News Trans character announced

[Michael]

I fail to see how someone can seriously claim to feel insulted by being called “cishet”. It's just a description of what they are. I mean, it's almost a scientific designation. It's like someone insisting on not being called “human being” because they allegedly feel insulted by it. It's just a ridiculous stance to have, I think. And I'm curious, what would people who feel insulted by “cisgender heterosexual” want to be called? It's a descriptor that was explicitly introduced to avoid calling their gender or sexuality “normal” or anything else othering LGBTQ+ folks.

 

[NCC-73515]

I remember there was a kid at my junior high (middle school to you Americans) who actually had to spend science class sitting out in the hallway because his ultra religious parents didn't want him exposed to that particular form of blasphemy.

What a good life and prosperous future these parents provide
Do you know what kind of education/job that kid got later?

I fail to see how someone can seriously claim to feel insulted by being called “cishet”. It's just a description of what they are. I mean, it's almost a scientific designation. It's like someone insisting on not being called “human being” because they allegedly feel insulted by it. It's just a ridiculous stance to have, I think. And I'm curious, what would people who feel insulted by “cisgender heterosexual” want to be called? It's a descriptor that was explicitly introduced to avoid calling their gender or sexuality “normal” or anything else othering LGBTQ+ folks.

Some hets are offended by being called heterosexuals because they don't know what it means XD
If you had no idea what eyes and ears are, and someone called you "two-eyed, double-eared guy", you might think it's an offense XD

 

[The Wormhole]

What a good life and prosperous future these parents provide
Do you know what kind of education/job that kid got later?

No clue, in fact I only saw him around school during the seventh grade, he seemed to disappear after that. I'm guessing his parents probably pulled him out of the sinful and blasphemous public school and he got homeschooled after that.

He was a strange kid in general. I remember one time walking by him on the way home after school, he asked me what road I lived on, I told him, he responded "you're safe then. Everyone on [another road] is going to get killed." After that, I made a point of avoiding him at all costs. Even one time voluntarily going among the bullies knowing I would get my ass kicked.

 

[valkyrie013]

how about, just not calling them anything? Hi my name is Kenneth.. Ta da! I don't need any labels attached as a discrptive to me because to me labels are like opinons.. bunch of Bs.. Keep on being put in ever smaller boxes and cut off from others because I'm not part of there box.. lets just nuke the box..
As said by Morgan Freeman ( as quoted in previous thingy)
I'm not White Heterosexual Male Kenneth, I'm just Kenneth. Hi! How are ya'll?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I fail to see how someone can seriously claim to feel insulted by being called “cishet”. It's just a description of what they are. I mean, it's almost a scientific designation. It's like someone insisting on not being called “human being” because they allegedly feel insulted by it. It's just a ridiculous stance to have, I think. And I'm curious, what would people who feel insulted by “cisgender heterosexual” want to be called? It's a descriptor that was explicitly introduced to avoid calling their gender or sexuality “normal” or anything else othering LGBTQ+ folks.

Indeed. /Teal'c

 

[The Wormhole]

I've long suspected those who consider "cis" an offensive term are just annoyed because they think people are calling them a "sissy."

 

[Tuskin38]

I think the Federation for the most part seem to let their worlds make up their own rules. I am guessing the only thing they insist on is no death penalty and a one world government.


Jason

Well, when Bajor went back to their Caste system in that one DS9 episode, it was said that would harm their entry into the Federation.

 

[fireproof78]

It's like someone insisting on not being called “human being” because they allegedly feel insulted by it.

Seen that, so it's not on the outside of possibility.

how about, just not calling them anything? Hi my name is Kenneth.. Ta da! I don't need any labels attached as a discrptive to me because to me labels are like opinons.. bunch of Bs.. Keep on being put in ever smaller boxes and cut off from others because I'm not part of there box.. lets just nuke the box..
As said by Morgan Freeman ( as quoted in previous thingy)
I'm not White Heterosexual Male Kenneth, I'm just Kenneth. Hi! How are ya'll?

