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To anyone upset about this movie...

Star Trek merchandise is released under licensing by Paramount with the official Star Trek logo and copyright. Therefore it is Star Trek merchandise, and yes, Star Trek merchandise is selling very well.

I'm not talking about Star Trek in general I'm referring to Star Trek, the sereies created by Gene Roddenberry. I haven't seen any merchandise for this series in a long time.

What makes you think it will be replaced in the next few years?

Because new people will be incharge of Star Trek.

The indication from this movie seems to show marketability to stay on course as it is, which is what I believe they will do, as a Star Trek XII is an almost certainty at this point.


No, I'm afraid it does not. There have been canon contradictions in Star Trek in the past.

Yep and usually a little figuring can reason these apparent contradictions out.

The new canon generally overrides old canon as the story progresses and the timeline develops.

Hmm. Strange since all of my Star Trek Dvds contain the same content they did before. If new canon overrides old canon then these would be overridden.

For example, in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", it is stated on a tombstone that James Kirk's middle initial is "R". In a later episode of that same series, it is established that James Kirk's middle initial is "T". The accepted canon is James T. Kirk.

The tombstone was generated by Gary Mitchel. Perhaps Gary thought Kirk's middle name was R. Or possibly it was short for a nickname Gary had for Kirk. Maybe Kirk had his middle name legally changed.

That being said, this movie does not violate canon, as it takes place in an alternatate universe, something explicitly stated.

I have not yet read any quote from the movie that explicitly stated it is an alternate timeline. Personally i think the alternate timeline theory is just an excuse to let anyone do whatever they want with no regard for what Star Trek actually is. If it is an alternative timeline then it should not be focused on and only visited occasionally like the Mirror universe.
 
Well, you could try asking me, I could provide you with the viewpoint you say you're unable to find.

What's the point, I would argue, of a series that never actually ages and expands and grows, but simply resets and contracts regularly? Kirk and Spock were great characters, but so was Picard, and Sisko, and heck even the Doctor and Tuvok had their moments. Isn't there more to this franchise, this whole, great fictional universe, than six men and one woman flying the same ship for ever and ever, amen?
Thank you for the viewpoint. :D

You do not live forever. Does that make your life meaningless? I tend to disagree. Resetting the Star Trek universe every few decades does not make the evolutions the characters go to any less intriguing. It does not make the big questions of the stories any less important. Even more so; you can see the zeitgeist of different people at work as each series has different questions and different answers.

I'm not suggesting only reviving Kirk and Co; I'm sure Picard, Sisko and Janeway each get their chances as well.

But for every 300 and Valkyrie, there's a movie that's set right here, right now, and manages to tell a story without being somehow strangled by the thousands of years of human history that've existed. And you know how they do that? The same way any of us get through our days; by not actually having much of anything to do with the past. Same thing as would happen in 99.9-repeating percent of Star Trek stories; there's no reason they'd be strangled by canon, because they wouldn't actually have anything to do with it. Canon's the history of the setting, and sometimes it comes up, like quoting Shakespeare in a romcom or referencing the Nazis in an Oscar contender, but most of the time the story at hand has nothing whatsoever to do, explicitly, with the ultra-majority of everything that has ever come before it.

I can agree with that. But the thing about Science Fiction is that it's made up. As such, the history is not set in stone. This makes for continuity errors, since situations crop up where history contradicts itself. Allow enough errors to build up over time, and you have one huge pile of facts where no one is certain what really happened. You don't have that with our history; while the victors were the ones who wrote it (and not necessarily true), we do agree on most points. Not much continuity errors there.

I'm not saying the regular audience needs to buy the novels. What I'm saying is, those novels, and the things the writers have done to the universe, show that there's no inherent aspect of canon that prevents new and exciting things from happening. VOY and ENT weren't boring because of too much canon, they were boring because lazy writers churned out weak storylines about pointlessly agressive aliens and anomalies of the week. Canon simply doesn't enter into it.
Why were they boring? Because everytime they tried to do something exciting, people put them against the wall for "daring to contradict canon". They were bound by what has come before (or after, however you want to call it), so they couldn't actually do anything. All they could do was start the Romulan war without actually seeing their faces, and start the Federation. Something like that has already been done; Andromeda -- and that didn't end well when they try to make it more exciting. What would you have them do then? Make contact with new races we already know? Explore new systems we've already seen? Create battles where our homeworld was in danger even though you knew it never really was? Doesn't sound terribly inviting to me. Doesn't mean the writers were lazy.

