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To anyone upset about this movie...

Star Trek does move on, and it grows. It adapts.

Ah, but it neither grew nor adapted; it shrank and retreated.

I'm not even trying to be a dick about this. That is literally what the new Trek movie did. It shrank the canon, by chucking out everything but Enterprise, replacing twenty-one seasons and tons of books with a single two hour film. And it retreated back to the 60's version of Star Trek, rather than trying to do something new and expanding the Star Trek universe in a different direction. To its credit, this has apparently been a wise strategy, and from a business perspective seems to be a sensible investment. But please, let's not going around claiming that re-doing a forty year old television show is growth.
 
This is what a lot of the fans of the new movie don't seem to get about those of us who aren't. Popularity is not intrinsically good. I don't care that Star Trek is more popular now, because to me, it only got that way by tossing out all the things that I actually liked, and replacing them with things that I don't.

Exactly. What is the point of "popularity" if all it does is deliver material that has none of the elements of the material you originally enjoyed?

Again, it wasn't necessary to flush Trek down the toilet to make it popular again. That was just the quickest and easiest route to take. There were an infinite number of stories to be told that wouldn't have completely thrown out the existing Trek universe. The new casting was great, and would have been awesome with any number of these stories. But instead, they went the quick and dirty route and just threw everything away because they couldn't be bothered to worry about anything that had happened before.
 
Personaly I dont expect NuTrek to last too long. Give it some time and this whole reboot thing will hopefully be forgotten.

There are some original Battlestar Galactica fans I'd like you to meet.

As one of those Original BSG fans who thought the New one sucked yet did like some of the SFX I say this. B&B brought us BermanTrek it flopped. Now the Maker of that hit Monster flick Cloverflop brings us AbramsTrekWars.

Ok First off the Crew Fine it was pretty good casting. However Considering the size of the Corridors, Bridge, Massive Engineering, & other Very large locations this Enterprise HAS to be the size of 1701 E if not bigger. Therefore Abrams "E" would be the Size of Babylon 5 station.
The Bridge is WAY to high tech & Massive. Plus why are there WINDOWS on the bridge?

No this is NOT the Enterprise or at least NOT a Constitution Class.

That said this IS an Alternate Universe. If Abrams wants to make us all one big happy family again he will find a way to Bring William Shatner into the next movie. Trelaine & Q perhaps? Again Kill Both Shatner/Kirk & the New Enterprise & Have Pine/Kirk on the True Enterprise with the timeline fixed?
However I don't see Abrams as that intellegent.

I believe there is room for Two Trek Universes runing at the same time. I bet a True Roddenberry Trek vs AbramsTrek would be.. interesting. Definatly profitable for Paramount.

There is so much to the Classic Abrams could have brought to the table but
sadly he really "Dosen't get Star Trek" & it showed.
 
You guys are making me sad. Fake Trek? Even if you don't like it, it's the Trek now. It exists.

Just having the name Star Trek doesn't make something Star Trek. Enterprise added Star Trek to it's name and that didn't make it Star Trek.

Just because you don't like you can't just close your eyes and make it go away.

You're right I'm not going to close my eyes and make it go away. I'm going to take action and make it go away.

I would think that fans of Trek would be exicted that new fans are being introduced to something they know and love. Maybe you don't like the new movie, but if it gets people like me to start watching the original movies, and the original series, then isn't it worth a little bit of annoyance on your part, for the greater good?

It would be, exceopt they have to get through this garbage to get there. Wouldn't it have been better if Fake Trek had taken place in the real Star Trek story. Just becuase they could have made the Enterprise look like that seen in Star Trek doesn't mean the average viewing audience would have hated it.

J.Allen said:
This movie is a revival, as we're seeing at the box office and the uptick in TOS merchandise selling.

Do they even still make Star Trek merchandise? Or is it all Fake Trek merchandise.

People are becoming interested in Star Trek again. It is breathing new life into the body of work. You don't like it?

I would like it if they didn't have to go through this abomination in order to be interested in Star Trek. It's like when a character needlessly dies. They needlessly made this movie horrible. It would have had the exact same success if they had made it properly with the right designs, crew, and writing. It's just a waste of a movie, since we're just going to have to make another one to replace it in a few years.

That's okay, but it is here, it is Star Trek, and it is staying. It is now established canon.

No it's not. It blatently contradicts what has been established, that puts it outside of canon.
 
