TOS Chronology

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by MAGolding, May 4, 2020.

  1. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In original broadcast order, "Errand of Mercy", broadcast on March 23, 1967, was the 26th episode of TOS.

    The Enterprise reaches their assigned position and Kirk reads the sealed orders.

    They are attacked by a Klingon ship and destroy it.

    While negotiating with the Orangians could be expected to be time consuming, what would be really time consuming would be building a bases on Organia or in the Organian system that keep the Klingons away and prevent them from using the planet and the star system.

    I understand why starfeet Command didn't ignore the Prime Directive and try to establish a base on Organia much earlier. Organia is in the disuputed area and such an attempt could provoke the Klingons to start a war that Starfleet hoped to avoid. And I understand why Starfleet Command didn't order Kirk to destroy all life on Organia and turn its surface into an ocean of red hot magma, making it useless for the Klingons. That would have been evil.

    But I don't understand how Starfleet Command thought that Kirk could possibly have enough time to fortify Organia against the Klingons. As I remember, I started a thread about that.

    Kirk decides to beam down with Spock to Organia to negotiate. Since a Klingon fleet has been detected in "this quadrant" Kirk tells Sulu to retreat if a Klingon fleet is detected and alert the Federation Fleet.

    What does Kirk mean by "emerge"?

    Emerge from warp drive? Emerge from hyperspace? Emerge from a wormhole connecting the Organia system to another star system? Emerge from a cloaking device by turning it off?

    Beaming down, Kirk introduces himself to Ayelborne, chairman of the Council of Elders. Spock wanders off to study the village, and Ayelborne takes Kirk to the council chambers.

    In the next scene the elders seat themselves at a table and Kirk talks to them about the Klingon threat and the Federation's offer of assistance. Spock enters.

    The Klingon fleet arrives and Kirk tells Sulu to retreat.

    Soon after Kirk says:

    Seeming to imply that if they had agreed to Federation protection a few minutes ago the Enterprise could have deployed some sort of instant planetary defense system capable of holding off a Klingon fleet.

    Apparently only minutes have passed since the ending of the last scene. 3.3 stardate units have passed between 3198.4 and 3201.7. Each minute that passed during that interval makes a stardate unit 0.3030 minutes longer; each hour that passes during that interval makes a stardate unit 0.3030 hours longer, each day that passes during that interval makes a stardate unit 0.3030 days longer.

    And I can't help wondering how to make the interval of 3.3 stardates last much longer than the actually time shown onscreen between them during the episode.

    That night Kirk and Spock blow up a Klingon munitions dump.

    Kor captures Kirk & Spock.

    So this is the second day on Organia.

    Kor threatens to have Spock dissected and turn Kirk into a mental vegetable unless Kirk gives him the information Kor wants. Kor sends Kirk to a cell, giving Kirk 12 hours to change his mind and talk.

    Later:

    So it is 5 hours and 17 minutes later. Ayelborne released them from the cell.

    A few minutes later, Kor broadcasts a message that 200 Organian hostages have been killed, and 200 more will be killed every two hours until the saboteurs are handed over to the Klingons. Kirk & Spock decide to try to stop Kor within the next two hours before any more hostages are killed.

    After Kirk & Spock leave the council chamber:

    So apparently nightfall and darkness are less than 2 hours away.

    Kor sends Klingons to round up another bunch of hostages. Kirk and Spock enter Kor's office.

    A minute or so later, the Organians stop the fighting on Organia and on the two fleets, and all throughout Federation and Klingon space.

    Apparently the Organians have not been organic beings for a very long time:

    Kirk's words that it is unsettling to discover that we're not the most powerful beings in the universe may indicate that "Errand of Mercy" is in an alternate universe where "The Corbomite Maneuver", "Charlie X", "The Squire of Gothos", and "Arena" did not happen.
     
  2. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In original broadcast order "The Alternative factor", broadcast on March 30, 1967, is the 27th episode of TOS.

    The Enterprise is orbiting a planet.

    Later, when they beam down to the planet, many bushes are seen. Have all the bushes died recently along with all of the bacteria that might have decomposed them? And how does Spock explain an atmosphere rich in oxygen without photosynthesis? Once again characters talk like plants are not lifeforms. Possibly in the future many people will restrict life forms to animals that have some sort of awareness and will.

    The ship is struck by a strange and massive effect. The special effects for this include an image of the Trifed Nebula, which is about 4,000 light years from Earth, a possible clue to the location of the planet. A humanoid life form has appeared on the planet below. Kirk and Spock beam down with security guards.

    Back on the bridge:

    Barstow says the effect occurred in every quadrant of the galaxy and far beyond.

    This suggests that the 'galaxy" that Barstow spoke of was not the entire Milky Way galaxy but a much smaller region of it. In the era of TOS English may have words for sections or regions of a galaxy that don't exist in 20th century English and so are mistranslated into it as "galaxy"

    Barstow said he was evacuating all Starfeet personnel within 100 parsecs, or 326.156 light years. A sphere of space 200 parsecs or 652.312 light years in diameter is vast, but tiny compared to the Milky Way galaxy.

    Barstow mentioned timewarp distortions. Were those timewarp distortions which appear out of nowhere, or where they distortions in the artificial timewarps created by advanced societies? The Federation may have the ability to create timewarps, since "The Menagerie Part 1" mentioned breaking "the time barrier" and "time warp factor seven".

    Kirk sends Spock to Lazarus's ship and talks to Lazarus.

    And of course the audience of this confusing episode can't know how much, if any, of that story is correct. Kirk beams down with Lazarus. There is a scene of the Trifed Nebula again, and two Lazaruses fight in a space time corridor, which happens every time the Trifed Nebula effect is seen..

    There were 0.7 stardate units between 3087.6 and 3088.3. The conversation with Barstow was an hour after the first effect, so there should be at least 1.4 hours in a stardate unit.

    Mccoy says he treated a wound on Lazarus's forehead and it later disappeared (indicating thee was a switch).

    In a rec room Lazarus overhears Lt. Masters talking about the dilithium cyrsals:

    in a corridor, Lazarus sways as the Trifid Nebula is seen again, and when it stops he has a bandage on his forehead again.

    Kirk is called to the bridge and takes Lazarus with him. Spock shows him a sort of rip in the universe which the dilithium crystals detected.

    This Lazarus leaves, and has another seizure and Trifed Nebula image. When things clear he is missing the head bandage.

    In Engineering Lazarus overpowers an assistant and then Lt. Masters.

    3088.7 is 0.4 stardate units after 3088.3 Sicnce at least 1 hour elapses in that period, there must be at least 2.5 hours in a stardate unit in "The Alternative Factor".

    Down on the planet again Lazarus has another "nebula moment". Later he warns Kirk of a falling rock and falls himself.

    In sickbay, Kirk accuses this Lazarus of lying:

    And the audience can't tall if Lazarus did chase his enemy through time to the distant future, when his world was dead. If that dead planet once had a civilization, one Lazarus might have actually destroyed it and all life on the planet. Or course a civilized planet could have become naturally dead and uninhabitable with time. As far as Iknow, star systems with habitable planets could have formed and intelligent life could have flourished on those planets, which could later hve naturally become unable to support life, many millions, long enough ago that life on those planets could have been extinct for millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions, or even billions of years by now.

    Alone, Lazarus has one of his seizures and "nebula moments". Kirk and Spock decide that their is a whole between universes and there are two different Lazaruses.

    Of course it takes a lot more than one particle of antimatter and one particle of matter meeting to destroy two parallel universe. Relatives of mine have had PET scans which involve particles and anti particles annihilating each other. And of course people are not particles but collections of gazillions of particles.

    Therefore I guess Spock isn't talking about the relatively normal antimatter in the rest of TOS more or less as known to science, but some as yet undiscovered form of matter that is really strange and really "anti" to normal matter, much more so than what we call antimatter. The name of that matter must have been translated to antimatter in 20th century English by mistake.

    Lazarus starts a fire that fills the dilithium section with smoke. Masters and an engineer evacuate the area, and Lazarus steals dilithium crystals. Lazarus knocks out the transporter technician and beams down to the planet. Kirk orders Spock to bring security and beams down.

    On the planet, Kirk accidentialyl sends himself to the magnetic corridor and then to the antimatter universe, where he finds another Lazarus and another little spaceship..

    Kirk returns through the magnetic corridor and pushes the Lazarus in his universe through into the magnetic corridor.

    They fire the ship's phasers to destroy the spaceship onthe planet below and thus the other one, and trap the two Lazaruses in the magnetic corridor for all eternity.

    So if there were two mirror civilizations on the alternate universe versions of the planet, was one or both of them destroyed, or was that just a wild claim by the insane Lazarus?

    They got two of the missing dilithium crystals back, but apparently lost the other two in an alternate universe. How well can the Enterprise function without them?

    I quote from my post number 1 at the thread https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/a-mirror-universe-theory.304200/:

     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  3. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Although I prefer episodic television of the sixties and seventies to the serial based shows we watch today I do agree that you have to suspend disbelief with comments made by Kirk in Errand of Mercy about not being the most powerful beings in the universe! But then again maybe the channel you are watching the episode on didn't show Charlie X, Arena, Squire of Gothos or The Corbomite Maneuver!!! :crazy:
    JB
     
  4. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In original broadcast order "The City on the Edge of Forever", broadcast on April 6,1967, is the 28th episode of TOS.

    The Enterprise has trouble avoiding time ripples around a planet. Sulu is inured, and McCoy is called to the bridge.

    McCoy revives Sulu with an injection of cordrazine, but the next time ripple causes McCoy to inject himself with all the remaining cordrazine in the hypo.

    Driven into temporary insanity, McCoy flees from the Bridge.

    McCoy beams himself down to the center of the time disturbance. A landing party follows to search for him.

