much logical sense, because the idea of concrete genders doesn't make much sense. People aren't male or female, they just take on that role for a period until they get bored, then switch things up.

I guess it comes down to what kind of sci-fi you prefer, to some degree. I kind of prefer that far-future sci-fi show a culturally alien landscape rather than just be a mirror held up to the present. If we want that, we can use a near-future sci-fi setting instead. This is one reason it's always irked me that Star Trek has always been fairly decent with racial representation, but shown very few interracial humans. The logical conclusion of centuries of humans living in a post-racist era, constantly moving around, is that most people will be racially ambiguous, not easily slotted into the current "races."

 

[JulieYBM]

Cis people envisioning a future in which modern trans people are not welcomed is not exactly comforting. That trans-ness is boiled down to "everyone is trans at some point" just...does not understand what it's like being trans. Being trans is not a choice, being trans is not "I was one gender but became another" it's every moment of one's life, whether presenting, whether on HRT or whether having undergone other medical procedures.

 

[eschaton]

Cis people envisioning a future in which modern trans people are not welcomed is not exactly comforting. That trans-ness is boiled down to "everyone is trans at some point" just...does not understand what it's like being trans. Being trans is not a choice, being trans is not "I was one gender but because another" it's every moment of one's life, whether presenting, whether on HRT or whether having undergone other medical procedures.

But fundamentally speaking, everything about us is either based in biology or based in culture. Culture changes, and certainly we're basically a generation away from being able to change our biology as well. Therefore every part of who we are as humans - ever aspect of our identity - is contingent. Unless I suppose you're a dualist and think that our gender is some sort of essential life force imparted upon us through ensoulment or something.

I mean, fundamentally speaking, I have no doubt that with advanced enough technology you could not only change my physical expression of gender, but my own internal sense of gender identity (or sexual orientation, for that matter). This is not something I find personally offensive to consider as a straight cis person, though I have no particular desire to do so. I have read science fiction books where there are little to no white people, little to no men, little to no straight people, etc and I didn't feel challenged by any of them. My identity is not so important that it has to exist until the end of time

 

[Awesome Possum]

Again, I absolutely thing trans people, identity, and issues should be represented more in media - even in fiction. I'm just not sure it makes sense to depict all of this in all science fictional stories.

I mean, to give an example, in The Culture series of novels by Iain Banks, nearly everyone freely switches genders over the course of their (long) lives whenever they feel like it. The main character in the novel Player of Games is explicitly singled out for being somewhat weird because he doesn't want to transition to be a woman for a period. Since 90%+ of people are what we would consider trans (at least at some point in their life) the idea of a discrete trans identity doesn't make much logical sense, because the idea of concrete genders doesn't make much sense. People aren't male or female, they just take on that role for a period until they get bored, then switch things up.

I guess it comes down to what kind of sci-fi you prefer, to some degree. I kind of prefer that far-future sci-fi show a culturally alien landscape rather than just be a mirror held up to the present. If we want that, we can use a near-future sci-fi setting instead. This is one reason it's always irked me that Star Trek has always been fairly decent with racial representation, but shown very few interracial humans. The logical conclusion of centuries of humans living in a post-racist era, constantly moving around, is that most people will be racially ambiguous, not easily slotted into the current "races."

I consider the lack of trans people to be a weakness of those stories, a lot of science fiction tends to ignore gay and trans people with the exception of maybe using them as fetish material. These writers, who were almost always cis men, did not understand trans people and it shows. A truly realistic scifi future is going to include gay and trans people because we've always been here and we always will be here and wacky scifi tech isn't going to change that. You can rationalize and justify this all you want, but what you're describing is erasure and bordering on genocide.

 

[JulieYBM]

But fundamentally speaking, everything about us is either based in biology or based in culture. Culture changes, and certainly we're basically a generation away from being able to change our biology as well. Therefore every part of who we are as humans - ever aspect of our identity - is contingent. Unless I suppose you're a dualist and think that our gender is some sort of essential life force imparted upon us through ensoulment or something.

I mean, fundamentally speaking, I have no doubt that with advanced enough technology you could not only change my physical expression of gender, but my own internal sense of gender identity (or sexual orientation, for that matter). This is not something I find personally offensive to consider as a straight cis person, though I have no particular desire to do so. I have read science fiction books where there are little to no white people, little to no men, little to no straight people, etc and I didn't feel challenged by any of them. My identity is not so important that it has to exist until the end of time

You're acting like this isn't what trans people have been doing for thousands of years already. We use hormones, clothes, surgery, body movements and vocal inflection to signal that "The gender you might perceive us as is because of your society's wacky ideas about gender are not our actual gender".

Like, if you're saying "Haha, I'd totally change to a girl's body" as a supposed 'man' then I've got news for you honey.

 

[Crazyewok]

Going to be interesting if he we scenes of new characters taking HRT. Good ol' medicine montages are the best.

Why would they include that unless there is a plot reason?

You didn't see the older ladies in trek taking their HRT either.

It would be like including a scene of a character wiping their arse. Mundane irellevence.

I got no issue with the new characters by the way. But just think something like HRT is going down a tangent.

 

[JulieYBM]

Why would they include that unless there is a plot reason?

You didn't see the older ladies in trek taking their HRT either.

It would be like including a scene of a character wiping their arse. Mundane irellevence.

I got no issue with the new characters by the way. But just think something like HRT is going down a tangent.

I'd take a scene of someone wiping their ass, actually. Mundane is good. Gimme a scene where two characters get into a fist fight while discussing how they want their eggs done and Suru has to come in a break it up.Gimme a scene where a character breaks a nail. Gimme a scene with a long-monologue where a character describes the appeal of sour gummy worms to a friend.

 

[XCV330]

Yes, but because you've decided that this is "probably the way it is" doesn't make you right or make your opinion particularly relevant to anything. It's helpful to do at least the minimal online investigation that we laughingly pass off as "research" these days in order to collect at least a little data before forming too fixed an opinion on something.

You will probably find a lot of varying opinions within discussion forums on the internet, even the English speaking ones. I am not a native Spanish speaker, but what I have found (so this is anecdotal) is that it does tend to offend because, for starters, "not invented here". A language is one of the most important constructs and pillars of culture. When you fuck with that from the outside, it is going to bother people, no matter how well meaning the originator of the word might be. An eye drop might as well be a toothpick, by then.

You likewise won't find many Hispanic people use the term. Why would they? The correct term was already referenced. To break it down further, if one needs to really put people in their geographic compartment, there is Latino-American, etc. Spanish isn't like English. It is a consistent language with a more or less sane spelling system and grammer. There is no place for a word ending in X. That's something English will bear the load and strain in as it excepts yet another modifier to an already bloated vocabulary and grammar. Again, not needed, not wanted.

Language has to be natural. It generally bulldozes attempts to reform it abruptly or introduce concepts artificially. Not a lot of books written in Shavian, these days.

When you have a very tiny, albeit extremely vocal, minority trying to make so monumental a change, and Latinx IS a monumental change, the same as if the rest of the world suddenly decided Americans would be called Amcyn and we were to use that because it was not offending anyone and if we keep calling ourself anything else we're heartless troglodytes. Give it awhile, terms will sort thhemselves out. In the meantime:
https://www.pewresearch.org/hispani...anics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/

 

[Awesome Possum]

There's been a scene of two characters brushing their teeth, you can do anything in a scene as long there is dialogue or something to continue the plot.