Ok First off the Crew Fine it was pretty good casting. However Considering the size of the Corridors, Bridge, Massive Engineering, & other Very large locations this Enterprise HAS to be the size of 1701 E if not bigger. Therefore Abrams "E" would be the Size of Babylon 5 station.
The Bridge is WAY to high tech & Massive. Plus why are there WINDOWS on the bridge?

No this is NOT the Enterprise or at least NOT a Constitution Class.

That said this IS an Alternate Universe. If Abrams wants to make us all one big happy family again he will find a way to Bring William Shatner into the next movie. Trelaine & Q perhaps? Again Kill Both Shatner/Kirk & the New Enterprise & Have Pine/Kirk on the True Enterprise with the timeline fixed?
However I don't see Abrams as that intellegent.

There is so much to the Classic Abrams could have brought to the table but
sadly he really "Dosen't get Star Trek" & it showed.
There seems to be no difference between universes. It's not just some Star Trek fans that dislike anything new and fresh and are too stubborn to accept change, but fans from any fandom.
 
I would like it if they didn't have to go through this abomination in order to be interested in Star Trek. It's like when a character needlessly dies. They needlessly made this movie horrible. It would have had the exact same success if they had made it properly with the right designs, crew, and writing. It's just a waste of a movie, since we're just going to have to make another one to replace it in a few years.

That's your opinion. And since I disagree with you, I'm going to just throw my hands up and walk away. I've met die hards before, and I know there's no arguing. But I think you're being short sighted. And you're going to be very disappointed when this doesn't go down in flames as you hope.
 
Star Trek does move on, and it grows. It adapts.

Ah, but it neither grew nor adapted; it shrank and retreated.

I'm not even trying to be a dick about this. That is literally what the new Trek movie did. It shrank the canon, by chucking out everything but Enterprise, replacing twenty-one seasons and tons of books with a single two hour film. And it retreated back to the 60's version of Star Trek, rather than trying to do something new and expanding the Star Trek universe in a different direction. To its credit, this has apparently been a wise strategy, and from a business perspective seems to be a sensible investment. But please, let's not going around claiming that re-doing a forty year old television show is growth.
Ah, but for a flower to grow, the weeds have to be destroyed, first. By cleaning the slate, there are so many intriguing and fascinating possibilities that wouldn't be there otherwise. Now the universe can truly grow and adapt, which it couldn't when all that continuity was bogging it down.
 
I would like it if they didn't have to go through this abomination in order to be interested in Star Trek. It's like when a character needlessly dies. They needlessly made this movie horrible. It would have had the exact same success if they had made it properly with the right designs, crew, and writing. It's just a waste of a movie, since we're just going to have to make another one to replace it in a few years.
That's your opinion. And since I disagree with you, I'm going to just throw my hands up and walk away. I've met die hards before, and I know there's no arguing. But I think you're being short sighted. And you're going to be very disappointed when this doesn't go down in flames as you hope.

No, it won't go down in flames, there is no evidence that would allow anyone to come to that conclusion. I just think there are some valid concerns regarding the degeneration of Trek...
 
Star Trek does move on, and it grows. It adapts.

Ah, but it neither grew nor adapted; it shrank and retreated.

And it retreated back to the 60's version of Star Trek,

WRONG. NOTHING in Abrams Trek is 60's version. He took Characters & the title Then tried to make it HIS original idea.

What else is there if not the characters and the title? It's true, he didn't literally go back to the 60's Star Trek; he didn't have McCoy carry around a salt shaker, or shot the space scenes with models, or have clearly styrofoam boulders lying around. But those are no more '60's Star Trek' than the commercials that aired during the show, or the quality of the camera used to record the images.

Abrams took the original characters, put them on the original ship, in their original costumes, in their original crew configuration, and told a story in the original setting. Yes, he made the costumes a little different, and the set a little brighter, and the setting a little off, but at the end of the day, this is nothing if not the original, 60's, franchise-starting Star Trek series revisitted.

Ah, but for a flower to grow, the weeds have to be destroyed, first. By cleaning the slate, there are so many intriguing and fascinating possibilities that wouldn't be there otherwise. Now the universe can truly grow and adapt, which it couldn't when all that continuity was bogging it down.

And then what? Twenty, thirty years from now the thing starts all over again? Is the crew of the Enterprise now composed entirely of Time Lords, able to regenerate and just keep on having the same adventure, over and over again?