    How could they have detected the time ways only millions of miles away if they have been following the strange instrument readings for a week?


    If the Guardian has been waiting since before Earth's Sun burned hot in space it would be over 4,600,000,000 years old, and a city "only" 1,000,000 years old would be very young compared to it.

    If the Guardian meant that nobody had asked a question near it in over 4,600,000,000 years, the people who lived in that city 1,000,000 years ago must not have been the type to ask questions. But maybe the Guardian didn't mean that Kirk was the first person to ask a question in all that time, but that it had been waiting for questions,and sometimes getting them, for that time. .

    The Guardian shows images of Earth's past history.

    They can no longer contact the Enterprise.

    Kirk and Spock leap through the guardian.

    After stealing clothing and fleeing from police, Kirk and Spock hide in a basement.

    They are found by Sister Edith Keeler who runs the 21st Street Mission and offers them jobs:

    After eating, they here Edith's speech at the mission. Edith talks to Kirk, telling him of a vacent room for rent at her place $ 2.00 per week,and a monthly calendar is seen in the background that looks rather clear in the remastered version. There is a thread on this site where I discuss what month of what year it could have been.

    Memory Alpha says:

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_City_on_the_Edge_of_Forever_(episode)

    Why do they think that a month with only thirty days can be May in 1930 or n any other year. May is one of the rest that thave 31 days. Only April, June, September, and November have only 30 days.

    Later, Kirk enters their room, when Spock has started constructing a computer.

    So it is at least two day after the first day they worked for Edith. So Kirk spent $ 8.10 on electronics and $ 0.90 on food.

    Were they able speed it up, or did it take three weeks to be able to scan the recorded history. Possibly when Spock borrows the fine clockmaking tools he is able to speed things up a bit.

    One night, as Kirk and Edith are walking:

    A view of the Brooklyn Bridge at night is seen, but no stars are seen. Can you actually see constellations in a New York City night, and if so, what time of year is Orion's belt visible?

    The song "Goodnight Sweetheart" is played as Kirk walks with Edith. in our timeline it was was released in 1931, the year after Kirk and Edith allegedly walked.

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Goodnight_Sweetheart

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_City_on_the_Edge_of_Forever_(episode)

    Spock finds a newspaper report saying that social worker Edith Keeler of the 21st Street Mission was killed in auto accident. Kirk enters.

    That night, or another one, McCoy appears out of nowhere and meets "Rodent" a bum from the 21st Street Mission.

    The cordrazine frenzied McCoy freaks out "Rodent":

    So McCoy was also able to see and recognize constellations in a New York City night in the 1930s. Would light pollution have drowned out the stars?

    Note that two people die in this story, Edith and "Rodent" Note that there are four possible combinations of their death or survival. There is a classic article by Jeff Mason from Trek magazine and the Best of Trek books, that claims that of those four outcomes, only one leads to Star Trek actually happening in its alternate universe, and only one leads to the television series Star Trek being produced in the alternate universe in which we live.

    Kirk and Spock talk in their room:

    This indicates their next view of the r historical records should be at least 48 hours in the future.

    In daytime, an unknown period of time after McCoy appeared and an unknown period of time after Kirk and Spock talk, McCoy Enters the 21st street Mission.

    Kirk and Spock talk in their room. Spock has his mnemonic memory circuits working again. Is this at least 48 hours after the previous talk, or has Spock managed to speed things up?

    And the thought has occurred to me that Star Trek may be in an alternate universe in which the A4 rocket was not named the V2. Maybe it was never used as a Vengeance Weapon, or maybe it was known as the V1 instead of the cruise missile that was called the V1 in our history. Either would leave the designation of V2 available for a hypothetical more advanced German missile.

    The rocket design that was given the designation V2 in our alternate universe had a rather small warhead which weighed about one tone. Early fission bombs in the 1940s and well into the 1950s were too big for the warhead of the V2 and weighed several tons. A V2 couldn't carry one.

    Furthermore, the range of the V2 rocket was only 200 miles.

    So my theory is that aliens from other space and/or time travelers from the future convinced the Nazi leaders that they needed the equivalent of ICBMS with nuclear warheads and maybe provided technical information. to help the Nazis develop atomic bombs faster, and smaller and lighter bombs, while building larger and more powerful rockets, thus building atomic bombs that could be delivered by their intercontinental rockets.

    That would be quite different from the Nazi atomic bomb and rocket projects in our history. Anyway, in the alternate history of Star Trek the USA got involved in the war and managed to defeat Nazi Germany, while in the alternate history where Edit Keeler lived she managed to delay US entry into the war and the Nazis won.

    Earlier Spock supposedly saw Edith's obituary dated 1930. Would the complete date be on the page. How could Spock not have read the full date of her death?

    So Edith Keeler, and the newspaper report of her death, both say the year is 1930, according to the year count then in use.

    When Spock scolds Kirk for saving Edith when she stumbles on the stairs:

    And again I ask how Spock read the year from her obituary and not the exact date.

    McCoy has recovered and is talking to Edith:

    And later:

    So Edith expects people to know what a Clark Gable movie is, in the year 1930 of her calendar. We can call the "calendar used in her era in "the City on the Edge of Forever" the CF calendar.

    Here is a link to a list of Clark Gable's movie credits:

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000022/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

    Clark Gable became a star in 1931.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Gable#1930-1935:_Early_success

    There is the same situation with the song "Goodnight Sweetheart" being played in 1930 CF even though it wasn't published until AD 1931 in our alternate universe.

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Goodnight_Sweetheart

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_City_on_the_Edge_of_Forever_(episode)

    Therefore Star Trek must be in an alternate universe where either:

    1) Clark Gable was already a movie star in AD 1930, and "Goodnight Sweetheart" was already published in AD 1930.

    or:

    2) A different calendar or at least year count is used in the early 20th century, where the year 1930 CF is the same as the year AD 1931 or later. That would make the year 1936 CF the same as the year AD 1937 or later.

    In my post number 77 on page 4 of this thread I point out a similar situation with the Folsom Point in "The Galileo 7", discovered in AD 1926 in our history but in 1925 in the calendar used in "The Galileo 7".

    I wonder if the Guardian of Forever was always telling the truth, or if it lied to manipulate Kirk and Spock to do its bidding.

    Maybe it cut off communications with the Enterprise when McCoy went though the Guardian, convincing Kirk and Spock that McCoy had changed history and erased everything they knew.

    Then, when Kirk and Spock leaped through the Guardian, the Guardian sent them to some alternate universe where Edith Keeler and "Rodent" would have lived longer, and McCoy, Kirk and Spock caused the deaths of Edith and "Rodent", which may have been the goal of The Guardian

    Perhaps The Guardian of Time wants to make more and more alternate universe have a history similar to that in the alternate universe of Star Trek, or maybe it has some other "timey-wimy" reason.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  5. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    Yes, Orion's Belt is visible in New York City, even today unless it is behind a building. According to NASA (.org) Alnitak, the star at the left side of Orion's belt, is 817 light years away. It seems that most of the stars in Orion's Belt are visited by Starfleet in TOS's era.
     
  6. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm fully on board with a more manipulative GoF.
    In both its appearances the actions of the GoF seemed focused on preserving a predestination paradox and wasn't against using some misdirection to achieve its goals!
     
  7. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    kirk said nothing about starfleet building a base on organia or in it's system. kirk intent seem to be to organize the organians to resist the klingons themselves.
     
  8. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    n original broadcast order, "Operation - Annihilate!" broadcast on April 13, was the 29th episode of TOS.

    The episode opens at the is in the Deneva system, approaching the colony planet Deneva.

    Kirk tells Uhura to try a private subspace channel.

    Theta Cygni is a real star, about 60 light years from Earth, with equatorial coordinates right ascension 19 hours 36 minutes, declination plus 50 degrees minutes. If any of the other stars could be identified, a line connecting all of them could be drawn.

    A Denevan flies his spaceship into the Denevan sun and claims to be free before his ship vaporizes. MCoy asks:

    So Deneva was colonized over a century ago.

    I wonder if Deneva was named after Deneb. If Deneb was a multiple star, the brightest star would be Deneb A , and the next Deneb B, and so on, though Deneb is apparently a single star. Deneva always sounds little like Deneb A to me.

    Mention of "the asteroid belt" makes it seem like somebody though Deneva is supposed to be in our solar system, thoughit certainly isn't. So the asteroid belt mentioned could be in the Deneva solar system or in another nearby one.

    "No Federation contacts for over a year" makes me wonder whether Deneva is part of the United Federation of Planets, is independent, or part of another interstellar government.

    They make brief contact with a Denevan woman.

    as they prepare to beam down to the capital city of Deneva:

    They find Sam Kirk dead, Aurelan hysterical, and Peter Kirk unconscious. Kirk beams back up with McCoy, Aurelan, and Peter.

    Back on the planet, they find some of the creatures, and Spock is infected.

    Later, on the bridge, McCoy shows Kirk two specimens in a jar:

    Spock wakes up and goes to the bridge, trying to control the ship.

    Is the creature inside trying to land the Enterprise on the surface, or is Spock trying to crash it into the capital city and kill a lot of ciitizens and creatures?

    Later, in sickbay, Spock is more in control of himself:

    Possibly the Enterprise would be better than all the ships the creatures are forcing the colonists to make.



    Spock persuades the Captain to beam him down to get a live creature. Spock captures one of the creatures.

    In the lab:

    So if the creatures come from another galaxy, their path might lead from the "upper" or "lower" edge or surface to the galactic disc to Theta Cygni.

    Later:

    But in "What Are Little Girls Made of?" Sam Kirk had three sons months or years earlier. Were the the other two found dead off screen, or was McCoy just assuming their weren't any other kids in the family? Are "Operation-Annihilate!" and "What Are Little Girls Made of?" in alternate universes where Sam Kirk had different numbers of children, or were the other two boys somewhere else on Deneva or another planet. during this episode?

