• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

News Trans character announced

Status
Not open for further replies.
No. Just no. I hope that someday you'll realize that not everyone who isn't politically correct is out to get you. And cisgender people most definitely are the norm. I'm not saying that being trans is bad in any way, but it's not normal in the sense that it's not ordinary, usual or typical, which is the dictionary definition of normal.

While I agree everyone who isn't politically correct isn't bad I think trans is normal. I mean everything that exists is basically normal because it's always there and part of our existence. It's just that it was never accepted as normal for along time. I think you can say it's not as common if were going by simple numbers. Last report I read is 95% of people identify as straight were as 4% identify as LGBTQ. Those numbers of course can be somewhat in flux because of someone being afraid to admit they are LGBTQ.

Jason
 
/\Who benefits most from a fractious and fractured society?

I give up, who?

Not me or the guy who's trying to sell me shampoo.

The NRA, maybe?

Jayson, I think this is another situation where you're overthinking in a vacuum of relevant experience, and it's probably not going to end real well.
 
Expecting an 89 year old to expand their worldview is like getting mad at a toddler for having a short attention span. Do some research into what happens to the brain when it gets onto the eighties and nineties. I hope when you get to be in that age range people show you more understanding than you're showing Shatner. Understanding and empathy is a 2 way street.
 
Expecting an 89 year old to expand their worldview is like getting mad at a toddler for having a short attention span. Do some research into what happens to the brain when it gets onto the eighties and nineties. I hope when you get to be in that age range people show you more understanding than you're showing Shatner. Understanding and empathy is a 2 way street.
Generational shit is pretty much the same no matter where you sit, if you let it anger you. I have trouble getting along with my mother these days because she's so conservative and generally politically ignorant. But hell, she's 88. So...

Empathy isn't transactional, is it?
 
In the enlightened utopia of the Star Trek Future the almost certainly cis gender characters we've known for years, should already be saying cis or trans every time they talk about gender, even if there isn't a transgender person to be seen for light years.

Social harmony.

Although if every one is cool, and it's not a big deal any more, then it's most likely that they drop cis and trans, because cis men and trans men are all men and cis women and trans women are all women, then creating the distinction is pointless and harmful.

How many lifetimes of other gender's experiences were fed into Riker when he joined with Odan?

Oh.

If the simbiont is Odan, then we get Frakes appearances when they do those mystical Trill religious ceremonies.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Last edited:
In the early 2000's the producers of the Enterprise had a meeting with Shatner about being a possible guest star for an episode. During the meeting, his phone rang and they had to help him answer it. That was over 15 years ago. He's 89 years old and doesn't have alot of time left on this world. I would just ask you to please leave him out of this.
 
In the early 2000's the producers of the Enterprise had a meeting with Shatner about being a possible guest star for an episode. During the meeting, his phone rang and they had to help him answer it. That was over 15 years ago. He's 89 years old and doesn't have alot of time left on this world. I would just ask you to please leave him out of this.

I'd ask him to not use his platform to be a transphobe, direct his followers towards trans people trying to correct him or being a target for TERFs to try and recruit new, unsuspecting minds into hating trans people, especially us women.

But no, let's make sure the people who have to fear their for their lives any time they leave their house, see a cop or have a Supreme Court case come up also take on all the burden when a fucking millionaire celebrity starts using their platform to spread bullshit.
 
I don't see what being a millionaire has to do with this. To say that Shatner wants trans people tortured and killed or is using dog whistles is disingenuous. You expect understanding and tolerance in everyone but yourself. The fact that you can't stop attacking an 89 year old man speaks more about you than it does him.
 
I don't see what being a millionaire has to do with this. To say that Shatner wants trans people tortured and killed or is using dog whistles is disingenuous. You expect understanding and tolerance in everyone but yourself. The fact that you can't stop attacking an 89 year old man speaks more about you than it does him.

Yes, me and my platform of exactly one forum thread and six people have the same weight as William Fucking Shatner and his 2.5 million Twitter followers and whoever the hell else likes and might give him an ear across the planet. All on the heels of JK Rowling's transphobic Twitter rants, too!
 
I simply said we should leave the very young and very old out of it. You can't seem to even mention him without being a potty mouth.
 
Age doesn't give him a pass. He's riling up his massive fan base on Twitter to pile on marginalized people just because he has a weird notion of the word "cis" being offensive AND he refuses to listen when people of said marginalized group tell him that what he's doing is harmful. I don't really care if he's 89 or 49 or 19 - that sort of behavior is inexcusable.
 
I agree but saying I don't want to be called a ciss male is not really a slur. It's just him not wanting other people to tell him how he should define himself. Also understanding very much matters because you never know where people are getting their info. Also if someone is calling you something in a fight then it's a good bet they are not using it in away to educate them but to dismiss.

Jason

Would you say the same if he was saying the that about being called heterosexual? Or white? Because both can come up in fights about stuff involving marginalized groups in the exact same spot cis might be used.

In any case, getting worked up about a word that you don't know is stupid. It's like someone who's not a native speaker getting worked up because during an argument someone called them "pal" and clearly that must be a slur!

As my avatar shows, I'm one of the marginalized people, and even though cops have treated me badly in my life (stopped and questioned at 15 on suspicion of looking like a person who'd committed a robbery, arrested in my late 20's because of the accusation of being an arsonist just because my name was found on a piece of paper that I'd thrown out in garbage that was burned in the fire which was set in my own apartment building by somebody else), I don't think that all cops are bastards, nor do I want police departments defunded. What would this actor do if somebody had assaulted him or robbed him, and he wanted to have said person dealt with-would he take the law into his own hands? Or-like anybody else-would he call the police because this person's a threat to public safety?



