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Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube fan.

Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

Some people find odd things to complain about. This guy feels that the new Star Trek movie messed up in its portrayal of San Francisco's buildings.

What a moron. Maybe San Francisco was destroyed in another great earthquake and then rebuilt.

Hell, I would've knocked down the bridge and replaced it with an updated one just to piss this idiot off.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

Unfortunetly ''SOME'' people like this ''Idiot'' can't live without bitching about SOMETHING. They take everything way too seriously.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

Some people find odd things to complain about. This guy feels that the new Star Trek movie messed up in its portrayal of San Francisco's buildings.

What a moron. Maybe San Francisco was destroyed in another great earthquake and then rebuilt.

Hell, I would've knocked down the bridge and replaced it with an updated one just to piss this idiot off.

Wasn't that actually in a Trek book? Obviously they aren't canon, but that sounds familiar to me.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

Tall buildings in a city?! How delightfully absurd!

How are the bums living in the streets of that large warehouse district supposed to get a good view of the fog covered landscape? Outrageous!
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

Tall buildings in a city?! How delightfully absurd!

On my last visit to the City, there were tons of high-rise condos and other buildings being constructed. I don't think it's far of a stretch that project a drastic change in the cityscape. It's ALREADY changing.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

I personally don't mind the tall buildings, but I'm not sure about the Coruscant-looking architecture. And it is a little weird that in the 23. century North America still has pollution issues (I'm used to seeing SF depicted as 'heaven on earth' in Trek).

As has been stated already, that's not smog, its fog. San Francisco get just a little bit of it every now and then...

golden-gate-fog-medium.jpg
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

When I saw the recent trailer of the new movie, which I liked, I was disappointed with the shot of San Francisco bay. With the memo you have quoted above it makes me wonder even more, if Abram's repeated claim of understanding Star Trek's core values is anything more than a sound bite.
While it does appear to be true that Earth has, by and large, been returned to its natural state, from what we saw on Voyager, and at the beginning of ST:V, and other places, that doesn't mean that humanity has abandoned Earth. In fact, I would assume that the presence humanity still has on Earth would be packed into the smallest areas possible - highrise cities, probably even more highrise than is possible now, utilizing anti-grav, force-fields, replicators, materials/polution/waste control, and future materials technologies. (We won't go fully underground, much. Most of us don't really like it.)

If one assumes that mankind has pulled back to 20 or so megacities at places like San Franscisco, Leningrad, Paris, Sydney, and so forth, even if each of those cities held 100 million people, that's still "only" about 2 billion people - only about a third of what we have now. Add maybe another few million living in small naturalist villages or maintaining tiny outposts of civilization (and providing clean-up) near things people would still want to visit, like beaches or the Grand Canyon, and you've still gone a long way toward putting the planet back to pristine.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

Yeah, and in Philadelphia they used to not build taller than "Willian Penn's Hat" on the statue on top of John McArthur, Jr.'s City Hall Building. But times and attitudes have changed and architects and city planners no longer follow that unwritten "rule". It has only been 22 years since the first building "higher than William Penn's hat" went up in Philadelphia, and since then several more have followed.

Who's to say that times and attitudes won't change in San Francisco -- just like they did in Philadelphia -- and buildings will begin to be built taller. We cannot predict what city planning activism will be like in 200 years (or even 100 years).

If TMP (made in 1979) had a scene where tall buildings were shown in Philadelphia, someone similar to this guy might have said "the height of the buildings in Philadelphia are all wrong -- nobody builds buildings higher than William Penn's Hat!"
 
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Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

I actually like what we have seen of the buildings in this new movie so far. One of my complaints about the TOS was it lacked the budget to show a futuristic earth. Even with the other movies and series we never got a good look at what a 23rd or 24th century Earth would look like. We just got periodic glimpses.

This movie looks to finally be able to show us in grand detail.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

When I saw the recent trailer of the new movie, which I liked, I was disappointed with the shot of San Francisco bay. With the memo you have quoted above it makes me wonder even more, if Abram's repeated claim of understanding Star Trek's core values is anything more than a sound bite.
While it does appear to be true that Earth has, by and large, been returned to its natural state, from what we saw on Voyager, and at the beginning of ST:V, and other places, that doesn't mean that humanity has abandoned Earth. In fact, I would assume that the presence humanity still has on Earth would be packed into the smallest areas possible - highrise cities, probably even more highrise than is possible now, utilizing anti-grav, force-fields, replicators, materials/polution/waste control, and future materials technologies. (We won't go fully underground, much. Most of us don't really like it.)

If one assumes that mankind has pulled back to 20 or so megacities at places like San Franscisco, Leningrad, Paris, Sydney, and so forth, even if each of those cities held 100 million people, that's still "only" about 2 billion people - only about a third of what we have now. Add maybe another few million living in small naturalist villages or maintaining tiny outposts of civilization (and providing clean-up) near things people would still want to visit, like beaches or the Grand Canyon, and you've still gone a long way toward putting the planet back to pristine.