    Aurelan was portrayed by Joan Swift, who was born 11 May 1933 and was 33 years and 9 months old in February, 1967 when her scenes were filmed. Craig Hundley/Huxley as Peter Kirk was born 22 November 1954, and was 12 years and less than three months old when his scenes were filmed. If peter had brothers, they would probably be younger instead of older.

    Killing 5 to save 10 seems a lot better to one of the 10 than to one of the 5.

    If McCoy disapproves of it so much, why doesn't he oppose killing the creatures? Why doesn't he suggest that Spock mind meld with the specimen and negotiate a peace treaty with it? Maybe they could provide robots for the creatures to control in return for the creatures freeing the colonists?

    maybe the creatures would give up using organic host bodies and prefer to control robots, but could be persuaded to do favors for the Federation by taking over the Romulans and the Klingons.

    And since it is uncertain whether there are thousands, or millions of the creatures, or only one creature with many bodies, we can't know whether the creatures are more like the five or the ten in McCoy's analogy.

    Well, maybe "Operation-Annihilate!" is in an alternate universe to episodes like "Dagger of the Mind", "a Taste of Armageddon", and "The Devil in the Dark" where Spock used his telepathic powers.

    Later, in Kirk's quarters, they go over it again, and Kirk has his inspiration:

    They test light on the captured specimen.

    They kill the creature, Then they test it on Spock, kill the creature, and Spock is blinded.

    Seventy two miles high doesn't seem high enough for permanent orbit.

    The mean or average radius of the Earth is 6,371.0088 kilometers or 3,958.7613 miles. Adding 72 miles to that we get a radius of about 4,031 miles. A sphere with that radius would have a surface area of about 2.048 times 10 to the eight power square miles. or 204,000,000 square miles . With 210 satellites, that would give an area of 971,428.5714 square miles of that sphere for each satellite. The square root of that is 985.6 miles. So the satellites would have to be equally spaced at intervals of about a thousand miles to cover all of Deneva.

    Of course Deneva could be significantly larger or smaller than Earth.

    In 1913 it was discovered that the Earth has an atmospheric layer which adsorbs a lot of ultra violent ultraviolet radiation from the sun. The highest intensity ultraviolet rays are adsorbed by nitrogen in the atmosphere. The types of ultraviolet which can penetrate nitrogen gas are UV-A, UV-B, and A UV-C. Most UV-A reaches the surface of Earth, but only a little UV-B, and none of the deadliest UV-C gets through the Ozone layer. At some wavelengths of UV-B there are hundreds of millions of times as many rays from the Sun at the top of the atmosphere than reach the ground.

    At 72 miles above Deneva, the "ultraviolet satellites" are above the height of the ozone layer on Earth. So the "ultraviolet satellites" should produce light in the UV-A spectrum so that most of it will reach the surface of Deneva..

    The ultraviolet and possibly visible light destroys the creatures, freeing the Denevans.

    I wonder how the Denevan who flew his ship into the sun killed the creature.light wouldn't b penetrate the hull of his h ship, and the windows might not be transparent to ultraviolet light.

    Apparently enough of the visible light and ultraviolet light is reflected from various surfaces to reach the creatures hiding the shadows and kill them. And the creatures that were outside during the dark night would be overwhelmed by the sudden burst of bright light.

    But what about the creatures hiding inside.the bodies of humans? Wouldn't they be shielded from the light by the flesh of the humans they inhabit? When I ride in a car and can turn by fact woard the sun and close by eyes, an d I see red light through my eyelids, and when the car passes int shad I see blue instead of read. So if the creatures have tendrils in the upper layers of human skin those tendrils will be burned by light penetrating it.

    On may 1, I found that the flashlight of my phone is bright enough to light up my finger when it is over the light. My finger glows red. Thus some light can penetrate about half an inch or 1.5 centimeters of flesh. 21st century humans usually have bare heads and hands when outdoors, though I tend to cover up more than most, and TOS era people don't usually wear hats and gloves outdoors.

    So humans controlled by the creatures, working outdoors in space ship yards at night when the creatures don't expect any light, would suddenly have their hands and heads flooded with light, killing the tendrils in their heads and hands, which might set off a cascading systems failure leading to death for the rest of the creature. killing the rest of each creature. If most of the creatures on the planet were inside humans working outside at night, most of them might died, and thus the rest of the creatures might die off since they were part of a super creature that might not survive having the majority of its cells die.

    Possibly the creatures were biological weapons designed to be seeded on a planet, drive the inhabitants to insanity and death, and then be killed off by ultraviolet satellites so the planet could be colonized. And possibly some of the creatures got loose and have been infecting planets every since. Note that the times between planetary infections seem to vary widely. After all the natives of a planet died in madness, a few of the creatures may survive infecting wildlife and eventually infect space travelers who visit the planet. And possibly the creatures were programmed to die when they sensed that their hosts were seeing bright light, explaining how the Denevan pilot was freed from his creature inside the protective hull of his spaceship.

    It is uncertain that all of the creatures are dead. Possibly a few creatures survived, infected various Denevan animals, and multiplied enough to form a new super creature, waiting to infect and control another human. So Deneva, along with Ingraham B, Theta Cygni XII, Lavinius V, and Beta Portolan, needs to be watched closely.

    A scene with Peter Kirk was filmed but not used in the episode. Peter decided not to return to Earth to live with his grandmother but stay on Deneva and live with his father's partner and his wife. Since that scene was not in the aired episode it is possible that Peter went back to Earth.

    in the ending that was filmed, Spock and McCoy come to the bridge.

    :

    I wonder whether the Vulcan sun is 40 Eridani A, 40 Eridani B, or 40 Eridani C.

    The 2.6 stardate units between stardates 3287.2. and 3289.8 could happen within a single day, thus making less than 9.2 hours per stardate unit, or opossibly take more time than that. The really long periods of the episode might be the skipped over parts, building the 210 satellites and helping Deneva recover, especially treating the million colonists for excessive ultraviolet exposure,and there are no stardates given after them.
     
  9. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    The younger two sons probably died of Rigelian fever a couple of years ago. Very sad. :wah:
     
  10. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Your whole speculation about how the light rays may have actually been able to kill the creatures is great, but this final chapter is just cherry on the cake! Fantastic :techman:
     
  11. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In original broadcast order "Amok Time", broadast on September 15, 1967, is the 30th episode of TOS, and the first in the second season.

    Eventually the 4th season of Star Trek: Enterprise described Vulcan as being 16 light years frm earth in one episode and over 16 light years from Earth in another, thus putting the star of Vulcan among the few stars that are between 16.0 and 17.0 light years form Earth. This list has 12 star systems, some with two or three stars, within that distance range.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_star_systems_within_16–20_light-years

    As the episode opens, McCoy tells Kirk that Spock has been acting strange lately:

    Nurse Chapel takes a tray of Plomeek soup to Spock's Room.

    Spock throws the bowl of soup out the door. At the door, Spock asks Kirk:

    So there are two possibilities. One is that the ship would divert from its straight course to its destinatino, turn to go to Vulcan, and from Vulcan take a new course to the destination planet, and that the total length of the journey with the diversion to Vulcan would be only 2.8 light days. longer.

    So you would draw a straight line from where the Enterprise is at the moment to the destination.star system. Then draw a dot showing the position of Vulcan's star system a littel to the side of that line. Draw a line from Vulcan to the straight line to the destination, a line from Vulcan that hits the other line at a right angle. Now draw a line from the position of the Enterprise to Vulcan, and another line from Vulcan to the destination star. So now their are two right angled triangles. And if we knew the length of some of the sides we might be able to calculate how far Vulcan is from the original line to the destination star.

    Or maybe Spock meant that the Vulcan system was 1.4 light days from a point on the straight course to the destination star. In that case the Enterprise could turn at a right angle, travel 1.4 light days to Vulcan, leave Spock there., reverse course, travel 1.4 light days back to the point where it turned, and then turn back onto the course to the destination star having traveled a total of 2.8 light days farther than the straight line course..

    Sin our part of the galaxy a typical distance between a star and its closest neighbor star is usually about 5 light years, and thus about 1,826.25 light days. Thus a diversion of 2.8 light days is about one in 652.2, or about 0.0015, of the average distance between a star and its closest neighbor. So the place where the was coming from, the destination star, and Vulcan, would seem to be lined up almost perfectly which would be highly unusual.

    In Spock's quarters Spock repeats his request for leave on Vulcan.

    "All the years" that Kirk knew Spock are probably at least. 2.0 years. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of whether Kirk and Spock knew each other before Kirk became commander of the Enterprise, except that Gary Mitchell served with Spock for years before "Where No Man Has Gone Before", and that Spock served with Captain Pike for eleven years, and Kirk mentioned meeting Pike once, perhaps the only time Kirk met Pike.

    The destination planet is Altair VI. If Vulcan can be proven to be a planet in a specific star system, A line from Altair to Vulcan's star system extended into space should give some indication of where the was coming from on the voyage to Altair. Altair is one of the 12 star systems that are between 16.0 and 17.0 light years from Earth, so that leaves only 11 possibilities for the star system of Vulcan. Of course nobody would know the distance from Earth to Vulcan back in 1967.

    They get a message from Starfleet Sector Nine:

    According to the official warp factor scale, warp factor four, which they were on before, is 64 times the speed of light and warp factor 6 is 216 times the sped of light. 7 days have been subtracted from the they have to reach Altair VI. At warp factor 4, they could have traveled an additional 448 light days, or 1.22 light years. Every day that they travel at warp factor 6 instead of warp factor 4 they will gain 152 light days over the distance they would have made at warp 4. So in 2.94 more days at warp 6, they should make up for the last seven days at warp 4.