The religious, yes: the wealthy? I doubt it.

The phrase "All cops are bastards" refers to the simple reality that not all cops have top be actively horrible to be complicit. You see it every time an actual good cop speaks out about the bad behavior of his colleagues (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/what-police-departments-do-whistle-blowers/613687/). You don't make it far in the police force if you're a good cop (https://www.ktvu.com/news/the-dilem...ing-out-wrongdoing-can-end-an-officers-career and https://www.huffpost.com/entry/balt...EcnPAcvJh_EyAFgGAYDb_hEHWdNqBifEhGEi1E2U2OYin).

You see it every time when cops as a unit stand besides those that behave reprehensible, like when the entirety of a special police unit quit in solidarity after their colleagues pushed a 75 year old protester to the ground and just left him bleeding from a head wound (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html). And every time a cop is punished with suspension with pay, so he can return to his post when the heat died down.

If cops are either actively bad, passively bad by not saying anything and therefore complicit, or do say something and are then bullied or removed from the force, that leaves us with all cops being bastards.

As for defunding them, there's good arguments for "unbundling" services that are arguably not tasks armed police officers should be doing in the first place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police), for example that 21% of police time are spend responding to and transporting people with mental illness. And consequently 1 in 4 people killed by police are mentally ill. So the argument is to take away some funding from the police and put it into a new service with employees who are actually trained to deal with mentally ill people. Or put some funding for the police into social outreach programs to prevent violence and crime, instead of just responding to it. And I can't say I disagree with that argument. I really like this quote (from this article: https://mises.org/wire/police-departments-are-over-funded-its-all-about-priorities):

With 39 percent of murders unsolved every year, but with SWAT teams being used to deliver warrants to nonviolent suspects, and people who smoke joints on occasion, it's obvious that there is a disconnect between a priorities list that serves police departments, and one that serves taxpayers.
 
The divide between what original Trek did and what modern Trek tried to imitate pretty unsuccessfully in the 1990s has to do with the audience at which the shows were directed. TOS exemplifies what would have been derisively labeled the "Good White Liberal" syndrome in the 1960s: consciously or not, when the writers wrote about racism, etc. they were addressing middle class white people. No different than the PSAs Roddenberry wrote about equal opportunity and representation a few years before.

It's good that Jemison and Goldberg saw themselves in Uhura, but she was put on the bridge by white men to educate (or affirm) white folks. "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" is aimed squarely at assuaging and reassuring anxious whites that yes, African American protesters who adopt militant tactics are morally equivalent to their oppressors. Not much for most black viewers there, not really.

This is not the way diverse representation is understood now. Including and casting characters of diverse backgrounds, genders etc. is now for the sake of the folks they represent.

That's a lot of the context in which something like "The Outcast" was seen as well-intentioned by the older, somewhat out'-of-touch producers who shepherded it then, and is seen as offensive or hurtful now. It was targeted at straight viewers. It was recognized as outdated and wrong-headed by much of the TNG audience at the time, many of whom were much younger than the folks making the show.

You can find a fair amount of the contemporary usenet discussion about it through Google Groups, I think.
 
Last edited:
The divide between what original Trek did and what modern Trek tried to imitate pretty unsuccessfully has to do with the audience at which the shows were directed. TOS exemplifies much of what would have been derisively labeled the "Good White Liberal" syndrome in the 1960s: consciously or not, when the writers wrote about racism, etc. they were addressing middle class white people. No different than the PSAs Roddenberry wrote about equal opportunity and representation a few years before.

It's good that Jemison and Goldberg saw themselves in Uhura, but she was put on the bridge by white men to educate (or affirm) white folks. "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" is aimed squarely at assuaging and reassuring anxious whites that yes, African American protesters who adopt militant tactics are morally equivalent to their oppressors. Not much for most black viewers there, not really.

This is not the way diverse representation is understood now. Including and casting characters of diverse backgrounds, genders etc. is now for the sake of the folks they represent.

I'm skeptical of that last point, if only because these are still projects all being run by white liberals trying to placate and keep the white liberal audience from fearing said marginalized people. Nearly all of the trans and non-binary people I know are all deeply rooted in socialist, communist and anarchist ideologies--they're further left than Bernie Sanders, in other words. Centrist/neoliberal trans people do exist, of course, and they're just as frustrating as one might think.

Clearly the episodes have yet to air but I'm not expecting a truly accurate depiction of trans and gender non-binary peoples' political positions. In other words, I expect the game to be fixed. When trans people are running the show (literally and figuratively) then the project will be made for trans people. Until then I'm highly suspecting Adira and Gray to be inoffensive.
 
I'm skeptical of that last point, if only because these are still projects all being run by white liberals trying to placate and keep the white liberal audience from fearing said marginalized people.

That would be the primary reason for concern about how the characters will be handled, yes. There are at least more channels through which people provide corrective feedback now than there were then, both from the audience and within such productions, not least of which are the actors themselves.
 
Last edited:
No. Just no. I hope that someday you'll realize that not everyone who isn't politically correct is out to get you. And cisgender people most definitely are the norm. I'm not saying that being trans is bad in any way, but it's not normal in the sense that it's not ordinary, usual or typical, which is the dictionary definition of normal.
Wow imagine being this ignorant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top