I never suggested that man had abandoned earth. The point I was trying to make was that humans have more or less learnt to live in harmony with nature. I would also imagine that, quite possibly, a majority of people do not want to live in high density urban zones. Why do many people live in such areas today? Because of necessity. People have access to work and services which are unavailable or hard to reach in rural communities. As a result, they accept a significant reduction in the quality of their living environment (e.g. noise, pollution, much smaller homes). In the trekkian future such access has become universal all around the plant regardless of where you live. Thus the push and pull factors that suck people into cities today should be strongly diminished which should lead to deurbanisation.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

The thing too, is density. What kind of quality of life does one have in a city that is that densely packed with buildings and (one would presume) people? What would it be like to walk amongst those buildings? It may look kewl, but people gotta live there.
There are parts of San Francisco today which only get direct sunlight for a couple of hours around noon, so making some of the buildings even taller isn't going to change that very much. It's also true that San Francisco's geographic restrictions don't allow for very much expansion other than vertical, so again taller buildings make a certain amount of sense, the current building-height restrictions notwithstanding.

As far as the number of people goes, San Francisco currently has a population of less than three-quarters of a million, and it's more traffic problems and the price of housing which keep that number down than anything else. If modes of transport and supplying necessities were to be upgraded significantly (getting people out of their single-occupant vehicles and keeping them employed and fed, basically) then there'd be room for a lot more people to live and work there in perfect comfort and quality of life.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

The thing too, is density. What kind of quality of life does one have in a city that is that densely packed with buildings and (one would presume) people? What would it be like to walk amongst those buildings? It may look kewl, but people gotta live there.
There are parts of San Francisco today which only get direct sunlight for a couple of hours around noon, so making some of the buildings even taller isn't going to change that very much. It's also true that San Francisco's geographic restrictions don't allow for very much expansion other than vertical, so again taller buildings make a certain amount of sense, the current building-height restrictions notwithstanding.

As far as the number of people goes, San Francisco currently has a population of less than three-quarters of a million, and it's more traffic problems and the price of housing which keep that number down than anything else. If modes of transport and supplying necessities were to be upgraded significantly (getting people out of their single-occupant vehicles and keeping them employed and fed, basically) then there'd be room for a lot more people to live and work there in perfect comfort and quality of life.

Don't forget that in the Trek universe, major cities were likely destroyed during World War III (and LA by an earthquake), plus there's the fact that San Francisco became the capital of the Federation and likely a major space port hub and hub of interstellar immigration and tourism.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

Don't forget that in the Trek universe, major cities were likely destroyed during World War III (and LA by an earthquake), plus there's the fact that San Francisco became the capital of the Federation and likely a major space port hub and hub of interstellar immigration and tourism.

The capital of the Federation is Earth as a hole I believe. The office of the president is in Paris so that might be the capital city.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

I personally don't mind the tall buildings, but I'm not sure about the Coruscant-looking architecture. And it is a little weird that in the 23. century North America still has pollution issues (I'm used to seeing SF depicted as 'heaven on earth' in Trek).

As has been stated already, that's not smog, its fog. San Francisco get just a little bit of it every now and then...

golden-gate-fog-medium.jpg
Oh! Okay I thought that was all the ''HEAVY'' pollution coming from china!:lol:
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

The thing too, is density. What kind of quality of life does one have in a city that is that densely packed with buildings and (one would presume) people? What would it be like to walk amongst those buildings? It may look kewl, but people gotta live there.
There are parts of San Francisco today which only get direct sunlight for a couple of hours around noon, so making some of the buildings even taller isn't going to change that very much. It's also true that San Francisco's geographic restrictions don't allow for very much expansion other than vertical, so again taller buildings make a certain amount of sense, the current building-height restrictions notwithstanding.

As far as the number of people goes, San Francisco currently has a population of less than three-quarters of a million, and it's more traffic problems and the price of housing which keep that number down than anything else. If modes of transport and supplying necessities were to be upgraded significantly (getting people out of their single-occupant vehicles and keeping them employed and fed, basically) then there'd be room for a lot more people to live and work there in perfect comfort and quality of life.

Don't forget that in the Trek universe, major cities were likely destroyed during World War III (and LA by an earthquake), plus there's the fact that San Francisco became the capital of the Federation and likely a major space port hub and hub of interstellar immigration and tourism.

M'Sharak: It's true that many downtowns with large buildings have their share of "street canyons." It isn't necessarily considered a desirable effect of urban design. Imagine what it would be like to walk down street after street, blocks on end, with many of buildings the size of the Transamerica Pyramid on either side. Gloomy.
-- It's hard to say what the population of SF is at the time of the movie. Could be everyone is crammed into that area, for all we know. Given those structures in Iowa, however, that seems odd.
-- As far as building up goes, I guess the size restrictions are problematic, as earth-quake resistant designs have probably been improved over the decades. The size of the buildings isn't the deal to me. The number and density of them is. I'd think folks could live almost anywhere along the west coast in the 23rd century and make it to work in SF on time. I'd like to think that by then we'd have public transit down pat. Someone may still have a long commute one way, but it's from Seattle or San Diego, not San Jose.