    10 days at warp 4 equals 640 light days, and 3 days at warp 6 equals 648 light days. 11 days at warp 4 equals 704 light days and 4 days at warp 6 equals 864 light days. So when Starfleet called the inauguration should have now been only 3 days away. So when Starfleet called the total distance they would have to travel in direct line to Altair would appear to be about 640 to 648 light days, or about 1.75 to 1.77 light years.

    So they were headed for Vulcan when they had to turn straight for Altair when less than two light years from Altair, and the total added length that the diversion to Vulcan would add only 2.8 light days to the journey. This implies that Vulcan should be very close to Altair. And there seem to be only 11 star systems the correct distance from Earth that could be Vulcan.

    Of course if the speed of warp factors is much greater than the official TOS warp scale, Vulcan could be farther away from Altair. Since Altair and Vulcan are both between 16.0 and 17.0 light years from Earth, the maximum possible distance between Altair and Vulcan would be 32.0 to 34.0 light years. And that should set a maximum possible speed for warp 6, as well as narrowing down the candidates for Vulcan..

    Later Kirk learns that Spock has ordered the Enterprise to Vulcan at maximum warp. Kirk orders Spock to sickbay, and McCoy examines him.

    After examining Spock, McCoy tells Kirk:.

    If they are 3 day's from Altair, going from Altair to Vulcan would take 6 days, so Spock would still be alive. But who knows how many hours or days the Enterprise was supposed to stay for the ceremonies. Kirk talks to Spock about Vulcan mating, and calls Admiral Komack.

    .

    Does Sulu mean that they have already passed Vulcan and it is now behind them as they head for Altair, or am I reading too much into "back to Vulcan"?

    So if they were going to travel 3 days at warp 6 and thus 640 to 648 light days, and a diversion to Vulcan would add a day or less, at warp 6 they would travel less than 864 light days in 4 days, increasing speed to warp 7 would enable them to travel 1,372 light days in 4 days, and increasing speed to warp 8 would enable them to travel 2,048 light days in 4 days. So if the official TOS speed scale is correct they would be less than 5.6 light years from Altair via Vulcan at a that moment.

    Since diverting to Vulcan would originally have added only 2.8 light days to the voyage, the fact that it would now add at least hundreds of light days to the voyage suggest that they had passed the shortest possible route to Vulcan and were getting farther and farther from Vulcan, so they would have to backtrack to get to Vulcan, return over the distance they backtracked, and then continue to Altair.

    I wonder if any of the times Kirk says Spock saved his life were in previous episodes.

    Kirk tells Chekov to:

    Nurse Chapel hears and goes to tell Spock:

    "Just a few days" should be more than 1.0 days, and possibly more than 2.0 days. but if Vulcan was already behind them it would have to be less than half a day behind them if the diversion would be less than one day. Perhaps the two days or more to get to Vulcan would take them one day closer to Altair, so they would be only one day later than scheduled. And that might require a much bigger course correction than if they had changed course to Vulcan when much farther from Vulcan and Altair.

    When they arrive at Vulcan, Spock invites Kirk and McCoy to the ceremony. They beam down the ceremonial location:

    On Earth, being able to trace your family history, and family property ownership, back more than 2,000 years is a rare distinction, if any family at all can truthfully claim it. Of course in the era of TOS the oldest lineages now on Earth will be a few centuries older. And of course a Vulcan family should have a lot fewer generations in 2,000 years than a human one.

    Of course, nobody knows whether McCoy speculation is correct.

    T'Pau says:
    I wonder how far back in time the "beginning'' that T'Pau mentions was.

    After McCoy declares Kirk dead:

    So their mission was to go to Altair, and Kirk disobeyed orders by going to Vulcan and delaying reaching Altair. And Spock cares so little about their mission that he intends to go to the nearest starbase instead of Altair VI, further delaying their arrival. What would be wrong with proceeding to Altair VI and quietly surrendering to the highest ranking Starfleet officer there?

    And in the end:

    I also discuss the voyage in "Amok Time" in the thread "The Voyage in Amok Time". https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-voyage-in-amok-time.304698/

    Since there is only one stardate in "Amok Time", there is no way to tell the length of a stardate unit in the epeisode.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  12. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Stardates in TOS Season One

    I quote from my post number one on page one of this thread:

    5) Stardates. No assumptions are made about stardates. If episodes happen in stardate order, it is possible that there is a fixed relationship between the passage of stardates and time on planets, so that there could be X stardates in one Earth year, for example. But if episodes happen in production order or airdate order stardates would increase and decrease over time, and thus calculating the relationship between stardates and planetary time would be much more complex.

    [Added May 4, 2020. I note that it is possible that stardates go from 0000.0 to 9999.9 and then turn back to 0000.0. It is also possible that in TOS stardates have more digits than are ever actually mentioned on screen. So that stardate 429999.9 would be followed by stardate 430000.0 and the stardates would go up to stardate 439999.9 and then to 440000.0,and so on. But only the last four digits before the decimal point and the ones after the decimal point would be mentioned. Thus it might not always be true that an episode with a higher stardate is after an episode with a lower stardate.]

    So what would a first time viewer deduce about stardates in the first season of TOS if they paid close attention to them?

    If they assumed that episodes happened in broadcast order they would have to deduce that stardates usually increased during episodes and between in episodes but sometimes decreased between episodes.

    If they assumed that episodes happened in stardate order then they could believe that stardates always increased and never decreased.

    What is the length of a stardate unit in shipboard hours and days - which might be the same length as Earth hours and days - according to TOS season one episodes?, Is that length the same in all episodes, or do some episodes have inconsistent stardate lengths? If different episodes have different stardate lengths, then it is possible that how fast a stardate unit increase over time varies with time, and stardates might sometimes decrease over time.

    Or maybe Starfleet uses different stardate systems which have a different length of stardate units. So Starfleet Command might often order starships to switch from using stardate system one to using system two, and later order ships to use system three, and later still order them to go back to using system two, and so on.

    Or if most Star Trek TOS episodes happen in alternate universes of their own, some might happen in alternate universes where Starflelet uses stardate system one, others in alternate universes where Starfleet uses stardate system two, and so on.

    In post number nine on page on page one I found little evidence of started unit length in "The Man Trap".

    "Added June 11, 2020. Since Kirk told Crater they would be back "tomorrow" to finished the examinations, and then later beamed down to ask crater questions, there was obvious less than 48 hours between those two beam downs.

    Some time after stardate 1513.1, Kirk said they would be back "tomorrow" Then came stardate 1513.4, and after that Kirk decided to beam down and question Crater ahead of the scheduled visit. After that visit Kirk made a log on stardate 1513.8. So there are less than 48 hours in the up to 0.7 stardate units between Stardates 1513.1 and 1513.8. Thus there are fewer than 68.6 hours in a stardate unit."

    I suppose that "fewer than 68.6 hours in a stardate unit " should be consistent with every other episode.

    Post number ten, discussing "Charlie X" has only this to say:

    "As far as I can tell the episode could take a day or a week. The interval between the three stardates given, 1533.6, 1533.7, and 1535.8, or 2.2 stardate units, could be less than one Earth day, thus making fewer than 10 or 11 hours per stardate unit, but the time elapsed is not certain."

    In the next episode by broadcast order "Where No Man Has Gone Before", what an attentive viewer learned about the stardate system would depend on how well he could read the dates seen in the files of Gary Mitchell and Elizabeth Dehner, and on the tombstone of Kirk, and whether they thought those dates were years or stardate.

    In my post number 23 on page 2, I discuss the stardates in W"here No Man Has Gone Before",

    In it I deduce there are probably at least 2 hours in the 0.2 stardate units between stardates 1313.1, and 1313.3. making at least 10 hours per stardate unit.

    I also deduce that there are probably fewer than 12 hours in the 0.5 stardate units between 1313.3 and 1313.8, and thus fewer than 24 hours per stardate unit.

    "So a stardate unit should be about 10 to 24 hours long according to the evidence of "Where No Man Has Gone Before"."

    "If a stardate unit should be about 10 to 24 hours long, there should be about 365.25 to 876.6 stardate units in a year."

    I discuss whether the birth dates of Mitchell and Dehner were given in years or in stardates and the implications and also discuss whether the numbers on the tombstone of Kirk were years or stardate or a combination.

    I deduce that if stardates rise from 0000 to 9999 and then start over at 0000 again in a series of cycles, or if stardates have at least five digits before the decimal point but only the last four digits before the decimal point in TOS (just as only the last few digits of Julian Day numbers are sometimes used) the birth dates of Mitchell, Dehner, and Kirk can be plausible numbers of years in the past if there are 10 to 24 hours in a stardate unit.

    However the voyage to Delta Vega takes fewer than 0.2 stardate units from 1312.9 to 1313.1. And the distances to Delta Vega is described as "a few light days".

    "Presumably Delta Vega was more than one light day and less than seven light days which would be a light week. A light day is the distance traveled by light in one day. It is 1/365.25 of a light year and is 24 light hours, or 1,440 light minutes, or 86,400 light seconds."

    "So Delta Vega should have been 1 to 7 light days, or 24 to 168 light hours, or 1,440 to 10,080 light minutes, away."

    "If there are 10 to 24 hours in a stardate unit., 0.2 stardate units would be 2 to 4.8 hours. If the Enterprise was traveling slower than light at impulse power when traveling to Delta Vega, the farthest it could travel would be 2 to 4.8 light hours, which would be 0.0119 to 0.2 of the stated distance to Delta Vega."

    So that seems to indicate that 0.2 of a stardate unit should be at least 1 to 7 days, and thus a stardate unit should be at least 5 to 35 days long.

    But possibly the Enterprise, despite its much reduced speed, was travelling faster than light to Delta Vega. If there are 2 to 4.8 hours in 0.2 stardate units, travelling 24 to 168 light hours in that time would require a speed of 5 to 84 times the speed of light.

