Today is the 44th anniversary of the Arecibo message into deep space.

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by The Godly Delight, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They'll simply conclude we invented the radio early, and didn't know about the other 20 yet.
     
  2. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    Well we did include the eccentric 9th orbital position, which the Plutonian dwarf cluster does inhabit. They'll have to account for such an archaic image anyway, so interpreting the systems structure will have to follow from that too.

    Yellow dwarves are rare, ones with 9 distinctly laid put orbital paths, two gas giants and two ice giants to lock onto, we made it a bit too easy.
     
  3. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The position of the solar system is shown relative to a number of pulsars - I wonder how accurate that map is given current knowledge and how long before it becomes effectively useless - longer than the many tens of thousands of years it will take for the probe to pass by other stars?
     
  4. The Godly Delight

    The Godly Delight All hail Doctor 13 Premium Member

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    True but why put naked pictures on there?
     
  5. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The probes were launched when the influence of the hippy era was still prevalent. "Everone's got something to hide except me and my monkey."
     
  6. Dudley the Bishop's assistant

    Dudley the Bishop's assistant Commander Red Shirt

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    It's not meant to be titillating. (If you think an alien would get excited by a drawing of a naked human, you've been watching too much 50s sci fi...) In addition to saying, "This is where we are.", the plaque (and the golden record of Earth sounds and music) also says, "This is who we are." Clothes aren't actually physically part of the human body and distort an accurate depiction of the body. Besides, fashion changes, over time and by culture. Who decides what these images should wear to represent the whole human race? The Voyager probes were science probes. The information sent along with them should also be about science.
     
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  7. The Godly Delight

    The Godly Delight All hail Doctor 13 Premium Member

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    My comment was tongue in cheek. Sorry if people took that out of context as it was not the intention. I know any alien wouldn't be turned on by a line drawing. By then anyway who is to say the plaques survived? They could be damaged through travel.
     
  8. Dudley the Bishop's assistant

    Dudley the Bishop's assistant Commander Red Shirt

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    Sorry, when you repeated the question, I assumed you were serious. Unfortunately, I've encountered people who are honestly offended by such things, so I leapt in zealously. My bad... :sigh:

    As far as the plaque (and recording) surviving millenia of dust and micrometeor bombardment, you're probably right. By the the time either of the Voyagers are anywhere near another star system, it'll be a pitted hunk of junk tumbling through space. Until some Klingon blasts it w/ phasers... :klingon:
     
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  9. The Godly Delight

    The Godly Delight All hail Doctor 13 Premium Member

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    You know that's one of my favourite small scenes...... And they added sound effects for when the probe got hit as if it was in pain
     
  10. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The aliens are just as likely to be offended by the depiction of the naked spider-like creature.
     
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  11. rhubarbodendron

    rhubarbodendron Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sorry to refer to a post made that far back but I only just discovered this thread.
    The radio signals on and around Earth are a fairly new thing. They have been there for little more than 100 years (Hertz discovered them in 1886, the first message was sent by Marconi in 1895). Given that the signals travel at light speed, that'd make a radius of roughly 125 lightyears. As far as we know no habitable or inhabited planet is within that radius.
    Also, at that distance the signals would get distorted by gravity, reflexions, interference and Doppler effect. It'd be rather unlikely that they'd still be readable. Just look at what happens to a simple cell phone, wireless or HAM radio signal over a distance of few miles, particularly in foggy weather or during a sunstorm. The closest long wave radio station is perhaps 50 km from me as the crow flies and yet the signal is strongly contorted and often hardly readable. Even high frequency ultra short waves often get distorted at comparatively short distances, let alone > 100 lightyears.
     
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  12. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Commodore

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    Ham here.. I've used weak-signal digital modes like JT-9 to communiate from USA to New Zealand with less than a watt. Many times. And that was with a very poor receiver and laughable loop antenna hidden in a balcony. Signals can get out, and a starfaring civilization might have unimaginably better reception and signal-processing techniques than we've ever dreamed of, yet.

    For all we know the equivalent of Alien Shortwave-listners may look for late-industrial civilization's radio broadcasts for their rarity. Maybe most of them don't last long after harnessing electricity and the atom.
     
  13. rhubarbodendron

    rhubarbodendron Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    73 from the other side of the pond :)
    Sadly, I am no HAM myself (I thought 4 licenses including one DARC president in one family are more than enough :D ) else we could have a QSO and discuss it directly, possibly even using JT9 - it sounds pretty cool. I might eavesdrop there a little, occasionally. What equipment would you recommend?

    At the first glance you make a point that seems to contradict me but you forget to take into account that JT9 works by bouncing the signal off the ionosphere. It doesn't exit the ionosphere to enter space.
    Also, I'd like to point out that it's only a rather short distance from the US to NZ and no gravitational lenses, black holes, dark matter, interstellar dust clouds, magnetic fields of other planets etc. are there to distort or dampen the signal. It's a bit like comparing a toddler's first steps with a marathon run. (No offense meant - I'm just trying to use an image non HAMs are familiar with.) Both are locomotion but the distance and the obstacles are wildly different.
     
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  14. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Commodore

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    you mentioned signals dying out across town on ham equipment, and I was just pointing out that is not always the case. we're both correct

    not all sw signals bounce off the ionosphere. it doesn't quite work like that some do, of course.
    its obviously more efficient to sent vhs, uhf and further microwave signals into space, especially if you are transmitting outside of the atmosphere and don't really have to worry about absorption bands.



    Moonbounce (EME) uses uhf or shf to get the signal back and forth. it is intelligible. NASA gets signals from Voyager almost 1 light-day away from a very weak 1970's transmitter. I don't think anyone has to worry about Marconi's signal being picked up, of course, that was a longwave transmission and those tend to hug the ground. (Personally. I don't actually think Marconi's transatlantic signal was successful, i am fairly certain he faked it or deluded himself that he had received the signal)

    So we've been leaking signals out from earth for awhile. I don't think WE have the ability to make sense of them if we were on the far receiving end, but i do think a suitably advanced civilization could. The Arecibo message was probably a dumb idea, but i don't think it matters one way or another.
     
  15. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Stars an be great gravitational lenses--not having just a focal point--but a focal line.

    I have often wondered if the so-called Wow! signal was the result of Earth passing though a focal line briefly--although many think it was a singing comet type emission now.
     
  16. The Godly Delight

    The Godly Delight All hail Doctor 13 Premium Member

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    My belief and I truly believe this is that the WOW! signal was a focal point of communication and we lost it because Earth moves all the time and we moved off that fixed focal point. I really do think it was a signal.
     
  17. Spider

    Spider Dirty Old Man Premium Member

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    I have NEVER posted pics like that!
     
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