TOS-R question...

[RAMA]

Some interesting info on HD/35mm film...while 35mm is indeed superior in pixels this will not necessarily always be so, HD is a relatively NEW technology, first being used in 2000 in Japan so we can expect it to improve, but in terms of TV viewing of course, its a huge improvement. The line between the actual quality of the differing pixels in 35mm and HD is already blurring because the "perceived" picture we see is based on lines, not pixels, and audiences and experts alike already can't tell the difference. Add to this, the resolution for HD has now reached 4,250 lines! Well above what we see on or tvs now.

http://filmschoolonline.com/sample_lessons/sample_lesson_HD_vs_35mm.htm

RAMA

 

[GNDN]

Did they redo the Galactic Barrier? Anyone have shots of that?

Yes they did. If you go to Trekcore.com you can see screen shots of "Where No Man Has Gone Before" in both original and TOS-R versions.

I, for one, didn't care for how they redid the galactic barrier and the sequences within it. I think it could be redone, but I wasn't impressed with how they did it. It wasn't just the barrier itself but also how the ship was shown within it.

I don't see how you can seriously say that....it was far more believable and fluid, and I felt several shots of the Enterprise were movie-like.

The first shot of the edge of the galactic disk is worth the price of admission alone by comparison to the old.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd001.jpg

Did they redo the Galactic Barrier? Anyone have shots of that?

Yes they did. If you go to Trekcore.com you can see screen shots of "Where No Man Has Gone Before" in both original and TOS-R versions.

I, for one, didn't care for how they redid the galactic barrier and the sequences within it. I think it could be redone, but I wasn't impressed with how they did it. It wasn't just the barrier itself but also how the ship was shown within it.

I don't see how you can seriously say that....it was far more believable and fluid, and I felt several shots of the Enterprise were movie-like.

The first shot of the edge of the galactic disk is worth the price of admission alone by comparison to the old.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd001.jpg

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/old_ent_intro_shot.jpg

The barrier here...realistic looking..

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

Horrible:

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/old_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

RAMA

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/old_ent_intro_shot.jpg

The barrier here...realistic looking..

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

Horrible:

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/old_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

RAMA

Horrible? Hardly.

He said it because "[he], for one, didn't care for it", what is so hard to accept about that?

There is no "right" answer to any of this, whether going by majority rule, consensus, or your personal opinion.

The first background is very nice, and I generally accept the ship movement, but the first shot after departing the barrier looks like a joke.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd228.jpg

 

[RAMA]

The barrier here...realistic looking..

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

What you mean isn't 'realistic', what you mean is that its more in-line with Modern Trek. The galactic barrier now looks like the badlands.

There are several ways to answer this. Should I bother?? Ok I briefly will..

1. If they were to compare TOS-R to the award winning FX of any modern Trek series it would be quite a compliment, since they were not aiming to make the FX of modern quality...they are stylized.

2. The Badlands effects were great(yes, won an award too)...if we are to say the barrier is some sort of radioactivity barrier that excites and highlights particles in deep space at the galactic edge, then looking like a big amorphous glob with particles definitely looks far more realistic than the band of flat solid looking overexposure of the original effect.

Addendum: The Enterprise model used here was the smaller 3 foot model, why isn't anyone complaining how inaccurate (egads, the nacelles aren't lit!!) it is compared to the series model. The TOS-R corrects this. it genuinely looks like a toy in the original shot of the barrier.

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

No one is denying that by today's standards---and, yes, in some instances even by '60's-'70's standards---the original f/x could leave something to be desired. But the issue debated is whether CBS genuinely made things "better" or just different.

It keeps being argued that the new are better. In strictly technical terms there is little to debate. But in terms of artistry, in terms of whether the new looks appropriate and consistent with the remaining footage, that is still wide open for debate.

One person's art may be another's garbage and vice-versa. The sense that many of the new f/x look a lot like contemporary Trek is a mark against them in my view because there's a very different aesthetic at work.

Truth is this can be bandied back-and-forth and little to no understanding will be reached. I wished to God I could do 3D modeling and cgi animation because then perhaps I could illustrate what I'm trying to describe. As is I feel like I'm just talking into the wind and not getting across what I can clearly see in my mind.

 

[Tallguy]

The barrier here...realistic looking..

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

Horrible:
http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/old_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

RAMA

I HATED HATED HATED the new barrier. HATED it. I mean really really hated it. What was the line from The Making of Star Trek? "This episode caused me to be mean to my wife and children"? The new FX are dark. They're boring. They have no flavor. They have no, well, energy. I don't like the ship, I don't like the movement, I don't like the look of it at all. The original has some flaws (blown matting for one) but it has OOMPH!

Addendum: The Enterprise model used here was the smaller 3 foot model, why isn't anyone complaining how inaccurate (egads, the nacelles aren't lit!!) it is compared to the series model. The TOS-R corrects this. it genuinely looks like a toy in the original shot of the barrier.

Only the exiting the barrier shot used the 3 foot model. Everything else was the 11 footer.

And NO nacelles were lit in this episode. In the original OR remastered.

(I HATED the new barrier. HATED it. BTW.)

I'll argue the merits of almost any Remastered episode but this one. This is where they really (IMHO) dropped the ball. They did do a fairly nice job on the Delta Vega station but you could kind of tell they didn't really think it was necessary either.

If I ever get around to doing "The Tallguy Editions" this will be my first offering.

 

[Warped9]

I HATED HATED HATED the new barrier. HATED it. I mean really really hated it.

I'm not sure I understand. Could you be a little more clear.

Seriously, I also didn't like what they did to the void in "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" The original was psychedelic and surreal. The new one is a wholly different colour and just blech.