Also: A series set further in the future then VOY would also not have worked. We already have transporters, quantum slipstream and what else; if the technology is so advanced as to almost be magic, what would be left? No danger, that's for sure. You can't simply make the antagonist bigger and badder each time, you know. And without danger to the characters, no urge to evolve. That would make a boring show.
 
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Even if you're a die hard fan you have to be able to admit that it was well filmed, well directed, and in general a very fun to watch movie.

I can't say that at all because I don't think it's true. Taking away all of my Trekkie prejudices, I think that the movie doesn't even hold up well as a stand alone action film. Sure, it has some excellent production design & special effects but none of it is used in service to a good story or even an exciting story. For all of the flack that the Star Wars prequels endured, for all of the hopelessly stilted dialogue that they subjected the audience to, they at least provided some exciting, iconic fight scenes. The new Star Trek movie can't even manage that.
 
Star Trek merchandise is released under licensing by Paramount with the official Star Trek logo and copyright. Therefore it is Star Trek merchandise, and yes, Star Trek merchandise is selling very well.
I'm not talking about Star Trek in general I'm referring to Star Trek, the sereies created by Gene Roddenberry. I haven't seen any merchandise for this series in a long time.

What makes you think it will be replaced in the next few years?
Because new people will be incharge of Star Trek.






Yep and usually a little figuring can reason these apparent contradictions out.



Hmm. Strange since all of my Star Trek Dvds contain the same content they did before. If new canon overrides old canon then these would be overridden.

For example, in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", it is stated on a tombstone that James Kirk's middle initial is "R". In a later episode of that same series, it is established that James Kirk's middle initial is "T". The accepted canon is James T. Kirk.
The tombstone was generated by Gary Mitchel. Perhaps Gary thought Kirk's middle name was R. Or possibly it was short for a nickname Gary had for Kirk. Maybe Kirk had his middle name legally changed.

That being said, this movie does not violate canon, as it takes place in an alternatate universe, something explicitly stated.
I have not yet read any quote from the movie that explicitly stated it is an alternate timeline. Personally i think the alternate timeline theory is just an excuse to let anyone do whatever they want with no regard for what Star Trek actually is. If it is an alternative timeline then it should not be focused on and only visited occasionally like the Mirror universe.

It is mentioned in the movie, and I believe Robert Orci also states as much. As for it being an excuse, yes, it is no longer constrained by the canon that choked the life out of the Star Trek universe before J.J. came along to restore life to it. As for whether it should be visited occasionally, that is simply your opinion.

J.
 
I'm not saying the regular audience needs to buy the novels. What I'm saying is, those novels, and the things the writers have done to the universe, show that there's no inherent aspect of canon that prevents new and exciting things from happening. VOY and ENT weren't boring because of too much canon, they were boring because lazy writers churned out weak storylines about pointlessly agressive aliens and anomalies of the week. Canon simply doesn't enter into it.
Why were they boring? Because everytime they tried to do something exciting, people put them against the wall for "daring to contradict canon". They were bound by what has come before (or after, however you want to call it), so they couldn't actually do anything.

While you may have an argument there with Enterprise, that certainly does not in any way explain why Voyager was such a weak, anemic series. Nor does it explain why DS9 was such a great series. (Or did the tipping point of when continuity became an "unbearable burden" occur sometime shortly after DS9 ended?)
 
You do not live forever. Does that make your life meaningless? I tend to disagree. Resetting the Star Trek universe every few decades does not make the evolutions the characters go to any less intriguing. It does not make the big questions of the stories any less important. Even more so; you can see the zeitgeist of different people at work as each series has different questions and different answers.

I'm not suggesting only reviving Kirk and Co; I'm sure Picard, Sisko and Janeway each get their chances as well.

Well, that's even sillier, then. So rather than creating new characters to match the continually-changing 'zeitgeist', we're just going to keep rehashing the same old ones?

Really, though, this just ties in what what I feel is the fundamental fact you are missing; that Star Trek is entirely capable of growing and expanding and reflecting changing realities without having to go constantly back to the beginning. Why should we go from Kirk to Picard to Sisko to Janeway and then back to Kirk? Why not a captain beyond Janeway? And then one beyond that one? To borrow from your gardening examples earlier, why not let the annuals that are Star Trek grow again and again, rather than tearing them out and planting a whole new set each season?

