To complete or not to complete

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Be thankful you are buying in the UK. Many U.S. DVDs go for up to $100. I had to buy a multi-region DVD player and order many DVDs from the U.K. for a more reasonable price. I would buy in order, though I started simultaneously with William Hartnell and Tom Baker as Baker is the Doctor I grew up with and I also wanted to see the show from the beginning.

As others stated I would not omit any shows as they all have some merit. My least favorite is Hartnell's The Web Planet as the special effects AND acting is pretty woeful. Even so I still enjoyed parts of it.

You do seem to get gouged on the price of the DVDs in the US. I started collecting the Pertwee and Tom Baker stories first and then a few of the other doctors' better stories. Now I've pretty much got all that's available. Even with the lower cost in the UK, it's still pretty expensive compared to other classic shows.

ETA: I now have a hankering for the additional special features on the Dotor Who Revisitations DVD sets, particularly for "The Robots of Death" on set 3, which is my favourite story:

1. The Caves of Androzani / The Talons of Weng-Chiang / Doctor Who: The Movie - £15
2. The Seeds of Death / Carnival of Monsters / Resurrection of the Daleks - £16
3. The Tomb of the Cybermen/The Three Doctors/The Robots of Death - £15

The prices are from amazon.co.uk.

 

[jaime]

I've been collecting the available classic DW discs over the past few years and I still have gaps for the generally unloved episodes such as The Gunfighters, Time-flight, The Twin Dilemma, Timelash, Paradise Towers and Delta and the Bannermen. I feel weirdly uncomfortable not having a complete set but, as a truly complete set is impossible anyway and likely to remain so, my wallet will probably thank me for suppressing my completist tendencies. Has anyone else experienced such a feeling with DW or other series and can anyone offer advice on how to resolve this extremely silly psychological drive. Nothing in the universe will be resolved by my owning a few DVDs that I will likely never feel like watching. Where does this urge for completion originate?

I am a great defender of the McCoy era. I was the perfect age and temperament for his Doctor (about eight, but precocious)
To this day I have only seen Time and the Rani and Dragonfire from his first season. And one of those I regret.
Some things are best in novelisation form, and Melanie Bush of Pease Pottage or wherever it is may be one of them. *shrug*
Funnily enough...the same is true of Timelash. Never seen it. Read it.
I think us Target era kids got a better deal than modern media era kids.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I was a cynical 30-something a***hole during the McCoy years so I probably chose to find fault wherever I could rather than judging the show on its merits as entertainment. I likely wasn't anywhere in the target audience demographic in any case. It'll be interesting for me to see how I get on with a rewatch (well, more a first watch as I gave up a few minutes into some stories).

 

[jaime]

I was a cynical 30-something a***hole during the McCoy years so I probably chose to find fault wherever I could rather than judging the show on its merits as entertainment. I likely wasn't anywhere in the target audience demographic in any case. It'll be interesting for me to see how I get on with a rewatch (well, more a first watch as I gave up a few minutes into some stories).

Season 26 is awesomely written, Battlefield is its low point...and even that is only really let down by some bad dialogue (shame) and some production people not reading the script (vr helmeted space suit knights...are not here.) and budget (disco lights) on the other hand, it has some amazing dialogue (no tears, just ashes) and ideas. Otherwise, there’s not a duff one in the lot, especially by the standards of the day (even the cheetah people...) but really it’s a continuing trend from season 25. The thing is, you kind of have to look at the writing, not the execution, because by this point they are running on fumes (silver Nemesis is the only one with McCoy/Aldred that falls down tbh, and if you chop out some of it...it’s got some good ideas in the mix.) and can either look amazing when they have the money and talent (Ghost Light, Greatest Show) or go a bit experiemental and cheap (Happiness Patrol is either a masterpiece of experimentation, or..a bit of a failure. It does have an amazing scene with two snipers though.)
Tbh, it’s these seasons that actually set the template for new who’s successes, through the intervening novel years. But it is the most adult Who will ever get...Ghost Light is so complex but so well written, it teeters into being too clever for its own good, and all of the McCoy years are just dense with concepts that would be difficult in the modern eras fifty minute episodes, let alone broken into the twenty-five minutes with cliff hangers they were working with.
But I guess all of that is a lengthy discussion somewhere, but I think I would honestly challenge anyone who thinks anything in his era is actually bad (my previous disclaimer on season 24 is on record. I have only read the books, so Paradise Towers and Delta and the bannermen are better in my versions xD)