    Kirk's log after hitting the barrier says:

    Assuming that days means at least one day and less than a week, and that years means at least one year and less than a decade, the ratio between normal speeds and the speeds after the damage to the main engines should be 365.25 to 3652.5 days divided by 1 to 7 days, or about 52.17 to 3652.5. If the speed after the damage was still faster than light, at least 5 to 84 times the speed of light, the speed before the damage would be at least 260.85 to 306,810 times the speed of light.

    If the Enterprise traveled faster than light to Delta Vega, there could be 10 to 24 hours in a stardate unit as other evidence in "where No Man B Has Gone Before" indicates.

    There are only two stardates in "The Naked Time".

    In the rec room, Sulu, Riley, and Tormolen are having a meal when:

    So Sulu and Riley are on duty and probably taking a lunch break, while Tormolen seems to have gone off duty sometime after returning from the planet.

    I can only guess that there are about 1 to 24 hours in 0.2 stardate units between the two stardates, thus making about 5 to 120 hours in a stardate unit.

    Later the Enterprise is thrown back in time 71 hours. If the original version or the TOS-R version shows a clear shot of the stardate then, the length of a stardate unit in "The Naked Time" can be calculated.

    In "The Enemy Within" five stardates are given, from 1672.1 to 1673.1. Those correspond to later afternoon to sometime during the night on the planet Alfa 177, and thus to about 3 to 12 hours if Alfa 177 days are similar enough to Earth days in length, a dubious assumption. So possibly, repeat possibly, a stardate unit might be 3 to 12 hours long.

    Kirk makes his fourth log entry, possibly while confused, on stardate 1673.5. Spock makes the fifth log on stardate 1673.1. There are three possibilities:

    1) the transcript of the episode includes one or more incorrect stardates different from the ones in the episode.

    2) Kirk was too weak to use the correct stardate in his fourth log entry.

    3) The stardate actually decreased by 0.4 units during the interval, which would prove that stardate units sometimes decrease. Unless a chronologist assumes that it was merely a script error.

    In post number on page 2 I discuss "What are Little Girls Made of?"

    There is only one stardate in "What are Little Girls Made of?" so there are no clues about stardate length in that episode.

    In post number 41 on page 3, I calculated the length of a stardate unit in "Miri" .

    Later they calculate how much time they have left to live:

    Later:

    "Three days and seven hours are 79 hours, so that is 91 hours, or 3 days and 19 hours, after 170 hours were left, which was sometime after stardate 2713.6. So there are at least 91 hours in 3.8 stardate units, making at least 23.9, or twenty three point nine, hours in a stardate unit."

    In post number 45 on page 3 I discuss "Dagger of the Mind".

    When Dr. Van Gelder is discovered aboard, they head back to Tantalus V. Later:

    So the round trip from Tantalus to where they turn around and back to Tantalus should be at least 115 minutes, almost two hours.

    .

    "So 0.1 stardate units between 2715.1 and 2715.2 equals at least 120 minutes or two hours, meaning that in this episode 1 stardate unit should equal at least 20 hours."

    I also note that a stardate unit at least 20 hours long wouldn't fit well with the number of stardate units since "Charlie X", and would result in only 2,191.5 stardate units in exactly five years, though there are many more stardate units in the five year mission.

    "Three possibilities:

    One) Kirk's five year mission is stretched considerably to allow for the many more than 2,191.5 stardate units it covers.

    Two) the relationship between stardate units and time units changes and varies over time.

    Three) different stardate systems, with different lengths of stardate units are used in different episodes, perhaps due to changes in the system, or else to Starfleet using different stardate systems in different alternate universes the episodes happen in."

    In post number 46 on page 3 I discuss "The Corbomite Maneuver".

    "So there are 1.6 stardate units and 18 hours between 1512.2 and 1513.8. Thus in "The Corbomite Maneuver" a stardate unit seems to be approximately eleven and a quarter (eleven point two five) hours long, considerably shorter than it seems to be in "Dagger of the Mind"."

    To sum up so far:

    In "The Man Trap" there are fewer than 68.6 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Charlie X" an uncertain interval of time means that there might possibly be fewer than 10 or 11 hours per stardate unit, or possibly much more.

    In "Where No Man Has Gone Before" a stardate unit should be about 10 to 24 hours long - if the Enterprise travels faster than light on the voyage from the barrier to Delta Vega.

    In "The Naked Time" there might be about 5 to 120 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "The Enemy Within" possibly, repeat possibly, a stardate unit might be 3 to 12 hours long, assuming that days on Alfa 177 are about as long as Earth days, a dubious assumption. There is also a possible example of a stardate decreasing with time.

    There is only one stardate in "What are Little Girls Made of?" so there are no clues about stardate length in that episode.

    In "Miri" it seems like there are at least 23.9, or twenty three point nine, hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Dagger of the MInd" 1 stardate unit should equal at least 20 hours.

    In "The Corbomite Maneuver" a stardate unit seems to be about 11.25 hours long.

    Thus "Where No Man Has Gone Before", "The Naked Time", "Miri" , and "Dagger of the MInd" might use the same stardate system, with stardates 23.9 to 24 hours long.

    "The Corbomite Maneuver", "The Enemy Within", "The Naked Time", and "where No Man Has Gone Before" might all use the same stardate system. with stardates 11.25 hours long.

    And there are other possiblities.

    To Be Continued:.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  13. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Location:
    Henoch in Charge
    I "fix" most (but not all) stardates inconsistencies using the following logic (number 4 being the "fix"):
    1 1000 stardates = one Earth year or 365.25 days or 8766 hours; or ~2.74 stardates = 1 day or 1.0 stardates = 0.365 days (8.76 hours);
    2 Scene or actor delivered stardates on-screen are actual stardates of the event and cannot be changed;
    3 Log entries are always spoken in the present tense narrative;
    4 "Log" entries can be minutes, hours, days, weeks, months after actual events as-recorded in the ship's records during the episode or as-edited in the mission report after the event;
    5 I try to assume the least amount of lapsed time of log entries (report while still fresh in memory) but you can also assume any length of time prior to the inserted log stardates, even several months on rare occasion.
    6 It is better to sort the episodes by finish stardates, but this is only a minor issue versus start stardates;
    7 Episode durations and time between episodes must be estimated based on episode dialog or action; as a rule of thumb, one to two weeks (20-40 stardates) should be allowed between episodes, but only a day or two is sufficient to travel several star systems if they are in a hurry like answering a distress call (speed of plot can be very fast);
    8 Several unknown stardate episodes must be estimated; as a rule of thumb, try to stick to production order if possible, i.e. put episode 54 as close to 53 or 55 as possible;
    9 I put in additional time to complete the unaired parts of each mission (x days scanning before episode, deliver x to y after episode) or for repairs, set changes and starbase visits; serious ship repairs can take one or two weeks; upgrades maybe longer.
    10 If there is no explanation for something that doesn't fit, assume it is a script error and move along. (This actually occurs with five episodes: TCOTK (maybe); TGOT; TDY; ATCSL; SB which I rule all have script errors.)
    11 Have fun is the most important rule.

    For example, here's my run down for the following three problematic first season episodes:
    Stardate
    2664.0 actual start stardate for What Are Little Girls Made Of?
    2670.0 actual finish stardate for What Are Little Girls Made Of? Duration 6.0 stardates or 2.2 days.
    2682.5 actual start stardate for Miri.
    2702.5 actual finish stardate for Miri. Duration 20.0 stardates or 7 days.
    2712.4 Kirk records his only log entry in his mission report for What Are Little Girls Made Of?
    2713.5 Kirk records his first log entry in his mission report for Miri.
    2715.1 actual start stardate and recorded first log entry for Dagger of the Mind which interrupts Kirk's mission report for Miri.
    2715.2 actual stardate and recorded second log entry for Dagger of the Mind.
    2717.1 actual finish stardate for Dagger of the Mind. Duration 2.0 stardates or 0.7 days.
    2717.3 Kirk records his final log entry in his mission report for Miri.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  14. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Stardates in TOS Season One, Part Two.

    I discussed "Mudd's Women" in post number 47 on page 3.

    Captain's log, Stardate 1329.1. We've taken aboard from unregistered transport vessel its captain and, and three unusual females. These women have a mysterious magnetic effect on the male members of my crew, including myself. Explanation unknown at present.[Captain's quarters]

    If the transcript recorded both of those stardates correctly, the stardate may have actually decreased by 0.7 of a stardate unit in the interval. Unless the "mysterious magnetic effect" the woman had on Kirk made him give the wrong stardate in the second log entry, and it was really 1330.1 or something. All of the later stardates in the episode increase after this one and two of them are still lower than 1329.8. Of course it is possible that Kirk was excited during the pursuit of Mudd's ship and said stardate 1329.8 when it was really stardate 1328.9.

    So some people may consider this episode proof that stardates sometimes go down as well as going up.

    When they need new dilithtum crystals to control the ship's power:

    Leo Walsh turns out to be Harcourt Fenton Mudd, who doesn't have a valid Master's license.

    If Rigel XII was less than two days' travel, it should have been between 1.5 and 2.0 days' travel. Did Spock mean 24 hour days, making the journey last for 36 to 48 hours, or did he mean a working day or watch? In that case, if there are two 12 hour watches per 24 hours, the journey should take 18 to 24 hours, if there are three 8 hour watches per day, the journey would take 12 to 16 hours, if there are four 6 hour watches per day, the journey should take 9 to 12 hours.

    If Spock was speaking of 24 hour days, they should have traveled for 22 to 34 hours by stardate 1330.1; if Spock was speaking of 12 hour days, they should have traveled for 4 to 10 hours; if Spock was speaking of 8 hour days, s they should have traveled for minus 2 to plus 2 hours; if Spock was speaking of 6 hour days, this would be before they left on voyage to Rigel!.

