Why not, are all Vulcans paragons of virtue? V'Las was a warmongering, lying dictator who the Vulcan people were happy to lead them even during their Andorian war and espionage.
T'Pol
- Thread starter Trekfan12
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"Are all Vulcans Paragons of Virtue?" is the question posed to me, here. Well ... one of the earliest Vulcans we get to meet, other than Spock, is his girlfriend T'Pring. Whilst he was away, the cat did play, in a not so Paragon of Virtuous way! As if that weren't enough, when Spock comes back in her Life, again, horny as all hell and quite public about the fact, T'Pring continues to manoeuvre him into her scheme to take control of his property. Why this is so important to her, we aren't told, except that Stonn is the Man she wants living on it with her. And he's just as open, honest and straightforward about all this as she is.
More even than that ... it is strongly hinted at that Sarek dumped the Vulcan Princess he was married to, when he got his first good look at Amanda Grayson in a tight, short skirt .... and high heels. So, little Sybok's parents split just as he entered into his Formative Years. And I strongly suspect that this trauma had a major influence over Sybok's emotional threshold. He stopped living in painful Reality ... and embraced living in a Dream World of his own devise. Even Spock, whose home life was much more stable, was greeted into this world by an indignant sniff by his repulsed father who declared him as being ".... so 'Human.'" Mind you ... Amanda was exactly right there, beside him, with her feet still in the styrups. Now ... this is not the whole of these kinds of Vulcanian shenanigans in STAR TREK. They are just the highlights. Resultantly, I'm forced to concede that Vulcans have not proven themselves to be as virtuous in practice ... as they are perceived to be, from the outside.
V'Las was probably Romulan, but seeing as how we don't know this for sure, it wasn't very "logical" for his outbursts, tirades and bouts of illogic to go unchallenged in any government setting, whether it be on Vulcan, Andoria, Xindi ... or even Earth. According to the show's own in-Universe logic, as voiced by Soval, Vulcan is a meritocracy. And yet, everything we see V'Las say and do incriminates him as unbalanced ... and unstable. This persists for no other reason than "it's in the script." Nearby Vulcans just try to stay out of his way, to avoid pissing him off. And for being such a "meritorious" society, it's interesting to note that there are no women on the High Council. Or, at least, none that I recall. Certainly none with any speaking lines. Hasn't Vulcan always been shown as a matriarchy?
Apparently this "corrupted version" of Sarek's teachings that -ENT- introduces into the STAR TREK lexicon is meant to excuse ALL of the many and varied shortcomings and contradictions of Vulcan society depicted on our television screens, at home. But even this is difficult to accept in light of The Living Spirit of Surak in the Syranite Camp. Surak would rather bitch to Archer about how the Vulcans have strayed, than actually straighten the path, himself? ... Seeing how he's still in the neighborhood, in a sense, and ... and all that. Besides which, he could've dictated many more volumes of the K'shara or whatever the balls it's called, over the past 2 millennia, or so. But he chose not to do that. Instead, he explores the chasms of his host's mind. And prays to Valhalla, that this host makes it to a Katra receptical Pretty Damn Quick, as Death draws near ...
More even than that ... it is strongly hinted at that Sarek dumped the Vulcan Princess he was married to, when he got his first good look at Amanda Grayson in a tight, short skirt .... and high heels. So, little Sybok's parents split just as he entered into his Formative Years. And I strongly suspect that this trauma had a major influence over Sybok's emotional threshold. He stopped living in painful Reality ... and embraced living in a Dream World of his own devise. Even Spock, whose home life was much more stable, was greeted into this world by an indignant sniff by his repulsed father who declared him as being ".... so 'Human.'" Mind you ... Amanda was exactly right there, beside him, with her feet still in the styrups. Now ... this is not the whole of these kinds of Vulcanian shenanigans in STAR TREK. They are just the highlights. Resultantly, I'm forced to concede that Vulcans have not proven themselves to be as virtuous in practice ... as they are perceived to be, from the outside.
V'Las was probably Romulan, but seeing as how we don't know this for sure, it wasn't very "logical" for his outbursts, tirades and bouts of illogic to go unchallenged in any government setting, whether it be on Vulcan, Andoria, Xindi ... or even Earth. According to the show's own in-Universe logic, as voiced by Soval, Vulcan is a meritocracy. And yet, everything we see V'Las say and do incriminates him as unbalanced ... and unstable. This persists for no other reason than "it's in the script." Nearby Vulcans just try to stay out of his way, to avoid pissing him off. And for being such a "meritorious" society, it's interesting to note that there are no women on the High Council. Or, at least, none that I recall. Certainly none with any speaking lines. Hasn't Vulcan always been shown as a matriarchy?
Apparently this "corrupted version" of Sarek's teachings that -ENT- introduces into the STAR TREK lexicon is meant to excuse ALL of the many and varied shortcomings and contradictions of Vulcan society depicted on our television screens, at home. But even this is difficult to accept in light of The Living Spirit of Surak in the Syranite Camp. Surak would rather bitch to Archer about how the Vulcans have strayed, than actually straighten the path, himself? ... Seeing how he's still in the neighborhood, in a sense, and ... and all that. Besides which, he could've dictated many more volumes of the K'shara or whatever the balls it's called, over the past 2 millennia, or so. But he chose not to do that. Instead, he explores the chasms of his host's mind. And prays to Valhalla, that this host makes it to a Katra receptical Pretty Damn Quick, as Death draws near ...