 

[Timewalker]

I am a great defender of the McCoy era. I was the perfect age and temperament for his Doctor (about eight, but precocious)
To this day I have only seen Time and the Rani and Dragonfire from his first season. And one of those I regret.
Some things are best in novelisation form, and Melanie Bush of Pease Pottage or wherever it is may be one of them. *shrug*
Funnily enough...the same is true of Timelash. Never seen it. Read it.
I think us Target era kids got a better deal than modern media era kids.

I am so glad those Target books exist. They were a feast for people like me who had to wait YEARS to watch the first three Doctors, and the earlier seasons of the Fourth (my first introduction to Doctor Who was "Pirate Planet" - a very bad choice for someone not used to Douglas Adams-type humor). And in some cases, they're the only way to know how some of the lost episodes went.

I bought up every second-hand Target novelization I could find, and then badgered the people at the independent bookstore where I bought most of my new books to please order in the rest. They told me that they could only order them in batches of 25, and I told them to go ahead - new Target books back then were $3.95, and this was before we had GST. So I had no problem with this; I said I'd take every one they got in, provided it wasn't a duplicate.

I still have the Target books.

Season 26 is awesomely written, Battlefield is its low point...and even that is only really let down by some bad dialogue (shame) and some production people not reading the script (vr helmeted space suit knights...are not here.) and budget (disco lights) on the other hand, it has some amazing dialogue (no tears, just ashes) and ideas. Otherwise, there’s not a duff one in the lot, especially by the standards of the day (even the cheetah people...) but really it’s a continuing trend from season 25. The thing is, you kind of have to look at the writing, not the execution, because by this point they are running on fumes (silver Nemesis is the only one with McCoy/Aldred that falls down tbh, and if you chop out some of it...it’s got some good ideas in the mix.) and can either look amazing when they have the money and talent (Ghost Light, Greatest Show) or go a bit experiemental and cheap (Happiness Patrol is either a masterpiece of experimentation, or..a bit of a failure. It does have an amazing scene with two snipers though.)
Tbh, it’s these seasons that actually set the template for new who’s successes, through the intervening novel years. But it is the most adult Who will ever get...Ghost Light is so complex but so well written, it teeters into being too clever for its own good, and all of the McCoy years are just dense with concepts that would be difficult in the modern eras fifty minute episodes, let alone broken into the twenty-five minutes with cliff hangers they were working with.
But I guess all of that is a lengthy discussion somewhere, but I think I would honestly challenge anyone who thinks anything in his era is actually bad (my previous disclaimer on season 24 is on record. I have only read the books, so Paradise Towers and Delta and the bannermen are better in my versions xD)

It's funny how some people's dislikes are another person's likes. I loved Battlefield, and the character of Brigadier Winifred Bambera. I liked Silver Nemesis, too; the villain in that one was played by an actress whose previous appearance in a Classic Who story was back in the Hartnell era - in "The Keys to Marinus."

Paradise Towers is a favorite, although parts of it are really stupid. There are a couple of Britcom stars in that one - Richard Briers and the actress who played Daisy in "Keeping Up Appearances".

 

[jaime]

I am so glad those Target books exist. They were a feast for people like me who had to wait YEARS to watch the first three Doctors, and the earlier seasons of the Fourth (my first introduction to Doctor Who was "Pirate Planet" - a very bad choice for someone not used to Douglas Adams-type humor). And in some cases, they're the only way to know how some of the lost episodes went.