I can agree with that. But the thing about Science Fiction is that it's made up. As such, the history is not set in stone. This makes for continuity errors, since situations crop up where history contradicts itself. Allow enough errors to build up over time, and you have one huge pile of facts where no one is certain what really happened. You don't have that with our history; while the victors were the ones who wrote it (and not necessarily true), we do agree on most points. Not much continuity errors there.

Really? Did the Holocaust happen? Did aliens build the Pyramids? Was there ever an Atlantis? Did Bill and Hillary Clinton kill people and decorate Christmas trees with condoms full of drugs? I'm sure you'd give the same answers to these as most would, but there are people, in some cases large numbers of people, who don't actually believe in the 'established continuity' of the human race.

Anyway, that's beside the point. It's not that hard to keep continuity errors in fiction to the same incredibly minor level as someone in the real world claiming that Columbus was the first to discover the New World, or that Canada beat America in the War of 1812. Heck, five minutes to check a date or a reference on Memory Alpha would do it. Nerds are more than happy to collate all the little details from works that they love, and thanks to the internet there's no reason whatsoever that the creators can't have access to a relatively professional history text for a fictional universe.

Why were they boring? Because everytime they tried to do something exciting, people put them against the wall for "daring to contradict canon". They were bound by what has come before (or after, however you want to call it), so they couldn't actually do anything. All they could do was start the Romulan war without actually seeing their faces, and start the Federation. Something like that has already been done; Andromeda -- and that didn't end well when they try to make it more exciting. What would you have them do then? Make contact with new races we already know? Explore new systems we've already seen? Create battles where our homeworld was in danger even though you knew it never really was? Doesn't sound terribly inviting to me. Doesn't mean the writers were lazy.

No, I would have had them not bother with Enterprise in the first place, and keep going forwards. ENT was a silly idea to begin with; prequels should be limited, something like a movie or a book, because at anything much longer than that you run out of options. So, yes, canon arguably hamstrung that, but that was an essential problem of the choice itself. Complaining that canon stopped ENT from doing bold new things is like complaining that history kept Band of Brothers from having the soldiers fight the Viet Cong in M1A1 tanks. That's no reason to throw out the history of WWII, now is it?

And as far as VOY goes, it does in fact mean that the writers were lazy. Voyager was on the far side of the galaxy, dealing for the most part with things that had absolutely never been so much as hinted at before. And what did they come up with? The kind of 'encounter of the week' stories that were getting bland and predictable when TNG was wrapping up it's run. VOY could have been an awesome series, full of action and adventure, romance and comedy. Heck, it could even have had the titular ship come home once DS9 was done and have adventures in the Alpha Quadrant where things evolved and changed, in radical ways. But it wasn't, and it didn't, and the fault lies entirely at the feet of tired, lazy writers who simply didn't have it in them to do anything really new and challenging, and a licensing company that didn't actually want them to do anything but the same old, same old.
 
DiSiLLUSiON;2941059 While you may have an argument there with [I said:
Enterprise,[/I] that certainly does not in any way explain why Voyager was such a weak, anemic series. Nor does it explain why DS9 was such a great series. (Or did the tipping point of when continuity became an "unbearable burden" occur sometime shortly after DS9 ended?)

The idea that the "canon" somehow destroyed the series is just wrong. Voyager didn't have to abide by ANYTHING. It was just a weak series with weak characters who did uninteresting things. The last two Next-Gen movies weren't weak because of cannon, they were weak because the situations in them had no sense of gravity. Many of the best Trek movies (2, 4, FC) dealt with the imminent destruction of Earth (or in Khan's case, the acquiring of a weapon that could destroy Earth). In the last two next-gen movies, yeah the Enterprise was in danger, but did anyone really care about the Baku in Insurrection?

The problem with Trek wasn't the history of Trek, it was bad storytelling. The series could have been reinvigorated through good storytelling. This whole idea that the only way to make Trek interesting again was to throw everything away is just ridiculous.
 
Why were they boring? Because everytime they tried to do something exciting, people put them against the wall for "daring to contradict canon". They were bound by what has come before (or after, however you want to call it), so they couldn't actually do anything.[/quote]

(Not about VOY but Enterprise) Becasue they WERE violating canon. If it hadn't it wouldn't have gotten all the complaints. It could have done lots of fun and exciting things if it actually followed what was establish.