And don't get me started on the Tholian webspinners.

 

[Tallguy]

And don't get me started on the Tholian webspinners.

I would not dream of it.

 

[Warped9]

I also really disliked the red impulse engines we saw in some shots. It looked really cartoony and rather fannish.

 

[RAMA]

A comparison of the first and second generation Enterprise:

http://www.retroweb.com/startrek.html

I still think the very first first generation picture is a better image than the one used in Making of Star Trek but the improvement was nice also.

RAMA

 

[Tallguy]

A comparison of the first and second generation Enterprise:

http://www.retroweb.com/startrek.html

I still think the very first first generation picture is a better image than the one used in Making of Star Trek butt he improvement was nice also.

RAMA

Excellent! Thank's very much.

Does anyone know if Remastered aired in the order it was produced? (i.e. If I look up air dates will I get production order as well?) From what I gather it kind of had to be.

 

[Warped9]

Looks like the first version looks a bit grainier or something. The second version looks more cgi.

 

[RAMA]

A comparison of the first and second generation Enterprise:

http://www.retroweb.com/startrek.html

I still think the very first first generation picture is a better image than the one used in Making of Star Trek butt he improvement was nice also.

RAMA

Excellent! Thank's very much.

Does anyone know if Remastered aired in the order it was produced? (i.e. If I look up air dates will I get production order as well?) From what I gather it kind of had to be.

http://trekmovie.com/tos-in-hd/
http://trekmovie.com/tos-in-hd/tos-in-hdhdtv-star-trek-tos-episode-order2/

 

[Forbin]

The barrier here...realistic looking..

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

Realistic. 'Cause you know EXACTLY what a real galactic barrier looks like.

Horrible:

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/old_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/old_ent_intro_shot.jpg

Horrible? HORRIBLE?!!?!?!??!?!
Really? "HORRIBLE!!!!!????"
Your pomposity/credibility ratio has pegged at 100/0 with this one.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'd question the intelligence of anyone who can't enjoy The Original Series without the updated effects.

This kind of thing isn't even a surprise any more.

 

[RAMA]

The barrier here...realistic looking..

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

Horrible:
http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/old_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

RAMA

I HATED HATED HATED the new barrier. HATED it. I mean really really hated it. What was the line from The Making of Star Trek? "This episode caused me to be mean to my wife and children"? The new FX are dark. They're boring. They have no flavor. They have no, well, energy. I don't like the ship, I don't like the movement, I don't like the look of it at all. The original has some flaws (blown matting for one) but it has OOMPH!

Addendum: The Enterprise model used here was the smaller 3 foot model, why isn't anyone complaining how inaccurate (egads, the nacelles aren't lit!!) it is compared to the series model. The TOS-R corrects this. it genuinely looks like a toy in the original shot of the barrier.

Only the exiting the barrier shot used the 3 foot model. Everything else was the 11 footer.

And NO nacelles were lit in this episode. In the original OR remastered.

(I HATED the new barrier. HATED it. BTW.)

I'll argue the merits of almost any Remastered episode but this one. This is where they really (IMHO) dropped the ball. They did do a fairly nice job on the Delta Vega station but you could kind of tell they didn't really think it was necessary either.

If I ever get around to doing "The Tallguy Editions" this will be my first offering.

Exactly!! But if the nacelles weren't lit in a modern Trek, whoa they'd be crucified...but no with TOS they are better. Hilarious!! At least you guys can make me laugh.

Ah well, to each their own I suppose...to me its the new FX in WNMHGB that give it extra life...its interesting you used that word, because that's what I was thinking when looking over the TOS-R Trekmovie pics (and they are not even HD!!!). To the credit of CBS Digital who were making stylistic FX...I actually felt the barrier looked slightly better than the award winning Badlands FX...which are similar.

Now if I had to come up with an episode that disappointed me, it would be Balance of Terror..

 

[RAMA]

The barrier here...realistic looking..

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

Realistic. 'Cause you know EXACTLY what a real galactic barrier looks like.

Horrible:

http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/old_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg

Horrible? HORRIBLE?!!?!?!??!?!
Really? "HORRIBLE!!!!!????"
Your pomposity/credibility ratio has pegged at 100/0 with this one.

I defined it in one of my posts...

RAMA

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

In addition to never making sense, the original galactic barrier was always pretty lame - has anyone ever looked at it and not asked "why don't they just fly over it?"

That, at least, was eliminated by the improved effect.

I haven't seen all of the Remastered episodes, but of those I've seen the only one where I really disliked an artistic decision was the redesign of the Tholian spacecraft in "The Tholian Web." The new design was less striking, less elegant and no more plausible than the original.

 

[BillJ]

In addition to never making sense, the original galactic barrier was always pretty lame - has anyone ever looked at it and not asked "why don't they just fly over it?"

The original effect always had the "why don't they fly over/under it?" question hanging there. But I found the effect with the barrier sandwiched by starless space more ominous than what we were provided with the new effects.

Like a storm on the horizon.

 

[Tallguy]

In addition to never making sense, the original galactic barrier was always pretty lame - has anyone ever looked at it and not asked "why don't they just fly over it?"

That, at least, was eliminated by the improved effect.

How so? The new effect is just as two dimensional as the original.

"Realistic"? Maybe not. But neither were the 2D explosions in Aliens, ST6, and the SEs of Star Wars.

 

[scotpens]

One instance where the digital FX artists got it right, IMO, was the picnic scene in “The Cage”/“The Menagerie.” In the original, the city of Mojave in the distance is obviously a painted backdrop. The remastered version subtly blends the background art with the foreground action without radically altering the overall look of the scene.