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Actually we have no idea what Sarek's relationship with Sybok's mother was like. We don't know why they broke up (or if they were ever married in the first place), we don't know if Sarek met Amanda before or after it, we know absolutely NOTHING about the circumstances.
Well, in his defense, Surak was dead at the time.
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Sir...........................................................
I like the idea of a Sarek finding a logical reason to ditch his Vulcan wife for the comely human in short skirts, legs and blonde hair. 
I read a well written fanfic where Spock was conceived outside of wedlock; hence his being treated like a real bastard by Vulcan society and the reason for the name calling of his mother.
I read a well written fanfic where Spock was conceived outside of wedlock; hence his being treated like a real bastard by Vulcan society and the reason for the name calling of his mother.
If Amanda actually looked like Wynona Rider, when her rose was in bloom, then Sarek simply had no alternative to rise to the occassion. Who would ever say "no" to that kind of hotness? You don't, because ... you just don't. It wouldn't be logical. You know what? I like this Fan Fiction concept you mentioned. Paying for Fan Fiction is the worst and it's usually not half as good as what's available for free. And believe me, when you tell you: there ain't no bigger $avings than FREE!
^ Please explain, what you think the word "subtle" means? 
Context, please ... I don't recall having used that word?
Sarek - Ms Grayson I am conducting a physical experiment on Terran - VT'osh relations would you care to participate?
Amanda - Certainly Mr Ambassador
Sarek (in ST09) said he married Amanda because he loved her. I see no reason to doubt this.
I just never wrapped my mind around Spock having a brother (outside of his friend Kirk. I liked to think they became brothers) Star V was a messy plot and, for me, I block out the whole idea of Sybok. For me he doesn't exist (I'm not trying to tell the rest of you how to think or whether you accept Sybok as part of the ST universe. It just never worked for me) I think of Spock as an only child.
Just because one has a brother does not mean your sibling is a best friend qualified to take on the title of friend as well as brother. Do you have siblings?
You're not alone in your assessment of TFF. However, I'm curious to know whether it's Spock's having Sybok as a brother, specifically, that's the problem? That if Sonak, from TMP was Spock's long, lost brother, that it might be more acceptable? A brother who looked more like a relation of Spock's and shared his reserved nature. Not one who looked nothing like Nimoy and acted more like Brian Blessed, than anyone from Vulcan.
Sarek loved Amanda, and probably did from the very first, which is how and why he likely found it logical to leave the Vulcan Princess he impregnated for her. For The Chosen Few, there is such a thing as Love at First Sight. For most, it takes time for lust to turn to Love. But, according to TFF, Sarek had an apparently low regard for Humans ... so, why did he marry one? The exception to the rule, perhaps? Or was Sarek somehow even more complex than STAR TREK let on?
Remember, also, this came along roughly a hundred years after T'Pol and yet? I remember seeing the marks of jealousy on her photogenic face, the moment she saw Trip trying to get with another woman, ahead of her, onboard Enterprise. That's when T'Pol made her move ... and she hated the smell of Humans! Again, it's kind of like ... what's the show going after, here? Is this to put emphasis on how in Love ... there are no rules? Is it just bad writing? Whatever the case, when Vulcans and Humans get together ... hypocrisy seems to abound!
"...and she hated the smell of Humans!"
As far as I can remember, this is implied and assumed, but never actually stated - which would make it ripe for 'retconning'.
Even in "The Andorian Incident" when one of the 'monks' notes that T'Pol has remained on the NX-01 "...but the smell..!"
Nobody ever says outright, that humans smell bad.
It may be that Vulcans find the odour of humans 'unsettling', or possibly (whisper it) arousing...
As far as I can remember, this is implied and assumed, but never actually stated - which would make it ripe for 'retconning'.
Even in "The Andorian Incident" when one of the 'monks' notes that T'Pol has remained on the NX-01 "...but the smell..!"
Nobody ever says outright, that humans smell bad.
It may be that Vulcans find the odour of humans 'unsettling', or possibly (whisper it) arousing...
But both humans and Vulcans agree that Klingons stink, if you recall that episode where they came upon the Klingon ship stuck in the gas giant's atmosphere. In DS9, O'Brien and Bashir also rib Worf about his scent, with O'Brien saying he has a peat-y aroma."...and she hated the smell of Humans!"
As far as I can remember, this is implied and assumed, but never actually stated - which would make it ripe for 'retconning'.
Even in "The Andorian Incident" when one of the 'monks' notes that T'Pol has remained on the NX-01 "...but the smell..!"
Nobody ever says outright, that humans smell bad.
It may be that Vulcans find the odour of humans 'unsettling', or possibly (whisper it) arousing...
I bet Klingons just never clean their ship. It's probably disgusting. That's why they turn the lights so dim
Klingons don't turn the lights dim; they're just so covered in grime it seems that way.
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