    They headed for Rigel XII sometime between stardates 1329.1 and 1329.2, 0.9 to 1 stardate units before stardate 1330.1. So there should be fewer than 2 to 2.22 hours per stardate unit, or 4 to 11.11 hours per stardate unit, or 22 to 37.77 hours per stardate unit. If the stardates in the episode are not all messed up because Kirk was too distracted by the women to record an accurate stardate even once.

    In post number 46 on page 3 I discuss "the Corbomite Maneuver".

    They encounter the warning buoy and Kirk makes the first log:

    They wait and consider options while the buoy blocks their path.

    Kirk tries to evade the buoy put it closes in and threatens them so Kirk destroys it.

    So there are 1.6 stardate units in a period of 18 hours, thus making about 11.25 hours per stardate unit.

    0.2 stardate units later should thus be about 2.25 hours later.

    Kirk decides to "boldy go" forward, and they encounter the Fesarius. Balok begins to tow the Enterprise with his small command ship.

    This should be about 1.125 hours after the previous log entry.

    I discuss "The Conscience of the King" in post number 48 on page 3

    And before the next stardate, 2818.9, Kirk asks the library computer questions about Kodos.

    "The event on stardate 2794.7 could have been a recent event like closing the Kodos case. But if it was an event during the Tarsus IV disaster, there would be 20.0 to 21.0 years in only 22.9 stardate units, making each stardate unit 0.87 to 0.91 Earth years long, and making the voyage to Benecia take up all the five year mission.

    Maybe the stardate system changed during those 20 years.

    Maybe stardates increase from 0000 to 9999, drop back to 0000 and increase to 9999, over and over again. Maybe the four digit stardates in TOS are the last four digits of longer "real" stardates Either possibility would mean that there would be ten thousand more stardates for each time that the last four digits passed 9999 between the Tarsus IV massacre and the episode. Thus stardate units could be only a few hours long.

    Leonore Karidian asks Kirk to transport the Karidian company to Benecia and Kirk agrees.

    So they leave Planet Q for Bencia sometime between stardate 2817.6 and stardate 2818.9. If there are 0.87 to 0.91 years in a stardate unit, the 1.3 stardate units between the two logs would total 1.131 to 1.183 years.

    So if they left Planet Q between stardates 2817.6 and 2818.9, the voyage to Benecia will take 6.4 to 7.7 stardate units. If there were 0.87 to 0.91 years per stardate unit, the voyage to Benecia would last 5.568 to 7.007 years.

    There are two scenes set during ships nighttime on the Enterprise and a play is about to be performed at night when the next log is made:

    There may be about half a day, one and half days, or two and a half days in the interval since leaving Planet Q, depending whether the night scenes happen during one, two or three nights. Thus during the 0.9 to 2.2 stardate units there coudl be about 12, 36, or 60 hours, and thus about 5.45 to 13.33, hours, 16.36 to 40, or 27.27 to 66.66 hours per stardate unit. And the voyage to B3encia lasting 6.4 to 7.7 stardate units would thus take about 34.88 to 513.28 hours.

    In post number 55 on page 3 I discuss "The Managerie Part 1" and "The Menagerie Part 2".

    Spock tells Pike that the voyage from Starbase 11 to Talos IV will take 6 days at maximum warp, although there is some evidence that it takes only about one day.

    An unspecified time after Kirk arrives on the Enterprise:

    Spock choose an immediate court martial:

    Spock begins showing his evidence.

    "the "Menagerie Part 1" opens with a recap of the previous episode.

    Do the past 24 hours go back only as far as the beginning of Spock's court martial on stardate 3012.6, thus making 24 hours in 0.5 stardate units and 48 hours per stardate unit.

    Or do the 24 hours go back to Spock's hearing on stardate 3012.4, thus making 24 hours in 0.7 stardate units, and 38.57 hours per stardate unit?

    Or do the 24 hours go back to the beginning of the episode at an unmentioned stardate, so that there could be 24 hours per stardate unit., or 12 hours, or some other number?

    After Pike rests, the court martial reconvenes.

    So now they are only one hour from Talos IV. Assuming that Stardate 3012.4 was between 0 and 72 hours after the voyage to Talos IV began, and that the voyage to Talos IV last 5.5 to 7.0 days, or 132 to 168 hours, there should be 59 to 167 hours in 0.8 stardate units between 3012.4 and 3013.2, or 73.75 to 208.75 hours per stardate unit.

    What if Spock did not mean 24 hour days when saying the voyage to Talos IV would last 6 days? What if Spock meant work days or watches aboard ship, which were 12 hours or 8 hours or 6 hours long? Then the voyage to Talos IV would last 66 to 84 hours, or 44 to 56 hours, or 33 to 42 hours. If half to all of the voyage happens in 0.8 stardate units, there will be 41.25 to 105 hours, or 27.5 to 70 hours, or 20.625 to 52.5 hours, in a stardate unit.

    Or possibly the Talosians gave Captain Kirk the illusion each day when he woke that it was the second day of Spock's trial, so Kirk went through a sort of Groundhog Day experience, repeating the second day over and over until they reached Talos IV.

    Or possibly it took a lot less than 6 days to reach Talos IV from Starbase 11.

    So in "the Managerie" a stardate unit could equal 48 hours, 38.57 hours, 73.75 to 208.75 hours, 41.25 to 105 hours, or 27.5 to 70 hours, or 20.625 to 52.5 hours, or some unspecified different number of hours.

    In post number 59 on page 3 I discuss "Balance of Terror" stardates.

    After the wedding of Angela Martine and Robert Tomlinson is postponed due to a Romulan attack.

    Kirk orders Uhura to send updates of status to the nearest command bases every quarter hour. A Romulan ship destroys outpost four and they follow the Romulan ship back toward the Neutral Zone. The fight the Romulans, and the Romulan ship continues toward the Neutral Zone.

    One minute from the Neutral zone, the Enterprise fires on the Romulans. After fighting, both ships stay where they are, playing dead.

    They wait some more.

    Later, the ships fire again. After the final battle:

    So the 0.3 stardate units between stardates 1709.2 and 1709.5, plus at least nine hours and 47 minutes or at least 9.7833 hours, total less than 24 hours. With less than 14.216 hours in 0.3 stardate units, there are fewer than 47.38 hours per stardate unit.

    So in "Mudd's Women" there should be fewer than 2 to 2.22 hours per stardate unit, or 4 to 11.11 hours per stardate unit, or 22 to 37.77 hours per stardate unit.

    In "The Corbomite Maneuver" there are 11.25 hours per stardate unit..

    In "The Conscience of the King" there should be about 5.45 to 13.33, hours, 16.36 to 40 hours, or 27.27 to 66.66 hours per stardate unit.

    In "the Managerie" a stardate unit could equal 48 hours, 38.57 hours, 73.75 to 208.75 hours, 41.25 to 105 hours, or 27.5 to 70 hours, or 20.625 to 52.5 hours, or some unspecified different number of hours.

    In "Balance of Terror" there are fewer than 47.38 hours per stardate unit.

    To be Continued.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  15. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    Bear in mind that the first captain's log of the episode is not made until just before Spock's court martial begins. They could easily be 5 days into the journey to Talos by that point, having spent the intervening time trying to wrest control back from the locked-out computer.
    Not to mention time needed for staff to prep for the court martial
     
    Spockskin likes this.
  16. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Stardates in TOS Season One, Part Three.

    I discuss "Shore Leave" in post number on page 4.

    On the planet, Mccoy sees the white rabbit and Alice.

    On the ship, Kirk dictates a log:

    McCoy then calls Kirk to report he rabbit and Spock convinces Kirk to go to the planet.

    On the planet, Sulu finds a pistol, Kirk meets Finnegan, Yeoman Barrows is attacked by Don Juan, and Kirk meets Ruth.

    .

    "So if Kirk got the decimal points correct, there were 0.5 stardate units between 3025.3 and 3025.8. If I was a member of a landing party there would be only so long I could stay on the surface of the planet before I had to beam back up to the ship for a meal or to use the bathroom, etc., I guess people will differ on how long half a stardate unite could be without some people beaming back to the ship by now. I can't help thinking that in "Shore Leave" half a stardate unit should be a lot less than half a 24 hour day."

    Duty calls and Kirk reluctantly leaves Ruth. Yeoman Barrows finds a princess costume, Rodriquez sees a tiger, Sulu is attacked by a samurai, Spock beams down, The black knight kills McCoy.

    And there are no more logs or stardates in the episode.

    Obviously a stardate unit in "Shore Leave" should be short enough that half a stardate unit is a short enough time that none of the shore party would want or need to beam back to the ship for anything. So a stardate in "Shore Leave" should be less than twice as long as the maximum time that a chronologist thinks that people would voluntarily stay on a planet's surface.

    I discuss the Galileo 7" in post number 77 on page 4.

    The Muraski 312 goes wild, and the Galileo 7 is drawninto it.

    Kirk has only two days to find them before leaving for Makus III.

    So approximately 2.1 stardate units equal approximately two days.

    But what type of days? I can think of about four possibilities.

    One, 24 hour days, which makes a stardate unit equal about 22.8 hours. Two, workdays or watches 12 hours long, making a stardate unit about 11.42 hours long.. Three, workdays or watches 8 hours long, making a stardate unit about 7.6 hours long. Four, workdays or watches 6 hours long, making a stardate unit about 5.7 hours long.

    Presumably right after that log, Ferris says:

    So there are 24 hours between a time that is somewhere between 2822.3 and 2823.1 and 2823.8, and thus 24 hours in 0.8 to 1.5 stardate units, making 16 to 34.28 hours per stardate unit.