Rat Boy: You raise a good point. One has to remember that we're seeing SF almost one century before TNG time. A lot could happen in between. I guess because it's the future, we lump it all together. But 2250 could be as different to 2350 as 1900 is to 2000.
That downtown could even be an artifact of a different time, too. Who knows how old many of those buildings are?
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

Thus the push and pull factors that suck people into cities today should be strongly diminished which should lead to deurbanisation.
Except:

1. Many factors of civilization are easier to contain, like pollution, or to make efficient, like energy production and distribution, inside a city.

2. Most of the reasons people don't want to live in a city would be gone. Crime is greatly reduced. Overcrowding isn't a big issue, since it isn't difficult to build up, and living space wouldn't be priced by volume like it is now. Distance from open skies, park areas, and even natural wonders, isn't a problem with transporters.

3. The reasons people would want to live in a city are intensified. Proximity to shops and such would be even more desirable when there's no price for anything, since browsing stuff would be better without worrying about economic concerns. Social activities, like plays and clubs - especially specialized clubs - would have better availability and more people participating due to more free time.

Even "street canyons" could be mitigated with transparent panels in buildings, satellites, and anti-grav light or reflective panels.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

As a Chicago native who is a recent transplant to a more rural area, I honestly think I might have something that I might be able to add to the conversation. For college, I recently moved out of Chicago and into a more rural area, and to put it quite simply, I hate it. I find it stupid and unnecessary that I have to live a fifteen minute drive from my college, a five minute drive from the store, et cetera. It's inconvenient, compared to when I lived in the city and could quite literally walk to and from the store, school, work, et cetera.

Even with transporters, quite possibly the ultimate public transportation, it's still an extra step, psychologically. Additionally, cities have an effect that for what has been the driving force of innovation throughout recent history, bringing people together. In a large city, you have more chance to meet and interact with people you share interests, beliefs, and strengths with than you would in a rural area, where going to meet anyone is another step, another hassle.
 
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Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

I personally don't mind the tall buildings, but I'm not sure about the Coruscant-looking architecture. And it is a little weird that in the 23. century North America still has pollution issues (I'm used to seeing SF depicted as 'heaven on earth' in Trek).

As has been stated already, that's not smog, its fog. San Francisco get just a little bit of it every now and then...

golden-gate-fog-medium.jpg
Oh! Okay I thought that was all the ''HEAVY'' pollution coming from china!:lol:

Extrapolating from our photograph above and the imagery provided by Abrams, relative to the Golden Gate and Coit Tower, where is the Academy supposed to be (I gather it is actually in the picture) relative to this photo?

This is a great SF photo to compare to the imagery Abrams used. Abrams' (or should I say, ILM's) San Francisco, has significantly greater urban density. According to what is LEFT of canon, San Francisco is headquarters of Star Fleet Command and the Federation Council. Paris was the capitol of United Earth. SF was, therefore, the political center of the Federation, and holds a place similar to Coruscant in Star Trek lore.

It would follow that San Francisco would have built up a huge beureaucratic structure in the Bay Area, extending into Marin County and down to Santa Clara, to feed, clothe, and house all the beureaucrats involved in running an interstellar federal government.

Remember, not all of these individuals are human and breathe oxygen.

As a consequence, Abrams' vision of San Francisco as a clean, tending towards "Blade Runneresque", city is appropriate given its role as capitol of an interstellar federal republic.

By the 23rd Century, they would have solved the question of tectonic stability as far as building construction is concerned.
 
Re: Trailer got SanFrancisco buildings too tall according to YouTube f

As a Chicago native who is a recent transplant to a more rural area, I honestly think I might have something that I might be able to add to the conversation. For college, I recently moved out of Chicago and into a more rural area, and to put it quite simply, I hate it. I find it stupid and unnecessary that I have to live a fifteen minute drive from my college, a five minute drive from the store, et cetera. It's inconvenient, compared to when I lived in the city and could quite literally walk to and from the store, school, work, et cetera.

Even with transporters, quite possibly the ultimate public transportation, it's still an extra step, psychologically. Additionally, cities have an effect that for what has been the driving force of innovation throughout recent history, bringing people together. In a large city, you have more chance to meet and interact with people you share interests, beliefs, and strengths with than you would in a rural area, where going to meet anyone is another step, another hassle.

People will want to live "where the action is", by and large, except that strata of society that prefers farming and rural life, which will still exist in that time period.

Secondly, basic economics will not have been cancelled out just because of the development of food and matter replicators. Otherwise, there's no reason for the existence of the Ferengi, or no value in Latinum. However, I can imagine a whole class of people who do NOT prefer to use the public transporter system because of the occasional "forming" accident. Ergo, public transit, private Jetsons aircars and whatnot.

Lastly, there will still be regular politics in this time period. The human condition is unchanging. Star Trek's vision is somewhat Marxian and based on economic determinism: solve the problems of the Means of Production and We All Go Boldly Where No Man Has Gone Before. Doesn't surprise me, being an intellectual product of the Post Second World War intellectual period, but it's an incomplete view of the way man does things. Man will always be in conflict with other men. Aristotle remarked that man is a political animal, and I don't think that that's been disproven.
 
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