In general, I agree. But, in my (limited) experience people who are trans or non-binary don't feel like they fit, and finding those labels helps them to define themselves and those around them. So, while it is unimportant to you (and to me) it is important to them, and that is deserving of respect.

 

[1001001]

how about, just not calling them anything? Hi my name is Kenneth.. Ta da! I don't need any labels attached as a discrptive to me because to me labels are like opinons.. bunch of Bs.. Keep on being put in ever smaller boxes and cut off from others because I'm not part of there box.. lets just nuke the box..
As said by Morgan Freeman ( as quoted in previous thingy)
I'm not White Heterosexual Male Kenneth, I'm just Kenneth. Hi! How are ya'll?

Seems to me that those “boxes” are important to understanding how people experience reality. I understand that people are complicated and diverse, and how I view a certain environment may be very different than someone in “another box”.

I don’t think it’s helpful to assume that identity is meaningless to experience.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Seen that

I wouldn't lose any sleep over calling them a human being anyway, whenever the need might arise, because it would be extremely dysfunctional of them to die on that hill, metaphorically speaking.

 

[Mudd]

Many white people are salty and crumble under the least bit of pressure, cracker sounds perfect to me.

That's racist. You're cancelled.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's only with Humans.

Denobulans can do what they want, and bynars staple microchips into their babies.

Denobulans are probably all bisexual.

Everyone has three spouses.

So you can end up with 40 people in a swimming pool brimming in KY jelly, all intermarried, and all f*cking.

Isn't that an episode of Sense8*?

*Spellcheck did not flag "Sense8"

 

[Mudd]

Seems to me that those “boxes” are important to understanding how people experience reality. I understand that people are complicated and diverse, and how I view a certain environment may be very different than someone in “another box”.

I don’t think it’s helpful to assume that identity is meaningless to experience.

Seems to me that those “boxes” are important to understanding how people experience reality. I understand that people are complicated and diverse, and how I view a certain environment may be very different than someone in “another box”.

Two people you've assigned to the same box may have very dissimilar experiences of reality. Categories are created for use in limited contexts.

Categories are important mainly in eliminating the need to think very much at all.

 

[1001001]

I am talking about “self-assignment”.

People can decide that for themselves to some degree, and for many people, that “self-assignment” is not insignificant.

A personal example: my family immigrated to the United States for Northern Ireland in the 1920’s (Carrickfergus). From that information, I have had people actually correct me when I say I am Irish, including on this very board (“You’re not Irish, you’re English”).

And I tell them no, my great grandparents were Irish Catholics. Republicans.

I think I am allowed to identify myself, as are other people. And those identities we embrace have meaning for experience.

I grant your point regarding categorizing others, and you point that there is diversity among categories.

 

[Fateor]

A label isn’t a slur and cishet isn’t harmful unless you find the idea of being inclusive of LGBTQ+ people is harmful, which would make you a bigot.

A label is a slur if the person the label is being used on decides it is such.

And no, you don't get to decide that makes them a bigot, because you aren't the one that label is being used on.

 

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, and calling someone "Karen" is intended to be hurtful. It's tagging someone with a mocking stereotype. It's also remarkably childish in its hypocrisy. "Cis" and "cishet" aren't loaded or hurtful in conception.

Now of course in current dialogue it isn't just a question of whether a term is intended as a slur, or not. Intent may matter, but folks use a lot of hurtful terms for others in ignorance of the fact that they're hurtful or why. And we do live in a culture where the feeling aroused in an individual by an action is often understood to trump* the intent or content of the action as it might be seen by a non-participant who's not invested in the context.

Trying to apply the same rules to everyone is nice as "playground justice, " but at the end of the day, what matters most is the extent to which the person being labeled is vulnerable or can really be hurt by the thing they're objecting to. Being called a "cracker" never carries much threat with it, does it? Why should you care?

*God, we're going to need a new word, aren't we? Fuck him.

Karens refer to racist white women who use their 'white woman fragility' to intentionally get Black men murdered. Karens can go fuck themselves. If memory serves the term also comes from Black women, too. White people don't get to call 'Karen' childish because they aren't the ones being murdered by Karens' racism.