    Sometime presumably soon after stardate 2823.1, Ferris says:

    So there are two hours and 42 minutes, or 2.7 hours, in less than 0.7 stardate units.making more than 3.8 hours per stardate unit.

    So the only one of the four earlier possibilities consistent with the 24 hour statement of Ferris is the one that makes a stardate unit about 22.8 hours long - possibly 24 hours.

    I discuss "The Squire of Goths" in Post number 78 on page 4.

    The first log is:

    When Trelane unfreezes Kirk, McCoy says:

    So this should be shortly after the first log was made.

    So the Enteprise made 14 orbits around Gothos, some in the four hours before 2124.5 and some in the 1.2 stardate units period between 2124.5 and 2125.7. I note that the shortest period for an orbit around Earth is about 90 minutes, which would make the ship in orbit around Gothos for 1,260 minutes or 21 hours,.About 11.333 of the orbits would have been made in the 1.2 stardate units between 2124.5 and 2125.7, making 17 hours pass and a stardte unit equal 14.166 hours..

    Then Spock beams them up to the ship.

    The time since Trelane unfroze Kirk seems to be a lot closer to 17 minutes than to 17 hours. Perhaps the Enterprise can orbit the planet Gorthos in a lot less than 90 minutes. And possibly some sort of time warp causes time to pass much slower on Gothos than on the Enterprise.

    Trelane appears and takes them back to Gothos. After a few minutes, Kirk challenges Trelane to a duel

    So there are 0.4 stardate units before the duel, possibly about 5.666 hours, which seems many times too long, so the Enterprise should really zip around Gothos much master than an Earth satellite. And possibly some sort of time warp causes time to pass much slower on Gothos than on the Enterprise.

    As they try to flee, Trelane blocks their path with the planet Gothos. Kirk decides to beam down to Gothos,

    If there were some minutes between stardate 2126.1 and Kirk deciding to beam down to Gothos, and almost an hour has passed since Kirk beamed down, there should be approximately a hour in the 0.2 stardate units between 2126.1 and 2126.3. and thus there should be about about 5 hours in a stardate unit in "The Squire of Gothos".

    Continued:
     
  17. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Stardates in TOS season One Part Four.

    I discussed "Arena" in post number 83 on page five.

    They fight off a Gorn attack, leave medical personnel to search for survivors on Censtus III, and pursue the fleeing Gorn ship.

    After pursuing the alien vessel for an unspecified period of time:

    They are stopped by the Metrons, and Kirk is sent to a planet to fight the Gorn Captain.

    So there are 0.6 stardate units between the two logs. And no real indication of how much time elapses between those two stardate. According to the official TOS warp scale it should take weeks, months or years to travel that distance, while according to the structure of the story there could be only a few hours between the two stardates. Thus the length of stardate units in "Arena" is really uncertain.

    I discussed "Tomorrow is Yesterday" in post 85 on page 5.

    All the stardates used in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" should be somewhat inaccurate since the Enterprise is centuries in the past when they are logged. Presumably they are the stardates which would have been valid if the Enterprise stayed in it own time, counting the time elapsed on the Enterprise since the last log entries were made. Or possibly stardates were already used by someone in that era so they might be the stardates valid in the time that the Enterprise was now in.

    Mr. Scott says that it will take four hours to re-energize the warp engines.

    Kirk is captured down in the airbase, and Scott calls Spock to say that the warp engines have been re-energized. Kirk is rescued.

    "So this should be about four hours after Scott said the engines would be ready in about four hours, which was between stardates 3113.2 and 3113.7. This is between stardates 3113.9 and 3114.1, so four hours in 0.2 to 0.9 stardate units should equal about 4.44 to 20 hours per stardate unit. Since a different calculation indicates about 7.2 to 33.8 hours in a stardate unit, there should be about 7.2 to 20 hours in a stardate unit in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"."

    Kirk says the Enterprise will travel back in time "beyond yesterday", beyond when they encountered captain Christopher, which should have been about 5:30 PM local time. So that indicates that stardate 3113.2 was about 6.5 to 30.5 hours earlier, making about 7.2 to 33.8 hours per stardate unit. Since a different clue indicates about 4.44 to 20 hours in a stardate unit there may be 7.2 to 20 hours in a stardate unite in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".

    "Tomorrow is Yesterday" indicates there may be 7.2 to 20 hours in a stardate unit.

    I discussed "Court Martial" in post number 94 on page 5.

    Captain's Log, Stardate 2947.3. We have been through a severe ion storm. One crewman is dead. Ship's damage is considerable. I have ordered a non-scheduled layover on Starbase Eleven for repairs. A full report of damages was made to the commanding officer of Starbase Eleven, Commodore Stone.

    And there are a few indications of how much time passes between those stardates.

    Jamie Finney accuses Kirk of Murdering her father in Stone's office between stardates 2947.3 and 2948.5. Sometime between stardates 2948.5 and 2948.9 Kirk tells Stone:

    If this was more than a day and half after Jamie was there, the next night would already have passed and become last night, and the night Jamie was there would have been "the night before last". Making the rather dubious assumption that Starbase 11 uses Earth time, there should have been fewer than 36 to 48 hours in about 0.1 to 1.6 stardate units, and thus fewer than 22.5 to 480 hours per stardate unit.

    Between stardates 2949.9 and 2950.1 Jame says:

    She says "that night", so presumably at least 36 to 48 hours have passed and the night she accused Kirk is no longer "last night". So at least 36 to 48 hours in 1.4 to 2.8 stardate units makes at least 12.85 to 34.28 hours per stardate unit.

    Between stardates 2949.9 and 2950.1 Kirk says.

    Kirk and Cogley's statements imply that Kirk staked everything on his judgement 2 days ago. If that was when Kirk demanded an immediate court martial in Stone's office on stardate 2948.9, there would have been approximately 48 hours, may be 36 to 60, in a difference of 1 stardate unit, and thus about 36 to 60 hours per stardate unit.

    Or maybe the two days earlier, about 36 to 60 hours, were at Stardate 2948.5, 1.4 stardate units earlier, thus making about 25.7 to 42.8 hours per stardate unit.

    Or maybe the two days earlier, about 36 to 60 hours, were at Stardate 2947.3, 2.6 stardate units earlier, thus making about 13.8 to 23 hours per stardate unit. per stardate unit.hours per stardate unit.

    So in "Court Martial" there should be about 13.8 to 23 hours, or about 25.7 to 42.8 hours, or about 36 to 60 hours, in a stardate unit.

    To recap the second 10 episodes of the first season of TOS:

    In Mudd's Women" there should be fewer than 2 to 2.22 hours per stardate unit, or 4 to 11.11 hours per stardate unit, or 22 to 37.77 hours per stardate unit. If the stardates in the episode are not all messed up because Kirk was too distracted by the women to record an accurate stardate even once.

    In "The Corbomite Maneuver" there are 1.6 stardate units in a period of 18 hours, thus making about 11.25 hours per stardate unit.

    In "The Conscience of the King" there may be about about 5.45 to 13.33, hours, 16.36 to 40, or 27.27 to 66.66 hours per stardate unit.

    In "the Menagerie", parts 1 & 2 a stardate unit could equal 48 hours, 38.57 hours, 73.75 to 208.75 hours, 41.25 to 105 hours, or 27.5 to 70 hours, or 20.625 to 52.5 hours, or some unspecified different number of hours.

    In "Balance of Terror" there are fewer than 47.38 hours per stardate unit.

    In "Shore Leave" the number of hours in a stardate unit should be few enough that nobody would want to beam back to the ship during half a stardate unit.

    In "The Galileo 7" a stardate unit should be about 22.8 hours long - possibly 24 hours.

    In "The Squire of Gothos" there should be about about 5 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Arena" the length of stardate units is really uncertain.

    In "Tomorrow is Yesterday" there should be about 7.2 to 20 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Court Martial" there should be about 13.8 to 23 hours, or about 25.7 to 42.8 hours, or about 36 to 60 hours, in a stardate unit.
     
  18. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Stardates in TOS season One part Six:

    I discuss "the Return of the Archons" in post number 95 on page 5.

    "So about six hours have passed since the last time they communicated. So 6 hours pass from a time between stardate 3156.2 and stardate 3157.4 and another time between stardate 3157.4 and stardate 3158.7. Assuming that at least 0.1 stardate unit elapses, there should be 6 hours in 0.1 to 2.5 stardate units. So there should be 2.4 to 60 hours in a stardate unit. And those should be Earth hours."

    "The Return of the Archons" indicates there are 2.4 to 60 Earth hours in a stardate unit.

    I discuss "Space Seed" in post number 100 on page 5.

    "Obviously there are over 9 hours between stardate 3141.9 and stardate 3142.8. So at least 9 hours in 0.9 stardate units means there are at least 10 hours in a stardate unit."

    So "Space Seed" has at least 10 hours in a stardate unit.

    I discuss "A Tasted of Armageddon" in post number 107 on page 6.

    "So almost but not quite 24 hours have passed between stardate 3192.5, shortly before those 24 hours began, and an unknown length of time after stardate 3193.0. Thus a period of 0.5 stardate units must be less than 24 hours long, and there must be less than 48 hours in a stardate unit."

    So in "A Taste of Armageddon" there are fewerthan 48hours in a stardate unit.

    I discuss "This Side of Paradise" in post number 110 on page 6.

    "From what I see they apparently spend less than a day on the surface of Omicron Ceti III during the episode. So the 0.4 stardate units between stardate 3417.3 and stardate 3417.7 should be less than 24 hours and less than the 12 hours of an average period of daylight on Earth, unless the days are longer on omicron Ceti III.. So thee should be fewer than 60 hours in a stardate unit, and probably fewer than 30 hours.

    Between stardates 3417.3 and 3417.5, McCoy says:

    So there seem to be at least 2 hours in less than 0.2 stardate units. Thus there seem to be at least 10 hours per stardate unit."