And quite frankly, I've yet to hear anyone explain just how the previous canon was 'bogging' anything down. That's like saying that you can't write a decent story set in 2009, because there's just thousands of years of 'continuity', which is to say history, weighing everything down.

Read the book series sometime, the current storylines. They've had the Borg eat Pluto and raze Vulcan, while Riker and Troi explore strange new worlds and Janeway gallivants around with Lady Q. The books are just going crazy these days, with great authors writing fascinating stories that are expanding and shaking up the TNG-VOY universe. The only thing that stopped the television shows from offering good stories was the laziness of the writers, not the amount of canon already established.
 
I would like it if they didn't have to go through this abomination in order to be interested in Star Trek. It's like when a character needlessly dies. They needlessly made this movie horrible. It would have had the exact same success if they had made it properly with the right designs, crew, and writing. It's just a waste of a movie, since we're just going to have to make another one to replace it in a few years.
That's your opinion. And since I disagree with you, I'm going to just throw my hands up and walk away. I've met die hards before, and I know there's no arguing. But I think you're being short sighted. And you're going to be very disappointed when this doesn't go down in flames as you hope.

No, it won't go down in flames, there is no evidence that would allow anyone to come to that conclusion. I just think there are some valid concerns regarding the degeneration of Trek...


Fair enough.

But think of it this way. If you hadn't already been such a fan, do you think you would have been able to enjoy the film? It's a good movie, even if you don't think it's good Star Trek.
 
That's okay, but it is here, it is Star Trek, and it is staying. It is now established canon.
No it's not. It blatently contradicts what has been established, that puts it outside of canon.

No, the original poster was right. Like it or not, we have a new canon. And it's just as valid as the older one.

I really don't understand what the problem - the movie was fine and I enjoyed it. I've been a fan since 'The Wrath of Khan' and I had some reservations when the reboot was first announced. After seeing the movie, however, I'm sold. It gave props to the the old series without obliterating it, and did its own thing. What did you really expect?

I don't really expect you to answer, it's just the amount of vitriol being flung about on this board is quite baffling.
 
Again, it wasn't necessary to flush Trek down the toilet to make it popular again. That was just the quickest and easiest route to take. There were an infinite number of stories to be told that wouldn't have completely thrown out the existing Trek universe. The new casting was great, and would have been awesome with any number of these stories. But instead, they went the quick and dirty route and just threw everything away because they couldn't be bothered to worry about anything that had happened before.


AMEN!!!(except for the part about casting because I disagree)
 
Ah, but it neither grew nor adapted; it shrank and retreated.

I'm not even trying to be a dick about this. That is literally what the new Trek movie did. It shrank the canon, by chucking out everything but Enterprise, replacing twenty-one seasons and tons of books with a single two hour film. And it retreated back to the 60's version of Star Trek, rather than trying to do something new and expanding the Star Trek universe in a different direction. To its credit, this has apparently been a wise strategy, and from a business perspective seems to be a sensible investment. But please, let's not going around claiming that re-doing a forty year old television show is growth.

I understand how you feel. I am a hardcore Star Trek fan. I have been since I was 4 years old (I'm 29), and the original cast is held near and dear to my heart, but I like what has been done. Yes, there is some shock to absorb, but I can do it. I look forward to what good will come of this. I know you may not feel the same way.

You guys are making me sad. Fake Trek? Even if you don't like it, it's the Trek now. It exists.

Just having the name Star Trek doesn't make something Star Trek. Enterprise added Star Trek to it's name and that didn't make it Star Trek.

uniderth said:
Do they even still make Star Trek merchandise? Or is it all Fake Trek merchandise.

Star Trek merchandise is released under licensing by Paramount with the official Star Trek logo and copyright. Therefore it is Star Trek merchandise, and yes, Star Trek merchandise is selling very well.

I would like it if they didn't have to go through this abomination in order to be interested in Star Trek. It's like when a character needlessly dies. They needlessly made this movie horrible. It would have had the exact same success if they had made it properly with the right designs, crew, and writing. It's just a waste of a movie, since we're just going to have to make another one to replace it in a few years.

What makes you think it will be replaced in the next few years? The indication from this movie seems to show marketability to stay on course as it is, which is what I believe they will do, as a Star Trek XII is an almost certainty at this point.

No it's not. It blatently contradicts what has been established, that puts it outside of canon.