Thinking about it, no one is really insulted about being called heterosexual (though a lot probably prefer the slang term straight - arguably because it's less clinical). Maybe part of the the issue is that cisgender is such a new term?

I do think there's something that strikes me a bit wrong about using "cishet" as a conjunction/slang term (as opposed to using heterosexual or cisgender individually), because it implies that this class of people share certain commonalities which they may not. I suppose it's the flipside of the endless expansion of LGBTQ+, which can include intersex, asexual, enby, two-spirit, etc, which leaves cishet whatever's left over once all the interesting bits are taken out. What does an ace person, for example, actually have in common with someone who is LGBTQ? In all areas of life except perhaps the expectation that others have of dating/sexual contact, they can present as heterosexual and cisgender (though they don't have to).

Really though, everyone is somewhere on the spectrum when it comes to gender identity and sexuality, even if it's minimal for a lot of heterosexual and cisgender people, so I don't think this sort of metaphorical "circling the wagons" really helps with understanding. We should be tearing down the boundaries of gender and sexuality.

Asexuality is a form of queerness. Ace folks are hunted down in part because of their queerness. What your asking is no different than asking if a cishet-passing white trans woman is still queer. Someone might have cishet-passing privilege but they're also still queer.

Furthermore, aromantic people are also valid and a part of the queer community.

A label is a slur if the person the label is being used on decides it is such.

And no, you don't get to decide that makes them a bigot, because you aren't the one that label is being used on.

White cishet people don't get to decide if the people they systemically shit down on and murder are being Big Ol' Meanies to them. They don't get to say they're being 'slurred'. That's the privilege of not being a part of a marginalized community.

 

[UssGlenn]

Ace folks are hunted down in part because of their queerness.

Citation needed

 

[JulieYBM]

Citation needed

Yeah, just as much as other queer people they are ostracized for their sexuality.

There are ace cis people, ace trans people, ace two-spirits and ace enbies so even within the queer community you will still see acephobia.

 

[valkyrie013]

@JulieYBM I tried to read that 2nd paragraph 3 times.. still didn't make any sense. Guess I'm old.

As for the Cis, hetor normative, whatever (I was bad at english with just regular pronouns..) people don't get to decide?

Well according to the Woke rulebook, its not the ones who "say" something that get to say if its bad, its the person its told "Perceved" badness. So. If I say Cracker is a bad word, its not up to you who says it, it up to me who hears it that makes it bad.

Also a good rule I was told, Say a sentence, reverse the Race/Gender/Etc. of the sentence, if it is Racist, bigot, homophobic, then it IS racist, bigot, homophobic to that original person, regardless of Race, gender, etc.

 

[JulieYBM]

@JulieYBM I tried to read that 2nd paragraph 3 times.. still didn't make any sense. Guess I'm old.

Ace people are wide and varied and within the queer community there are acephobes just like there are transphobes and biphobes.

@JulieYBM
As for the Cis, hetor normative, whatever (I was bad at english with just regular pronouns..) people don't get to decide?

You get to decide if you are heterosexual and cisgender.

@JulieYBM
Well according to the Woke rulebook, its not the ones who "say" something that get to say if its bad, its the person its told "Perceved" badness. So. If I say Cracker is a bad word, its not up to you who says it, it up to me who hears it that makes it bad.

Also a good rule I was told, Say a sentence, reverse the Race/Gender/Etc. of the sentence, if it is Racist, bigot, homophobic, then it IS racist, bigot, homophobic to that original person, regardless of Race, gender, etc.

Nobody uses the word 'Woke', it's a made-up nonsense word from conservatives to try and paint People of Color and queer people as ridiculous and wimpy. It's just propaganda nonsense.

Cis people aren't being murdered and discriminated against because they're cis. Despite systemic persecution queer people and People of Color still mostly refrain from violence and when they do resort to violence it's self-defense. You cannot expect people whom are routinely beat, murdered, enslaved through arrest, raped, kept in economic desperation and kept from healthcare and then cry to Mommy when they turn to arms to defend themselves.