TOS Enterprise for Dummies

[Tallguy]

Hi folks. I wasn't sure if this should go in tech or art, but tech seemed less busy.

Reading Shaw's thread on the three footer, I realized that I may have some wrong ideas about where she showed up (if at all). I always thought that the three footer was in The Cage (and therefore was in the "see-through bridge" opening shot reused for the barrier scene in Where No Man Has Gone Before). And then you had the eleven footer with the tall bridge and the aft nacelle vents for the remainder of the shots in Where No Man Has Gone Before. Then they made the modifications to the bridge and the engines on the eleven for the regular series.

I was thinking we could use this thread to collect the Definitive Library of all the Enterprises used in TOS. Unless someone has already done this. I checked the IDIC page and it's not real specific as to the whens wheres and whats. There might be somewhere else that I hadn't thought of or found.

 

[Captain Robert April]

As far as "The Cage" goes, the only shot that had the eleven foot model was that bank-into-the-camera-and-zoom-in-on-the-bridge shot. Everything else was the 3-footer.

 

[David cgc]

I bet everyone was so glad they worked so hard on that model after they found out it was only used for one shot, and every other one was the dinky little study model.

 

[uss_griffin]

Moving to the next pilot...
The 11-footer appears when the ship enters the barrier (reused footage from The Cage with pink effect added). When the ship emerges from the barrier, it's the 3-footer (image reversed -- decals appear backward). All other shots are the 11-footer in its second pilot dress. (These same shots of the 11-footer were then reused frequently throughout the series. (The barrier shots appeared again, too.))

Edit: correction: the reused 11-footer shot from The Cage isn't when the ship entered the barrier but rather as it turned to leave the barrier. When entering the barrier, it's the second pilot dress.

 

[Maurice]

Don't you only see the Enterprise exterior at the start and very end of The Cage?

 

[Captain Robert April]

DS9Sega said:
Don't you only see the Enterprise exterior at the start and very end of The Cage?

This is the eleven footer:

This is the three footer:

Note the difference in the lower contour of the saucer section.

 

[Tallguy]

Thanks for the screens, CA.

Has there ever been a list made of all of the unique shots of the Enterprise in TOS, and what eps they appear in? If not, I'm about to start.

 

[Basill]

Sounds like a worthy pursuit. Wonder how hard that would be, considering how many stock shots the show used? Other than sitting through the entire series and investigating yourself that is. (Oh the torture )

I know the scenes with the Botany Bay in Space Seed were unique, and that especially unique aft shot of the Enterprise firing on Lazarus's ship in The Alternative Factor.

Cool beans

 

[Tallguy]

Well, I'm starting with stills, once I have those cataloged I'll move to movies.

 

[Tallguy]

BTW, are the wooshes in the opening credits the 3 or the 11?

 

[uss_griffin]

^ In WNMHGB (which I watched yesterday) and forward, as the enterprise first approaches, it's clearly the 11-footer (you can spot the tall bridge dome). The fast "wooshes" are probably the same, but they move by so fast, I can't say for sure. I'll pay attention next time to be sure. (I've been watching one episode per day (in no particular order) while I work out in the mornings.) I'll try to remember to comment on any obviously new footage I notice, though I'm not in a position to take notes as I watch.

 

[Captain Robert April]

The "whooshes" were done with the three footer, and is one case where they made the better choice (and is also why the remastered version doesn't have the same oomph; I'll explain).

Remember, the soundstage they used to shoot the ship opticals wasn't particularly spacious, so if they tried to do a high speed flyby with the big eleven foot model, we're not talking a whole lot of run-up room before you go right past the model and smack into the back wall.

Use the three-footer, on the other hand, and you have effectively quadrupled your effective track length, not to mention quadruple your scale speed, so little model flying by the camera looks a lot faster than big model. Same technique is used today, at least by those folks who still use physical models (just take a gander at the various sizes of models they made of the Millenium Falcon).

As to why the remastered version looks a bit stodgier? They're using the same CG model for all the shots, so just putting the model through the same basic camera moves doesn't quite do the job.

And yes, I've tried to make this point to Mike Okuda. Not sure he ever got my point, though.

 

[Tallguy]

That was why I guessed it was the three footer. I just couldn't imagine them getting that far away from the 11 on their stages.