All they could do was start the Romulan war without actually seeing their faces, and start the Federation.

And they screwed that up. The problem isn;t in the canon it's in the writers.

Something like that has already been done; Andromeda -- and that didn't end well when they try to make it more exciting. What would you have them do then?

Sorry I've never seen Andromeda.

Make contact with new races we already know?

Sure and meet new species. What about filing in the exciting cultures of rarely seen species.

Explore new systems we've already seen?

Sure When a crew goes to aplanet think of how little of a planet's surface they actually visit. What about exploring a future Earth that woudl be something amazing to see how the world works in the future.

Create battles where our homeworld was in danger even though you knew it never really was? Doesn't sound terribly inviting to me. Doesn't mean the writers were lazy.

Except that they did it the wrong way.

Also: A series set further in the future then VOY would also not have worked. We already have transporters, quantum slipstream and what else; if the technology is so advanced as to almost be magic, what would be left?

That's why stories should be based on characters not technobabble. Or transwarp beaming.

No danger, that's for sure. You can't simply make the antagonist bigger and badder each time, you know. And without danger to the characters, no urge to evolve. That would make a boring show.

What about Captain April? Do you know what happens to him? What about Number 1? There's lots of stories to be told without starting over.
 
While you may have an argument there with Enterprise, that certainly does not in any way explain why Voyager was such a weak, anemic series. Nor does it explain why DS9 was such a great series. (Or did the tipping point of when continuity became an "unbearable burden" occur sometime shortly after DS9 ended?)

As I edited in later, a series set further in the future then VOY would also not have worked.

We already have transporters, quantum slipstream and what else; it's the same problem that the Stargate franchise now struggles with. If the technology is so advanced as to almost be magic, what would be left? No danger, that's for sure. You can't simply make the antagonist bigger and badder each time, you know; you'll end up with godlike beings who eventually would be dumbed down in order to defeat them.

And without danger to the characters, no urge to evolve. That would make a boring show. A new TNG set in the far future would also not have worked. Either we've seen or heard everything already (most episodes of every series was a rehash of an earlier one), or things would be so unfathomable as to alienate any 'regular' viewer the series would have left.

The continuity became an unbearable burden at the point where shows in the future wouldn't have worked, shows in the past didn't work and the time in between was already claimed.

Really, though, this just ties in what what I feel is the fundamental fact you are missing; that Star Trek is entirely capable of growing and expanding and reflecting changing realities without having to go constantly back to the beginning. Why should we go from Kirk to Picard to Sisko to Janeway and then back to Kirk? Why not a captain beyond Janeway? And then one beyond that one? To borrow from your gardening examples earlier, why not let the annuals that are Star Trek grow again and again, rather than tearing them out and planting a whole new set each season?
As I said before, because of the continuity. There are lots of purists who seem to regard that continuity as holy. Therefore, you'll have to advance the technology as well; even up to a point where it all comes unraveled.

Stargate has the same problems. Technology better then most enemies, so the galaxy spanning Goa'uld empire is defeated. Then, you need a bigger baddy: enter the godlike Ori. And better technology (Ancient and Asgard stuff) and better allies (ascended beings) to defeat them. There's not much beyond godlike beings you can get.

Even if you do not focus on the technology for a moment, you'll have to admit that most episodes of most series have been rehashes of earlier episodes. Only, with the added continuity, people could not 'get into' the series anymore because it was assumed they 'knew stuff'. Which they didn't. As such, the number of viewers dwindled until it was unprofitable to continue, essentially declaring Star Trek dead.

Anyway, that's beside the point. It's not that hard to keep continuity errors in fiction to the same incredibly minor level as someone in the real world claiming that Columbus was the first to discover the New World, or that Canada beat America in the War of 1812. Heck, five minutes to check a date or a reference on Memory Alpha would do it. Nerds are more than happy to collate all the little details from works that they love, and thanks to the internet there's no reason whatsoever that the creators can't have access to a relatively professional history text for a fictional universe.
Yes, but the continuity errors had already exploded into a major level. And the crosschecking isn't that simple. For a single fact, perhaps. But all facts needed in an episode? Most writers aren't Trek addicts; they are screenwriters, they do that for a job. Not only for Star Trek, but for a boatload of series. They can't afford to waste all their time looking up silly little facts, they need that time to be creative.