No, I'm afraid it does not. There have been canon contradictions in Star Trek in the past. The new canon generally overrides old canon as the story progresses and the timeline develops. For example, in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", it is stated on a tombstone that James Kirk's middle initial is "R". In a later episode of that same series, it is established that James Kirk's middle initial is "T". The accepted canon is James T. Kirk.

That being said, this movie does not violate canon, as it takes place in an alternatate universe, something explicitly stated.


J.
 
Star Trek does move on, and it grows. It adapts.

Ah, but it neither grew nor adapted; it shrank and retreated.

I'm not even trying to be a dick about this. That is literally what the new Trek movie did. It shrank the canon, by chucking out everything but Enterprise, replacing twenty-one seasons and tons of books with a single two hour film. And it retreated back to the 60's version of Star Trek, rather than trying to do something new and expanding the Star Trek universe in a different direction. To its credit, this has apparently been a wise strategy, and from a business perspective seems to be a sensible investment. But please, let's not going around claiming that re-doing a forty year old television show is growth.
Ah, but for a flower to grow, the weeds have to be destroyed, first. By cleaning the slate, there are so many intriguing and fascinating possibilities that wouldn't be there otherwise. Now the universe can truly grow and adapt, which it couldn't when all that continuity was bogging it down.

Very true. For roses to grow you have to cut them back, remove the dead leaves and stems, so that it blossoms into something even more beautiful, that it stays healthy and alive.

J.
 
And then what? Twenty, thirty years from now the thing starts all over again? Is the crew of the Enterprise now composed entirely of Time Lords, able to regenerate and just keep on having the same adventure, over and over again?
How can that be a bad thing? It keeps it invigorating. Yes, by all means: reboot the Star Trek universe every few decades! That means it'll stay up to date with people's zeitgeist. That means a hundred years from now, people will still know Star Trek. And I can't find any viewpoint that could consider that a bad thing.

And quite frankly, I've yet to hear anyone explain just how the previous canon was 'bogging' anything down. That's like saying that you can't write a decent story set in 2009, because there's just thousands of years of 'continuity', which is to say history, weighing everything down.
Most stories set in 2009 have nothing to do with history. Stories set in the past, have. Example in case: Valkyrie. It's not as if that's how history really went. If it was, it would be called a documentary. But it's not. That's why people liked it so much. And do you really think 300 got their history right? It was based on a real event, but beyond that? Half was made up. And still, people liked it. All those movies do not follow "established canon" where our history is concerned. The farther away from established history, the more successful they usually are.

Read the book series sometime, the current storylines. They've had the Borg eat Pluto and raze Vulcan, while Riker and Troi explore strange new worlds and Janeway gallivants around with Lady Q. The books are just going crazy these days, with great authors writing fascinating stories that are expanding and shaking up the TNG-VOY universe. The only thing that stopped the television shows from offering good stories was the laziness of the writers, not the amount of canon already established.
The first part is true, but, the regular audience doesn't buy the novels. And oldTrek fandom is too small to support a series. And to draw in more people, you need to lose some of that continuity. Just as has been done with this movie.
 
Agree. Agree. Agree. :(

But...
they blew up Vulcan!

To go with the DC comics comparison, it's as if they rebooted that universe with Gotham City being nuked.

Everything else about Star Trek was cool. The reshuffling of Kirk's history, Captain Pike, etc. But
they blew up Vulcan!
.

Every defense of Star Trek is fine. I loved the movie. But my response to all praise of the film always starts with
they blew up Vulcan!
.

It will be extremely hard for me to get over it.
 
And then what? Twenty, thirty years from now the thing starts all over again? Is the crew of the Enterprise now composed entirely of Time Lords, able to regenerate and just keep on having the same adventure, over and over again?
How can that be a bad thing? It keeps it invigorating. Yes, by all means: reboot the Star Trek universe every few decades! That means it'll stay up to date with people's zeitgeist. That means a hundred years from now, people will still know Star Trek. And I can't find any viewpoint that could consider that a bad thing.

And quite frankly, I've yet to hear anyone explain just how the previous canon was 'bogging' anything down. That's like saying that you can't write a decent story set in 2009, because there's just thousands of years of 'continuity', which is to say history, weighing everything down.
Most stories set in 2009 have nothing to do with history. Stories set in the past, have. Example in case: Valkyrie. It's not as if that's how history really went. If it was, it would be called a documentary. But it's not. That's why people liked it so much. And do you really think 300 got their history right? It was based on a real event, but beyond that? Half was made up. And still, people liked it. All those movies do not follow "established canon" where our history is concerned. The farther away from established history, the more successful they usually are.