    Thus three seem to be 10 to 60 hours per stardate unit in "This Side of Paradise".

    I discuss "The Devil in the Dark" in post number 111 on page 6. Unfortunately, there is only one stardate given in the episode.

    I discuss "Errand of Mercy" in post number 121 on page 7.

    I found the length of a stardate unite in "Errand of Mercy" very puzzling.

    "Apparently only minutes have passed since the ending of the last scene. 3.3 stardate units have passed between 3198.4 and 3201.7. Each minute that passed during that interval makes a stardate unit 0.3030 minutes longer; each hour that passes during that interval makes a stardate unit 0.3030 hours longer, each day that passes during that interval makes a stardate unit 0.3030 days longer.

    And I can't help wondering how to make the interval of 3.3 stardates last much longer than the actually time shown onscreen between them during the episode."

    It would be normal to interpret the episode as indicating that only about 5 or 10 minutes pass between stardates 3198.4 and 3201.7. Which would make about 1.51 to 3.03 minutes per stardate unit!.

    There would have to be 3.3 hours between the two stardates to make 1 hour per stardate unit, 6.6 hours between them to make 2 hours per stardate unit, 9.9 hours between them to make 3 hours per stardate unit, and so on. There should have been 33 hours between the two stardates to make 10 hours per stardate unit, 66 hours to make 20 hours per stardate unit, 79.2 hours to make 24 hours per stardate unit, and so on.

    So possibly a lot more time somehow passed between the two stardates than was seen in the episode.

    I discuss "The Alternative Factor" in post number 122 on page 7.

    " 3088.7 is 0.4 stardate units after 3088.3 Since at least 1 hour elapses in that period, there must be at least 2.5 hours in a stardate unit in "The Alternative Factor"."

    So there are at least 2.5 hours in a stardate unit in "the Alternative Factor".

    I discuss "The City on the Edge of Forever" in post number 124 on page 7. There are no stardates in the episode.

    I discuss "Operation - Annihilae!" in post number 128 on page 7.

    "The 2.6 stardate units between stardates 3287.2. and 3289.8 could happen within a single day, thus making less than 9.2 hours per stardate unit, or possibly take more time than that. "

    So if stardates 3287.2 and 3289.8 happen within a day, there are fewer than 9.2 hours per stardate unit. If they are between 24 and 48 9.23 hours apart, there are 18.46 hours per stardate unit, if they happen 48 to 72 hours apart there are 18.46 to 27.69 hours per stardate unit.

    So I guess that my next post should list all of the stardate lengths from all 29 episodes of the first season.
     
  19. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Stardates in TOS season One part Six:

    I discuss "the Return of the Archons" in post number 95 on page 5.

    "So about six hours have passed since the last time they communicated. So 6 hours pass from a time between stardate 3156.2 and stardate 3157.4 and another time between stardate 3157.4 and stardate 3158.7. Assuming that at least 0.1 stardate unit elapses, there should be 6 hours in 0.1 to 2.5 stardate units. So there should be 2.4 to 60 hours in a stardate unit. And those should be Earth hours."

    "The Return of the Archons" indicates there are 2.4 to 60 Earth hours in a stardate unit.

    I discuss "Space Seed" in post number 100 on page 5.

    "Obviously there are over 9 hours between stardate 3141.9 and stardate 3142.8. So at least 9 hours in 0.9 stardate units means there are at least 10 hours in a stardate unit."

    So "Space Seed" has at least 10 hours in a stardate unit.

    I discuss "A Tasted of Armageddon" in post number 107 on page 6.

    "So almost but not quite 24 hours have passed between stardate 3192.5, shortly before those 24 hours began, and an unknown length of time after stardate 3193.0. Thus a period of 0.5 stardate units must be less than 24 hours long, and there must be less than 48 hours in a stardate unit."

    So in "A Taste of Armageddon" there are fewer than 48 hours in a stardate unit.

    I discuss "This Side of Paradise" in post number 110 on page 6.

    "From what I see they apparently spend less than a day on the surface of Omicron Ceti III during the episode. So the 0.4 stardate units between stardate 3417.3 and stardate 3417.7 should be less than 24 hours and less than the 12 hours of an average period of daylight on Earth, unless the days are longer on omicron Ceti III.. So thee should be fewer than 60 hours in a stardate unit, and probably fewer than 30 hours.

    Between stardates 3417.3 and 3417.5, McCoy says:

    So there seem to be at least 2 hours in less than 0.2 stardate units. Thus there seem to be at least 10 hours per stardate unit."

    Thus three seem to be 10 to 60 hours per stardate unit in "This Side of Paradise".

    I discuss "The Devil in the Dark" in post number 111 on page 6. Unfortunately, there is only one stardate given in the episode.

    I discuss "Errand of Mercy" in post number 121 on page 7.

    Apparently only a few minutes pass on screen in the 3.3 stardate units between stardates 3198.4 and 3201.7, and the plot doesn't seem to have room for many more minutes to pass off screen between those two stardates. Thus about there should be about 5 to 20 minutes in 3.3 stardate units and there should be about 1.51 to 6.06 minutes per stardate unit.

    Maybe it took hours or days between stardate units to locate a town that it seemed reasonable to beam down to, or something. I find it hard to believe that stardate units could be as short as indicated.

    I discuss "The Alternative Factor" in post number 122 on page 7.

    There should be at least 1.4 hours, and also at least 2.5 hours, in a stardate unit.

    I discuss "The City on the Edge of Forever" in post number 124 on page 7.

    Unfortunately there are no stardates in "The City on the Edge of Forever".

    I discuss "Operation - Annihilate!" in post number 128 on page 7.

    The 2.6 stardate units between stardates 3287.2. and 3289.8 could happen within a single day, thus making fewer than 9.2 hours per stardate unit, or possibly take more time than that.

    To sum up:

    In "The Return of the Archons" there should bee 2.4 to 60 Earth hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Space Seed" there should be at least 10 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "A taste of Armageddon" there should be fewer than 48 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "This Side of Paradise". there should be 10 to 60 hours in a stardate unit.

    There is no way to estimate the length of a stardate unit in "The Devil in the Dark", which has only one stardate.

    In "Errand of Mercy" there should be 1.51 to 6.06 minutes - not hours - hours in a stardate unit, which seems very hard to believe..

    In "The Alternative Factor" there should be at least 1.4 hours, and also at least 2.5 hours, in a stardate unit.

    There is no way to estimate the length of a stardate unit in "The City on the Edge of Forever", which has no stardates.

    In "Operation - Annihlate!" there should possibly be fewer than 9.2 hours per stardate unit, possibly more.,
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  20. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Stardates in TOS Season One Every Episode:

    In "The Man Trap" there should be fewer than 68.6 hours per stardate unit.

    In "Charlie X" there might possibly be fewer than 10.09 hours per stardate unit, or possibly more.

    In "Where No Man Has Gone before" there should be 10 to 24 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "The Naked Time" there should be about 5 to 120 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "The Enemy Within" there might possibly be 3 to 12 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Mudd's Women" there should be 2.0 to 2.22 hours or 4.0 to 11.11 hours, or 22.0 to 37.77 hours, in a stardate unit.

    There is no way to estimate the length of a stardate unit in "What are Little Girls Made of?" which has only one stardate.

    in "Miri" there should at least 23.9 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Dagger of the Mind" there should be at least 20 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "The Corbomite Maneuver" there should be 11.25 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "the Menagerie" there could be 20.625 to 52.5 hours, or 27.5 to 70 hours, or 38.57 hours, or 48 hours, or 41.25 to 105 hours, or 73.75 to 208.75 hours, in a stardate unit, or possibly some different number.

    In "The Conscience of the King" there should be about 5.45 to 13.33, hours, 16.36 to 40, or 27.27 to 66.66 hours per stardate unit. Or possibly 0.87 to 0.91 Earth years in a stardate unit.

    In "Balance of Terror" there should be fewer than 47.38 hours per stardate unit.

    In "Shore Leave" there should be only a few hours in a stadate unit, since characters remain on the surface of a primitive planet for over half a stardate unit straight without beamng up to the ship..

    In "The Galileo 7" there should be about 22.8 hours in a stardate unit - possibly 24..

    In "The Squire of Gothos" there should be about 5 hours or about 14.166 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Arena" the length of a stardate unit is not clear since there is no explicit time span between stardates..

    In "Tomorrow is Yesterday" Thee should be 7.2 to 20 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Court Martial" there should be about 13.8 to 23 hours, or about 25.7 to 42.8 hours, or about 36 to 60 hours, in a stardate unit.

    In "The Return of the Archons" there should be 2.4 to 60 Earth hours in a stardate unit.

    In "Space Seed" there should be at least 10 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "A taste of Armageddon" there should be fewer than 48 hours in a stardate unit.

    In "This Side of Paradise". there should be 10 to 60 hours in a stardate unit.

    There is no way to estimate the length of a stardate unit in "The Devil in the Dark", which has only one stardate.

    In "Errand of Mercy" there should be 1.51 to 6.06 minutes - not hours - hours in a stardate unit, which seems very hard to believe..

    In "The Alternative Factor" there should be at least 1.4 hours, and also at least 2.5 hours, in a stardate unit.

    There is no way to estimate the length of a stardate unit in "The City on the Edge of Forever", which has no stardates.

    In "Operation - Annihlate!" there should possibly be fewer than 9.2 hours per stardate unit, possibly more.

    The only episode to give a rather precise length for a stardate unit is "the Corbomite maneuver" with 11.25 hours. Or possibly "The Squire of Gothos" if the figure of 5 hours from one calculation and the figure of 14.166 hours from another calculation can be resolved into one precise figure.

    So how to interpret these widely varying stardate lengths?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020