And as far as VOY goes, it does in fact mean that the writers were lazy. Voyager was on the far side of the galaxy, dealing for the most part with things that had absolutely never been so much as hinted at before. And what did they come up with? The kind of 'encounter of the week' stories that were getting bland and predictable when TNG was wrapping up it's run. VOY could have been an awesome series, full of action and adventure, romance and comedy. Heck, it could even have had the titular ship come home once DS9 was done and have adventures in the Alpha Quadrant where things evolved and changed, in radical ways. But it wasn't, and it didn't, and the fault lies entirely at the feet of tired, lazy writers who simply didn't have it in them to do anything really new and challenging, and a licensing company that didn't actually want them to do anything but the same old, same old.
VOY wasn't, because people were used to a certain continuity; also in the level of writing. You don't simply blow up a planet. You don't simply let Voyager be destroyed, letting the survivors evolve. The hardcore viewers don't expect that sort of thing. If they did, it would be wonderful. And if they did, fans would be breathing down their neck claiming for revenge faster then a speeding bullet. "Year of Hell" was about as far as they could go; provided they had the reset button handy. And it was a shame, I agree with you on that.

Star Trek had a certain image, and in order to retain the small amount of following it had left, it could not change that. The fact that this reboot has changed all that is all the more astonishing.

That's why stories should be based on characters not technobabble. Or transwarp beaming.
Here you hit the nail on the head. Stories should not be based on technobabble.

But because the technology had become so integrated into the Star Trek universe, people expected solutions like "just inverse the polaron-magneto-coupling to extrude the planarized-subspace-rift". Or even something simple like "it seems they're in danger. Beaming them out now". Because if they didn't, people would complain why they didn't simply beam the characters out of the nasty situation they were in. So the writers tried to explain why beaming didn't work with lots of technobabble to satisfy those viewers. And then there's the technobabble again. It's simply what Star Trek had become.

Star Trek had become a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for the writers. For people had already seen someone beam out of a cave. Logic suggest they can do so again. So they had to make up lots of technobabble reasons in order for stories to work. And that was a shame.
 
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Hmm. Strange since all of my Star Trek Dvds contain the same content they did before. If new canon overrides old canon then these would be overridden.
so if they do ever happen to create what you would consider Authentic Star Trek that overrides canon, your dvd collection would magically be erased?

Star Trek is now an alternate reality. Everything we love still happened, and timeline-wise will still happen. The only difference is that this movie is free of 700+ episodes and 10 movies worth of continuity since it's an alternate reality.

STXI is just like the mirror universe in terms of continuity. Things aren't all reversed and evil like the MU, but things are different nonetheless.

Accept it as something separate.


also I certainly hope you're not planning anything drastic . . .
 
Star Trek is about Kirk and Spock.
I wholly and respectfully disagree. Star Trek is not about Kirk and Spock.

However, Kirk and Spock are the most well-known characters of Star Trek. A very logical choice for the movie, if they wanted to draw as many regular viewers in as possible, indeed.
 
VOY wasn't, because people were used to a certain continuity; also in the level of writing. You don't simply blow up a planet. You don't simply let Voyager be destroyed, letting the survivors evolve.

That has absolutely nothing to do with continuity. You think they're going to kill off Spock, or blow up the Enterprise now that they've rebooted Star Trek? No. The reason they don't do huge changes like that is because the people who own the license don't actually like huge changes. There's nothing whatsoever in the canon that would have prevented them from destroying Voyager and having the crew move to another ship; what there is, however, is the realities of the business model of a long-running televisoin series, any long running television series.

I have to say, I feel like you're being quite disingenuous with the way you define continuity and canon. Having a history doesn't stop a show or a movie from coming up with bold new ideas, and VOY's weakness as a story had nothing to do with such issues. The franchise owners got lazy and let the writers get lazier. If JJ Abrams had taken the exact same story, updated the dates, changed the names and characters a bit and set it a generation after VOY, there's no reason whatsoever that Star Trek: The Next Next Generation wouldn't have done just as well as Star Trek, canon reboot or no canon reboot.
 
Since the movie came out, I've been lurking around here every so often because I'm the lucky college student out on summer break who doesn't start working until midweek. Today, I decided to put in my two cents.


Star Trek merchandise is released under licensing by Paramount with the official Star Trek logo and copyright. Therefore it is Star Trek merchandise, and yes, Star Trek merchandise is selling very well.
I'm not talking about Star Trek in general I'm referring to Star Trek, the sereies created by Gene Roddenberry. I haven't seen any merchandise for this series in a long time.

