Spoilers TOS: The Captain's Oath by Christopher L. Bennett Review Thread

[Damian]

Picard's attitude wasn't really about Kirk specifically as much as the difference between the more lawless frontier of the 23rd century and the more tamed, civilized galaxy of the 24th, analogous to the Old West vs. the present-day American West. Picard's argument to Spock in "Unification" was that the old ways of Spock's youth would no longer cut it in the modern galaxy.

That's one of the reasons I don't really like comparing the original series to TNG. They were different eras, of course they are going to be different. It's not really fair to use 23rd century sensibilities when looking at the 24th century. What worked in the 23rd century may not be appropriate to the 24th. It's the same with the Prime Directive. It makes perfect sense that the focus of the PD may have changed by the time of TNG. The Rings of Tautee actually hinted at that at the end when Captain Bogle volunteers to be part of a team to review the PD for the future.

Now that works both ways of course. Writers sometimes, I think without realizing it, may inadvertently use 24th century sensibilities when writing a 23rd century story.

The Captain's Oath is incompatible with Inception's version of Kirk's early career.

Ok, good to know. It's weird. I usually remember something from the novels I read but I honestly can't remember a thing from Inception other than it featured Dr Marcus and Leila (the cover helps ). It just came to mind and I actually had to look up the title because I couldn't even remember that. Just a vague memory about a story I read a few years back that it featured a story of Kirk's earlier career.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

. . .But the idea of Kirk following in his father's footsteps goes back at least as far as Gold Key's Enterprise Logs Kirk bio from 1976, which says his late father Col. Benjamin Kirk was the "hero of the Klingon Repulsion," and that young Jimmy was "assured appointment to the Space Academy" as a consolation prize for his father dying in the line of duty. . . .

Beat me to it again. And remembered details I'd long forgotten (BENJAMIN Kirk?!? Ye Vish!).

At the same time, though, I would say that the Abramsverse treatment of young-Kirk-as-a-juvenile-delinquent squares surprisingly well with Carey's Best Destiny. And (as I recall, from having only read it once, over a decade ago) with Shatner's own Academy: Collision Course.

And Damian, you're doing better than I am on Inception. I don't remember it at all.

 

[Leto_II]

At the same time, though, I would say that the Abramsverse treatment of young-Kirk-as-a-juvenile-delinquent squares surprisingly well with Carey's Best Destiny. And (as I recall, from having only read it once, over a decade ago) with Shatner's own Academy: Collision Course.

Around the time of the release of the 2009 film, Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman gave an interview where they ranked their five favorite Star Trek novels of all time, and Best Destiny was one of these, cited by the screenwriters as a major influence on the Kelvinverse version of the Kirk-character from that movie.

 

[Christopher]

Beat me to it again. And remembered details I'd long forgotten (BENJAMIN Kirk?!? Ye Vish!).

More "looked up" than "remembered."

At the same time, though, I would say that the Abramsverse treatment of young-Kirk-as-a-juvenile-delinquent squares surprisingly well with Carey's Best Destiny.

Not so surprising, since Kurtzman & Orci named it as one of their favorite Trek novels, along with Spock's World, Prime Directive, and (preen, preen) Ex Machina.

 

[Damian]

And Damian, you're doing better than I am on Inception. I don't remember it at all.

It was something that just came to mind suddenly. I was thinking of novels that dealt with Kirks pre-WNMHGB and suddenly I remembered a book from a few years back that took place before he was Captain and involved Dr Marcus (and Leila for Spock). If I recall correctly it was basically 2 stories within the book. But I had to go on Memory Alpha to find the title (which took me a while).

I guess it wasn't a very memorable book

More "looked up" than "remembered."

Ha-ha. Memory-alpha is my friend when my, er, memory is failing me.

Oh,

(preen, preen) Ex Machina.

. I don't know why but that reminded me of a scene in Battle for the Planet of the Apes when Virgil is being complemented by Caesar about something and Virgil is seen preening at the complement

 

[Ronald Held]

Interesting explanation by Christopher: on a Constitution class vessel, the Captains Yeoman has a work room, not a ready room for the Captain.