I bought up every second-hand Target novelization I could find, and then badgered the people at the independent bookstore where I bought most of my new books to please order in the rest. They told me that they could only order them in batches of 25, and I told them to go ahead - new Target books back then were $3.95, and this was before we had GST. So I had no problem with this; I said I'd take every one they got in, provided it wasn't a duplicate.

I still have the Target books.


It's funny how some people's dislikes are another person's likes. I loved Battlefield, and the character of Brigadier Winifred Bambera. I liked Silver Nemesis, too; the villain in that one was played by an actress whose previous appearance in a Classic Who story was back in the Hartnell era - in "The Keys to Marinus."

Paradise Towers is a favorite, although parts of it are really stupid. There are a couple of Britcom stars in that one - Richard Briers and the actress who played Daisy in "Keeping Up Appearances".

Briers is almost too recognisable to be honest.
I love Battlefield...but unlike Ben Aaronovitch and Angela Bruce, I knew how ‘shame’ works in conversation, rather than just some random bit of exotica Aaronovitch thought would work. It’s really cringeworthy for my ears. On the other hand, I adore the Booooom scene, and loved Ace and Shou Ying unreservedly. Morgaine is possibly the most interesting villain I have ever seen on screen in anything, and the sheer amount of offscreen World building is magnificently done, both for near future England and for the parallel earth. It’s also full of magicked stuff, in a way not seen in Who often, and is quite comfortable with it.

 

[Timewalker]

Briers is almost too recognisable to be honest.

I didn't mind. It was quite a departure from Tom in Good Neighbors. And since then I've seen him do Shakespeare, and enjoyed him in all the different genres.

 

[kirk55555]

When it comes to the 7th Doctor and differing opinions on his stories, I think I'm the only person who considers Delta and the Bannermen his best story by far. If that was the 7th Doctor that had stuck around for the next 2 season, I'd have liked his era a lot more.

 

[jaime]

I didn't mind. It was quite a departure from Tom in Good Neighbors. And since then I've seen him do Shakespeare, and enjoyed him in all the different genres.

Oh yeah, it was a break from cuddly Tom and Barbara (it’s Calle The Good Life here.) but with the costumes etc it does look a bit pantomimey. He’s the physical actor version of the same flaw we get with the Kandyman later...different idea on the page. He’s very good in Shakespeare, same as another odd casting choice for Who...Ken Dodd.

 

[Timewalker]

Oh yeah, it was a break from cuddly Tom and Barbara (it’s Calle The Good Life here.) but with the costumes etc it does look a bit pantomimey. He’s the physical actor version of the same flaw we get with the Kandyman later...different idea on the page. He’s very good in Shakespeare, same as another odd casting choice for Who...Ken Dodd.

In Canada we were able to watch the shows (both Doctor Who and Good Neighbors) because of the American PBS channels that are part of our basic cable packages. The only Shakespeare movie I've seen him in is Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing.

 

[jaime]

In Canada we were able to watch the shows (both Doctor Who and Good Neighbors) because of the American PBS channels that are part of our basic cable packages. The only Shakespeare movie I've seen him in is Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing.

I really like that film. It’s casting is excellent, and a bit mental.

 

[Mr Awe]

Paradise Towers was pretty bad. And, I didn't like Briers in it. WTF did he go so over the top? That didn't work. Loved him in Good Neighbors though.

Greatest Show in the Galaxy is my least favorite story in all of DW. It's worse than both Love & Monsters and Timelash!

I do really like Delta and the Bannerman and Battlefield. Both are fun, interesting stories. Of those two, I give Battlefield the edge. Excellent story for the Brig to return in and the banter with 7 was nice. Liked the new Brig as well.

My favorite McCoy story is Remembrance of the Daleks.

 

[kirk55555]

Greatest Show in the Galaxy is my least favorite story in all of DW. It's worse than both Love & Monsters and Timelash!

I toitally agree. GSinG is my most hated story in the franchise, and I would never watch it again. That one was so bad it really made me angry by just how terrible it was.