Read the book series sometime, the current storylines. They've had the Borg eat Pluto and raze Vulcan, while Riker and Troi explore strange new worlds and Janeway gallivants around with Lady Q. The books are just going crazy these days, with great authors writing fascinating stories that are expanding and shaking up the TNG-VOY universe. The only thing that stopped the television shows from offering good stories was the laziness of the writers, not the amount of canon already established.
The first part is true, but, the regular audience doesn't buy the novels. And oldTrek fandom is too small to support a series. And to draw in more people, you need to lose some of that continuity. Just as has been done with this movie.

Remember what they say about people who ignore history :(
 
How can that be a bad thing? It keeps it invigorating. Yes, by all means: reboot the Star Trek universe every few decades! That means it'll stay up to date with people's zeitgeist. That means a hundred years from now, people will still know Star Trek. And I can't find any viewpoint that could consider that a bad thing.

Well, you could try asking me, I could provide you with the viewpoint you say you're unable to find.

What's the point, I would argue, of a series that never actually ages and expands and grows, but simply resets and contracts regularly? Kirk and Spock were great characters, but so was Picard, and Sisko, and heck even the Doctor and Tuvok had their moments. Isn't there more to this franchise, this whole, great fictional universe, than six men and one woman flying the same ship for ever and ever, amen?

Example in case: Valkyrie. It's not as if that's how history really went. If it was, it would be called a documentary. But it's not. That's why people liked it so much. And do you really think 300 got their history right? It was based on a real event, but beyond that? Half was made up. And still, people liked it. All those movies do not follow "established canon" where our history is concerned. The farther away from established history, the more successful they usually are.

That's, uh... That's not, in fact, what I asked you. At all. But what the heck, we'll roll with this line, instead.

Yes, 300 was an absurd exaggeration of history, and Valkyrie was a Hollywood Historical, which is to say that it wasn't very historical at all. And one was great fun, and the other was okay I guess, I never actually watched it. But for every 300 and Valkyrie, there's a movie that's set right here, right now, and manages to tell a story without being somehow strangled by the thousands of years of human history that've existed. And you know how they do that? The same way any of us get through our days; by not actually having much of anything to do with the past. Same thing as would happen in 99.9-repeating percent of Star Trek stories; there's no reason they'd be strangled by canon, because they wouldn't actually have anything to do with it. Canon's the history of the setting, and sometimes it comes up, like quoting Shakespeare in a romcom or referencing the Nazis in an Oscar contender, but most of the time the story at hand has nothing whatsoever to do, explicitly, with the ultra-majority of everything that has ever come before it.

The first part is true, but, the regular audience doesn't buy the novels. And oldTrek fandom is too small to support a series. And to draw in more people, you need to lose some of that continuity. Just as has been done with this movie.

I'm not saying the regular audience needs to buy the novels. What I'm saying is, those novels, and the things the writers have done to the universe, show that there's no inherent aspect of canon that prevents new and exciting things from happening. VOY and ENT weren't boring because of too much canon, they were boring because lazy writers churned out weak storylines about pointlessly agressive aliens and anomalies of the week. Canon simply doesn't enter into it.
 
And quite frankly, I've yet to hear anyone explain just how the previous canon was 'bogging' anything down. That's like saying that you can't write a decent story set in 2009, because there's just thousands of years of 'continuity', which is to say history, weighing everything down.

Exactly. It's a ridiculous excuse for LAZY writing. It's similar to doing a historical movie--you can either choose to do it right and actually research the material so you tell a story that is accurate, or you just make history into whatever you want it to be because that is the quick and easy way to do it.

Abrams & Co. wanted to make a science fiction film. They wanted the Star Trek name and characters (because creating and marketing new characters and a new property is much more difficult), but didn't want to be burdened with the Star Trek history. So they just erased it from existance. It was extremely lazy, and showed a complete disregard for the subject material.

But hey, it is selling really well, and making money is the only thing that really matters, right?

Really, I shouldn't be mad at Paramount or Abrams. The real blame falls on Berman & Co., who for whatever reason after First Contact completely lost the ability to make compelling Star Trek movies or TV series. If they hadn't completely crapped the bed with their material, Paramount would never have OKed a complete destruction of their entire universe. They only did so out of the desparation caused by the utter failure of recent Trek endeavors.
 
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