While I agree that the remastered whooshes don't have the same oomph, I won't say it's because of the model. It's because of the camera. As you mentioned, you get a lot more space to run around with the 3. But with a CGI model you have as much space as you want. But freeze frame the credits just as the model starts to pass out of frame. They had that lens cranked all the way out so as the ship goes by she gets really stretchy and streaky. It's almost an impression of a ship rather than a solid image. I think that's what's missing. I also think the sound may be a little off. (Rewatching on Youtube just now, I'd say they got a lot closer than I remembered. I think they may have cut some frames or done some other trickery on the original as well.)

But if they had had four times the space and been able to move the camera four times as fast they could have gotten the same effect with the 11. Heck, by that argument the "real" Enterprise could never look as fast as the three foot model.

 

[Ronald Held]

How should the camera angles change for the CG version?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

The virtual aperature must be much larger... about four times. The depth-of-field should be altered... basically, imagine that you were scaling the camera used on the 11' model up by a factor of four.

Of course, we don't know what lens was used on the camera for that shot, either, soooo...

 

[Tallguy]

Well, it's the difference between this



and this.



The second is more like an eye-ball, or how you would see a 950 ft ship from about 550 feet away. The first is more like how I think they shot the opening credits. (I just guesstimated my lens angle.) It also allows you to stay MUCH closer to the model and still have it look far away. Again, this gives you a lot of "distance" and speed in a probably very cramped stage. The first shot (to scale) is only about 170 feet away.

So with the narrower (eye-ball) lens you don't get the same stretching, or the same RUSH as the object gets closer to the camera (and things get weird looking from a normal eye perspective).

That's MY take on it.

 

[Shaw]

Yes, the swoosh model in the opening credits is the three foot model... that footage was shot for The Cage and was used as book end footage of the Enterprise in the pilot.

So if you count the opening credits (which I usually don't), the three foot model is in every episode.


As for the question of filming miniatures of the Enterprise, I know of only four models that represented the Enterprise on screen in TOS...

• 11 foot model (used for a majority of shots throughout the series),
• 3 foot model (mostly filmed in the two pilots, but remain as stock footage for later episodes),
• 18 inch AMT model (Trouble with Tribbles, based on first generation of AMT kit), and
• 3 inch model (used in Catspaw).

Considering that the AMT kit was shown on screen as both the Enterprise and Constellation, I've been considering acquiring an original (late 1960s) AMT Enterprise model to document it's specifications.

 

[USS Mariner]

Tallguy said:
Well, it's the difference between this



and this.



The second is more like an eye-ball, or how you would see a 950 ft ship from about 550 feet away. The first is more like how I think they shot the opening credits. (I just guesstimated my lens angle.) It also allows you to stay MUCH closer to the model and still have it look far away. Again, this gives you a lot of "distance" and speed in a probably very cramped stage. The first shot (to scale) is only about 170 feet away.

So with the narrower (eye-ball) lens you don't get the same stretching, or the same RUSH as the object gets closer to the camera (and things get weird looking from a normal eye perspective).

That's MY take on it.

Actually, IIRC, they used the three-footer because of the extra track length AND they zoomed in on it as they did the pass.

That's why it looks very unique in those flybys, because they zoomed in on the ship.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Shaw said:
Yes, the swoosh model in the opening credits is the three foot model... that footage was shot for The Cage and was used as book end footage of the Enterprise in the pilot.

So if you count the opening credits (which I usually don't), the three foot model is in every episode.


As for the question of filming miniatures of the Enterprise, I know of only four models that represented the Enterprise on screen in TOS...

• 11 foot model (used for a majority of shots throughout the series),
• 3 foot model (mostly filmed in the two pilots, but remain as stock footage for later episodes),
• 18 inch AMT model (Trouble with Tribbles, based on first generation of AMT kit), and
• 3 inch model (used in Catspaw).

Considering that the AMT kit was shown on screen as both the Enterprise and Constellation, I've been considering acquiring an original (late 1960s) AMT Enterprise model to document it's specifications.

An early 70's version should do the trick (just make sure it's a long box; if you get a short box, it's one of those mid-70's ones from the different moldings). They can be had for fairly cheap.

In the meantime, here's what I've got on the subject:



I'll have to dig up the measurements. Or dig up my pre-Planet Killer Constellation model and do some measurements upon request.