 

[Steve Roby]

Greatest Show in the Galaxy is my least favorite story in all of DW. It's worse than both Love & Monsters and Timelash!

To be fair, though, almost everything is worse than Love and Monsters, which is a brilliant bit of Doctor Who.

 

[Mr Awe]

To be fair, though, almost everything is worse than Love and Monsters, which is a brilliant bit of Doctor Who.

I see what you did there . . . and disagree!

 

[kirk55555]

There are a few Doctor Who stories that L&M is better than, like Fear Her, the Zygon episodes from Series 9, the pyramid episodes from series 10, etc, but its still a pretty rancid episode with the most disturbing ending of any single story Doctor Who has ever done.

 

[jaime]

There are a few Doctor Who stories that L&M is better than, like Fear Her, the Zygon episodes from Series 9, the pyramid episodes from series 10, etc, but its still a pretty rancid episode with the most disturbing ending of any single story Doctor Who has ever done.

It’s not so much that it’s disturbing...it’s that it’s also crass. Especially considering that single episode absolutely should have been the most kid friendly in all of who (monster designed by a blue peter winner...as opposed to a monster looking like it was designed by a blue peter winner. We had those in the sixties.) and instead it’s an out-of-formula approach, that absolutely could have worked (and works much better with Wilfs gang just a few years better) better than it did. It’s also the silly ‘leads light’ episode, which must have been one heel of a downer for the winner...he thought he was going to see the Doctor and Rose fight his alien...instead he saw a myriad of guest stars of a type not seen since the JNT era.
There are very few episodes/serials of who that so completely cocked it in the execution, and drove it into the ground (pavement).

 

[kirk55555]

It’s not so much that it’s disturbing...it’s that it’s also crass. Especially considering that single episode absolutely should have been the most kid friendly in all of who (monster designed by a blue peter winner...as opposed to a monster looking like it was designed by a blue peter winner. We had those in the sixties.) and instead it’s an out-of-formula approach, that absolutely could have worked (and works much better with Wilfs gang just a few years better) better than it did. It’s also the silly ‘leads light’ episode, which must have been one heel of a downer for the winner...he thought he was going to see the Doctor and Rose fight his alien...instead he saw a myriad of guest stars of a type not seen since the JNT era.
There are very few episodes/serials of who that so completely cocked it in the execution, and drove it into the ground (pavement).

Yeah, its been awhile since I saw it, but doesn't the episode end implying that Brick woman would be doing...certain things with the remaining guy? So she's stuck in a horrifying existence, but its ok because she'll be performing certain acts with the guy for as long as her head manages to last. The whole thing isn't just bad, its bizarre when you consider it was supposed to be a really, really kiddie episode but ends up being more messed up then an average episode.

 

[jaime]

Yeah, its been awhile since I saw it, but doesn't the episode end implying that Brick woman would be doing...certain things with the remaining guy? So she's stuck in a horrifying existence, but its ok because she'll be performing certain acts with the guy for as long as her head manages to last. The whole thing isn't just bad, its bizarre when you consider it was supposed to be a really, really kiddie episode but ends up being more messed up then an average episode.

It’s borderline misogyny tbh. And basically conversation, staying watching movies and one-way non reciprocated oral sex appears to be the ideal life for the Doctor Who fan. Which is a horrible concept, especially as it’s ‘sex with a rock’. I won’t even get into the confusing idea about how she’s even staying alive etc. It’s like RTD had an odd feeling in 1983 watching the end of the Five Doctors, and it vomited it’s way out here. I also think he’s maybe not as great at grasping human relationships as his job suggests.
Or maybe it’s just a joke about putting your significant other on a pedestal.

 

[Steve Roby]

The very end is a bad joke, yes, but there's so much good stuff before then, not to mention the guest cast (Marc Warren, Shirley Henderson, et al), and the whole gloriously goofy ELO thing (my fave band circa 1978-79). I imagine it did befuddle the kid who created the monster, but he's not the only member of the audience, and it's, well, not that great a monster, really.