What makes you think it will be replaced in the next few years?
Because new people will be incharge of Star Trek.






Yep and usually a little figuring can reason these apparent contradictions out.



Hmm. Strange since all of my Star Trek Dvds contain the same content they did before. If new canon overrides old canon then these would be overridden.

For example, in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", it is stated on a tombstone that James Kirk's middle initial is "R". In a later episode of that same series, it is established that James Kirk's middle initial is "T". The accepted canon is James T. Kirk.
The tombstone was generated by Gary Mitchel. Perhaps Gary thought Kirk's middle name was R. Or possibly it was short for a nickname Gary had for Kirk. Maybe Kirk had his middle name legally changed.

That being said, this movie does not violate canon, as it takes place in an alternatate universe, something explicitly stated.
I have not yet read any quote from the movie that explicitly stated it is an alternate timeline. Personally i think the alternate timeline theory is just an excuse to let anyone do whatever they want with no regard for what Star Trek actually is. If it is an alternative timeline then it should not be focused on and only visited occasionally like the Mirror universe.


This seems a bit hypocritical. How can you make excuses for one thing, and then reject another when they both stem from the same basic principle?

You mention that you have never read, or seen anything explicitly stating that this new movie takes place in an alternate universe/timeline/whatever you want to call it. I'm willing to wager that you also haven't seen anything that will back up what you're saying about the middle name gaffe. How can you back up one of two glaringly obvious canon violations, and reject the other on the same grounds you are trying to validate the first? That doesn't make any sense.

Personally, I think the "gary mitchell nickname" theory and others are just excuses to let anyone do whatever they want with no regard for what Star Trek actually is. An old television show that has been remade twice, and generated four spin-offs.

But I digress.

Tell me, does this mean you are willing to accept some kinds of retconning (James R -> James T.), but not others? (alternate timeline, Trek XI) If this is the case, then how do you decide what is acceptable, and what isn't? How does anyone?

You can't. Trekkies have shown their propensity to disagree with one another since it's inception. TPTB call the shots. Some people love the choices they make, some don't. Most don't care because there are more important things in life to worry about.

That's why stories should be based on characters not technobabble. Or transwarp beaming.
Your premise is flawed. The transwarp beaming was a minor plot device. It wasn't the plot, nor even all that integral to the story. I'm not sure what you were watching, but the movie I saw told the story of this ships crew and captain. Transwarp beaming was a plot device that's total presence in the movie was about 2 minutes (I'm being pretty generous here), and it was used to move characters from point A to point B. Sure, the writers could have come up with another way to get them aboard the enterprise, but that would just divert the plot of the movie for XX amount of time, and nothing would be added to the overall story. In terms of the total movie, the presence of transwarp beaming takes up at most about 1.6% of the total film. You really need to look over your presumption that the plot of this film was technobabble, and not character driven.

And they screwed that up. The problem isn;t in the canon it's in the writers.
I have to disagree with you on this one too. The problem isn't in the canon or the writers, it's in the fans.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796366/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_trek_11/
etc. etc.

Obviously, the movie is a critical and financial access. So how did the writers fail if movie audiences, critics, AND a majority of fans (indicated by the forum poll) enjoyed the film? The general consensus is positive. The only negative connotations I've seen so far have been from disgruntled fans declaring how insulting this movie is to them.

Trek XI is a reboot. Deal with it.

I don't understand why some people need a security blanket when it comes to this whole prime/alternate universe thing. Why is it so important that the new movie meticulously regurgitates previous trek lore?

I can't think of a single, valid, objective reason why all trek lore needs to be religiously followed, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this one. (Seriously, I got nothing, and I think wasting anymore time on such a thing is being hypocritical of myself, so I will leave it at that)

Why watch or read something new if you know exactly how its going to play out. Doesn't that seem like a huge waste of time? (I'm not saying rewatching dvds or tv shows is a waste of time, but I think remaking something only to have it be a carbon copy is a big waste of time)
 
The more senseless over done out right fake cheer leading about this movie is making people sick. Even those that like and enjoyed the movie. We all GET the picture. No pun intended,

Want to discuss the actual movie fine...............
 
Star Trek is about Kirk and Spock.
I wholly and respectfully disagree. Star Trek is not about Kirk and Spock.

However, Kirk and Spock are the most well-known characters of Star Trek. A very logical choice for the movie, if they wanted to draw as many regular viewers in as possible, indeed.

