To "The" or not to "The"

[MacLeod]

You sometimes hear the HMS Victory referred to as 'the Victory'

 

[J.T.B.]

i don't get why you'd say you served "in" a ship not "on" a ship. that's just weird.

Why? Much of your life would be below decks, which seems more "in." Found this through Google Books:

A landsman lives in a house, therefore a seaman speaks of living in a ship -- not on a ship.
--UK Ministry of Defence, Admiralty Manual of Seamanship, 1995.​

Justin

 

[Greg Cox]

True story: Back when Tor was publishing the CONAN novels, we used to consult lists of old naval vessels in seach of adjectives. CONAN THE TRIUMPHANT, CONAN THE DEFIANT, CONAN THE INVINCIBLE, etc.

Sady, I don't think we ever got to CONAN THE ENTERPRISING . . ..

 

[Forbin]

And in the Bay Area, if you say you're going to the city, it means San Francisco, even though there are lots of other large cities in the area.

When I moved from Seattle to New York, I quickly discovered that if I mentioned "Washington," people assumed I meant D.C., not that state above Oregon . . ..

I had to train myself to say "Washington State," not just "Washngton." Even though nobody in the Northwest calls it that.

Moreover, if you live in northern New Jersey and say you're going to New York, it's assumed you mean the city. So if you're actually going to a destination in that giant state directly to the north of NJ that NY City is attached to like a little dog dick, you have to specify "I'm going to New York State for the weekend," or "I'm going to upstate New York."

 

[Captain Rob]

True story: Back when Tor was publishing the CONAN novels, we used to consult lists of old naval vessels in seach of adjectives. CONAN THE TRIUMPHANT, CONAN THE DEFIANT, CONAN THE INVINCIBLE, etc.

Sady, I don't think we ever got to CONAN THE ENTERPRISING . . ..

Conan makes a fortune after he opens a used sword shop to sell all of the swords and other gear he collected from the men he's slain.

 

[Butters]

You sometimes hear the HMS Victory referred to as 'the Victory'

Indeed, I almost always hear "The" before any ship name.

The Titanic
The Bismark
The QE2
The Herald of Free Enterprise
The Concordia
The Enterprise
The Defiant

"The" Voyager sounds perfectly fine. Its a small irritation that they just referred to the ship as "Voyager".

 

[Christopher]

^I can understand wondering why there are different usages, but being irritated by the fact that there's a difference seems odd to me.

 

[plynch]

Many things here seem odd to me.

 

[Butters]

^I can understand wondering why there are different usages, but being irritated by the fact that there's a difference seems odd to me.

There are many odd things in the world but being irritated by a a particular collection of sounds barely registers.

For example:
Nails on a chalkboard.
A scouse accent.
A fly buzzing around the room
"Back on Voyager..."

Some things just sound wrong, I won't be writing to my MP or setting up a facebook page about it, but its an irritation nonetheless.

 

[Christopher]

Well, I grew up hearing Kirk & co. refer to their ship as "the Enterprise," but when I read Diane Duane's novels in the '80s referring to it as just "Enterprise," I found it interesting and somewhat lyrical, not irritating.

 

[T'Cal]

The Enterprise.
The Defiant.
Voyager.

Made me cringe early on in ENT when they said "on Enterprise", but it's probably just habit: we're used to hearing the "the", so it sounds weird without; "The Voyager" would sound weird for the same reason.

I could swear Sisko called it Defiant not The Defiant. I guess I'll have to go watch some episodes...

 

[Butters]

Lyrically, I suppose is the issue, or rhythm perhaps. Theres a missing word and it sound wrong.

Janeway was the captain of the Federation starship Voyager.
Janeway was the captain of Federation starship Voyager.

The survivors were taken aboard the Voyager and given ice cream.
The survivors were taken aboard Voyager and given ice cream.

For me, it needs the "The".

 

[Christopher]

^As I've already said, of course there would be a "the" in the phrase "the Federation starship Voyager," because the article modifies the description "Federation starship." It's a totally separate question from whether you'd say "Voyager" or "the Voyager." Just as I would say "I come from Ohio," not "from the Ohio," but I would also say "I come from the state of Ohio," not "from state of Ohio." The article modifies the descriptor, not the proper noun.

Janeway always called her ship "Voyager," not "the Voyager," but she also routinely said "I'm Captain Kathryn Janeway of the Federation starship Voyager."

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Oh, I think about those oddities from time to time. One that gets me is, why do we "go to school/work/the store" but just "go home?" It's like "home" is treated as a direction (a la "go up," "go back," "go left") or a relative position indicator (like "go there" or "come over") rather than a location. We also find it in "take me home" or "May I see you home?"

Perhaps the instinctive desire to retreat to a place of comfort, security and familiarity, the underlying urge or need that when fulfulled provokes the word "home" to describe that state of fulfillment, is powerful enough to override our understanding of home as a location? Perhaps the connotations of "home" are so powerful that they overshadow the literal meaning and on some level "home" is always more an abstract goal or desire than a noun? Or at least the English language wound up failing to fully conquer it because of that; I wouldn't know about other languages. Perhaps some desires are just too strong or potentially overpowering to be comfortably contained in something as structured as language, at least in some instances?

I suppose the desire for safety and comfort might well lend itself to "home" being unknowingly treated as a direction, one that's almost as ingrained in our awareness as "up", "left" or "back"? I doubt there's any inbuilt part of our mind that screams "work!" or "store!", but there surely is a part screaming "home!"

 

[Sci]

Lyrically, I suppose is the issue, or rhythm perhaps. Theres a missing word and it sound wrong.

Janeway was the captain of the Federation starship Voyager.
Janeway was the captain of Federation starship Voyager.

Of course, if you refer to a ship of the U.S. Navy, that's exactly what you'd say.

"Janeway was the captain of United States Ship Voyager." Not, "Janeway was the captain of the United States Ship Voyager."

Same thing with the Royal Navy.

"Janeway was the captain of Her Majesty's Ship Voyager." Not, "Janeway was the captain of the Her Majesty's Ship Voyager."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I prefer it without the "The."

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

This reminds me of watching the movie Titanic the first time, and noticing that characters often mentioned the ship's name without the article, as in "Welcome to Titanic!" Before that, I had always thought of it as The Titanic.

 

[Captain Rob]

When I win Powerball, I'm going to buy a big-ass yacht and name it "The Enterprise". The onboard jetski will have "Voyager" on it.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

I think "the starship Enterprise" would still be correct under the Naval Style Guide, by the way.

Here's a thought: If the starship Enterprise had an artificial intelligence like the Andromeda Ascendant, would the ship itself be called "the Enterprise" while its A.I. would be called "Enterprise"?

 

[The Old Mixer]

You know what needs a "The" in front of it?

End.