 

[Christopher]

^As I said in the acknowledgments, the explanation for the lack of a Constitution ready room was inspired by a discussion on this very BBS, specifically a comment by jayrath.

 

[thribs]

One thing that confuses me about the battle. Why didn’t the Enterprise use it’s thousands of drones against the cylinders?

 

[Leto_II]

One thing that confuses me about the battle. Why didn’t the Enterprise use it’s thousands of drones against the cylinders?

Real-life reasons, IIRC — Christopher wrote this novel before he saw DSC season two, I think he mentioned somewhere.

 

[David cgc]

Real-life reasons, IIRC — Christopher wrote this novel before he saw DSC season two, I think he mentioned somewhere.

Watsonian answer: Number One and Cornwell said the fighters they brought were special-order, not standard equipment.

 

[F. King Daniel]

One thing that confuses me about the battle. Why didn’t the Enterprise use it’s thousands of drones against the cylinders?

Clearly, after the massive waste of shuttles and drones in the Disco S2 finale, Starfleet banned the Enterprise from having any until some time after "The Enemy Within"

 

[Damian]

I'm about halfway through now. You know what's always a little weird (though not in a bad way) is when Captain Kirk is thinking about some situation that Captain Archer was in. Kirk was contemplating whether to help some rebels or not and he was thinking about a similar situation that Captain Archer and Lt. Reed were in (I remember the episode but can't recall the name of the episode off hand).

I've read other original series novels over the years that reference Enterprise also. It's just funny to think the show was made decades after the original series but of course takes place a century earlier. And of course in actual canon the original series never reference Enterprise obviously (unless you include the throwaway line in Star Trek [2009] when they discuss Admiral Archer's missing beagle--and that's only if you think of it as THE Archer, which I do happen to believe, but others may feel otherwise).

I like when books do that. It's part of Star Trek history now. It's just a bit, I'm not sure of the word to use but I'll say interesting, to see Archer as someone Kirk looks to for inspiration since in reality Kirk came first I guess. But in story Archer came first.

I also noticed in the last TNG Dayton Ward also mentioned Archer, along with Georgiou. But for some reason, maybe because it's further removed, it's a bit different.

Perhaps part of it is also that everything out there is 'based on Star Trek' that is the original series, and it's funny to see something from the original series referencing a spin-off.

But again, I'm all for it. It makes perfect sense that in story Captain Kirk would look to Captain Archer for some of his inspiration, or in the case in the novel for guidance on how to handle (or not handle) a situation.

 

[JD]

Have you read From History's Shadow and Elusive Salvation? Those two are TOS novels, but have characters from TNG, DS9 and Enterprise in them.

 

[thribs]

The Communicator I believe was the name of the episode

 

[Damian]

Have you read From History's Shadow and Elusive Salvation? Those two are TOS novels, but have characters from TNG, DS9 and Enterprise in them.

Yep, and of course Destiny is the ultimate crossover story.

It just feels a little weird when thinking of Captain Kirk reminiscing about Captain Archer. When the original series actually aired there of course was no Archer. But it's not a complaint by any means. And it's totally appropriate, just like when Captain Picard may think of something Captain Kirk may have done in history.

 

[thribs]

We actually got a Xindi reference in this. They call them Xindus which must be the name of their home world but I thought that was Xindi Prime. Maybe it’s the plural term but I thought that was just Xindi.
Might be the Latin term for them. Homo Xindus.

 

[Markonian]

We actually got a Xindi reference in this. They call them Xindus which must be the name of their home world but I thought that was Xindi Prime. Maybe it’s the plural term but I thought that was just Xindi.
Might be the Latin term for them. Homo Xindus.

Homo means Human, though? So more like Xindus sapiens?

 

[Christopher]

No, the Xindi homeworld was Xindus: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Xindus

I can find no reference to a Xindi Prime. Maybe you're thinking of the Xindi-Primate species?

 

[Damian]

They call them Xindus which must be the name of their home world but I thought that was Xindi Prime.

Yeah, you know what, I thought it was Xindi Prime for some reason myself. But it's Xindus.

Perhaps we were confusing it with Azati Prime, a Xindi planet.

 

[Christopher]

Or Giedi Prime from Dune?