Star Trek is all about the original series. :techman: Not about it's boring bunch of knock offs, which drowned their stories and characters in Treknobabble, and eventually bled the franchise to its near death. TNG lasted 2 seasons beyond what it should have, and gone out with quality not quantity.

The general public doesn't know TNG, it never got into the pop culture like the original did. Everyone knows Kirk, Spock, and Beam me up Scotty, and warp drive. Picard, Data, Riker will get no response.

Going with the originals was a good way to reboot the franchise.

-Chris
 
The general public doesn't know TNG, it never got into the pop culture like the original did. Everyone knows Kirk, Spock, and Beam me up Scotty, and warp drive. Picard, Data, Riker will get no response.

I think you're actually quite wrong, there. I'd imagine that roughly the same proporition of a general audience would recognise Picard, Data and Worf (though, yes, not Riker) as would recognise Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Heck, when casting for the first X-Men movie, the director made a joke about needing 'a bald actor who looks good sitting down', so of course they went with Patrick Stewart; what, you think that's a reference to his performance in I, Claudius? :p
 
The general public doesn't know TNG, it never got into the pop culture like the original did. Everyone knows Kirk, Spock, and Beam me up Scotty, and warp drive. Picard, Data, Riker will get no response.

I think you're actually quite wrong, there. I'd imagine that roughly the same proporition of a general audience would recognise Picard, Data and Worf (though, yes, not Riker) as would recognise Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Heck, when casting for the first X-Men movie, the director made a joke about needing 'a bald actor who looks good sitting down', so of course they went with Patrick Stewart; what, you think that's a reference to his performance in I, Claudius? :p


I agree. I'm 26 and I didn't really have the option for watching TOS while growing up. TNG, however, was on all the time. My mother watched it all the time. I could tell the difference between the Romulan and Klingon ships at the age of....I believe I was six...because we had the ornaments on the christmas tree. TNG is much more accessible for a lot of the new, and at least partially younger, audience.
 
You know, of all the fandom groups I've been involved with, Star Trek fans have been, by far, the most inflexible. It's shocking to see the amount of negativity and resistance to anything other than what one person sees as THEIR Star Trek.

I can't believe how so many of you think in absolutes. The Star Trek you grew up with, have watched and known and loved for so many years, STILL EXISTS!!! It's still there! This new movie is set in an alternate timeline; you know, like that Mirror Universe that everyone digs so much! How can that be so willingly accepted when this is so quickly dismissed? The fact that this is an alternate reality was firmly established well before the movie came out and was explicitly stated in the movie itself. And, why was it done this way? To compensate for all the canonistas who would be chasing J.J. Abrams with a torch in one hand and their Star Trek Encyclopedias in the other, chanting, "RESPECT THE CANON!" Wow! Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't! I wouldn't want to be J.J. Abrams for all the money in the world right now, considering the complete lack of respect he's getting from people like these.

What really chaps my hide about all this negativity is that it completely overlooks the fact that because of this movie, there's been a renewed interest in classic Trek. Have any of you noticed the amount of merchandise and fan awareness that's appeared in regards to the Original Series since this movie was announced? I certainly wasn't seeing special editions of Scene It?, 20Q and Monopoly or action figures featuring the original crew before that. I've seen the movie three times, and I've made the effort to talk to people about it, and the ones I've talked to that were never fans of Star Trek before now say they want to watch TOS to see where it all started. Yet we have people here that want to sound the death knell for Star Trek because this movie isn't THEIR Star Trek. Mind you, it's doubtful that we'll see any more movies or television series that focus on the Roddenberry/Berman Trek, because those avenues have been explored and NEARLY (notice I said NEARLY, not completely) exhausted. Could another movie or television show be made in that 'verse and be successful? Sure, if handled by the right people. Will it be? Not likely, because past performance has left a sour taste in Paramount's mouth.

To those who'd dismiss my support of Abrams' Trek as cheerleading for the movie, I'd suggest you reject the notion. I don't need to do any cheerleading for it; it seems to be doing just fine by itself. And since I seem to be one of the few that can find it in himself to accept this new Star Trek while still realizing that the Star Trek we've known up to this month STILL EXISTS, I've got no reason to choose one over the other. I'm a fan. I don't need to pick and choose. Star Trek is Star Trek to me, whether it's Shatner's Kirk or Pine's Kirk sitting in the center seat.
 
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