TNG Series in HD?

[Smitty]

Does anyone know if there is any plans to re-release the series in HD on blue-ray, sort of like they did with TOS? I know they added new special effects to the TOS but I do not think TNG needs that. But some of the episodes, especially from early seasons, are somewhat grainy and dirty in the current DVD release.

 

[CoveTom]

This has been discussed before, and I believe the official word is that releasing TNG in high def would actually be a much larger undertaking than TOS. The reason is that the special effects for TNG were shot on video, not film. And even though the live action was originally shot on film, and therefore is high def quality, it was all immediately transferred to video for editing, compositing with special effects, etc. So the completed shots only exist on video.

Therefore, nothing from TNG currently exists in a high def format. You'd not only have to re-do every single special effects shot, but you'd have to go back to the original negatives of all the live action footage and start from scratch.

Is it possible that this could be done? Sure, but it seems unlikely given the cost involved.

 

[LitmusDragon]

It's something that Paramount has shown interest in at various points. They originally were going to try an elaborate up-conversion of the video source but that proved futile (no doubt due to the rather poor quality of those tapes). It was mentioned at a convention recently that this is something they are still interested in. As Covetom said though, it would be difficult and all the FX shots would have to be redone. Eventually though, I think it's inevitable that it will happen.

 

[Ssosmcin]

This has been discussed before, and I believe the official word is that releasing TNG in high def would actually be a much larger undertaking than TOS. The reason is that the special effects for TNG were shot on video, not film.

I think it was the effects were shot on film, but edited on video and the original film foorage was destroyed at that point. Works out the same, though.

 

[Destructor]

Anyone else ever watch that show QI, when someone says something an the alarm goes off?

We need one of those for this thread.

 

[LitmusDragon]

This has been discussed before, and I believe the official word is that releasing TNG in high def would actually be a much larger undertaking than TOS. The reason is that the special effects for TNG were shot on video, not film.

I think it was the effects were shot on film, but edited on video and the original film foorage was destroyed at that point. Works out the same, though.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that this isn't true, that the original film stock is still available, but I can't find that information at the moment. Certainly at least some of it is still available, as some original TNG 35mm footage was used in the Enterprise finale and it was definitely not sourced from video tape. This was covered in the original thread here.

I found this link which is the convention information I was thinking of. John Van Citters (who was speaking) confirms that they are actively pursuing ways to convert TNG to high definition but does not mention whether or not the film stock is available. He does however say that it would be "incredibly difficult" but that he "expects it will happen eventually".

 

[RAMA]

This has been discussed before, and I believe the official word is that releasing TNG in high def would actually be a much larger undertaking than TOS. The reason is that the special effects for TNG were shot on video, not film.

I think it was the effects were shot on film, but edited on video and the original film foorage was destroyed at that point. Works out the same, though.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that this isn't true, that the original film stock is still available, but I can't find that information at the moment. Certainly at least some of it is still available, as some original TNG 35mm footage was used in the Enterprise finale and it was definitely not sourced from video tape. This was covered in the original thread here.

I found this link which is the convention information I was thinking of. John Van Citters (who was speaking) confirms that they are actively pursuing ways to convert TNG to high definition but does not mention whether or not the film stock is available. He does however say that it would be "incredibly difficult" but that he "expects it will happen eventually".

I think this says it ALL:

"It is being worked on and I expect it will happen, it is just a technical challenge." Following his talk, I confirmed with Van Citters that even though he is optimistic that the challenges will be met, as of now there is no specific plan or budget for the project within CBS. So this is still something that is a long-term project.

 

[GalaxyX]

I'm actually glad they need to redo the entire FX. TNG desperately needed more action scenes. I'm sick of the "enormous fight" scenes consisting of a static Enterprise firing one torpedo. And who can forget the 3-4 matte sets they keep on redressing and reusing! yeck!! They need to revamp these type of scenes.

 

[Takeru]

I'm actually glad they need to redo the entire FX. TNG desperately needed more action scenes. I'm sick of the "enormous fight" scenes consisting of a static Enterprise firing one torpedo. And who can forget the 3-4 matte sets they keep on redressing and reusing! yeck!! They need to revamp these type of scenes.

I agree and I hope they stop that respecting the original effects bullshit. It annoyed me to no end that they didn't change more when they remastered TOS.
I don't want them to treat the original versions like crap, like George Lucas did, but if you remaster something remaster it for real and take advantage of the opportunity and today's technology. Don't just take the original effects and make them prettier most of the time.

One thing they really have to change is getting rid of ALL shots of the giant Bird of Prey. The BOP is a small ship and it looked ridiculous when they pretended it was almsost as big as the Enterprise. I also want them to ditch the "Excelsior next to Enterprise" shot they used way too often, let's see Ambassadors, Nebulas and new ship classes.

Completely redo all fight scenes, I don't remember a single battle in TNG that didn't look lame, the Enterprise was always static when it fired it's weapons ... at least show it from another angle.

I also want them to extend the episodes. If they have to basically redo the entire post production process it shouldn't be a big deal to insert scenes that were cut for time or extend battle scenes. Who cares if the episode suddenly runs 4 minutes longer, it doesn't have to fit into a timeslot. And if they decide to air the episodes in syndication, they have to cut out footage anyway, so what's the difference.

Basically, what I don't want is a faithful recreation of the original episodes in HD. They can use multiple angles and seamless branching to include the original versions on the Blu-Rays, even if that means no HD for the space scenes.

 

[BlobVanDam]

I also want them to extend the episodes. If they have to basically redo the entire post production process it shouldn't be a big deal to insert scenes that were cut for time or extend battle scenes. Who cares if the episode suddenly runs 4 minutes longer, it doesn't have to fit into a timeslot. And if they decide to air the episodes in syndication, they have to cut out footage anyway, so what's the difference.

Basically, what I don't want is a faithful recreation of the original episodes in HD. They can use multiple angles and seamless branching to include the original versions on the Blu-Rays, even if that means no HD for the space scenes.

The only problem with extending the episodes is that all of that CG costs money, and I doubt they'll have a monster budget for this. I'd rather than spend the money to make the existing shots look great, rather than spread themselves thin trying to add more. Although it would be nice of them to add a bit more where the original couldn't due to technology limitations. When I was watching TNG for the first time only a year or two ago, I would call out "GENERIC ESTABLISHING SHOT B! (or whatever)" every time I saw those same 3 shots used over and over.

It's sad to hear that they don't have the original film. It would suck if TOS was able to have a good high def transfer from film, but not TNG. I guess my lifelong dream of seeing Picard facepalm in HD won't come to pass

 

[Takeru]

It's sad to hear that they don't have the original film.

But they do have the original film, they just don't have complete episodes (or a single visual effect) on film.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

Anyone else ever watch that show QI, when someone says something an the alarm goes off?

We need one of those for this thread.

With Stephen Fry narrating the thread

 

[BlobVanDam]

It's sad to hear that they don't have the original film.

But they do have the original film, they just don't have complete episodes (or a single visual effect) on film.

So do you know how much they do have (ignoring visual effects)? Is it bits and pieces, or a majority? I'd hate to see an episode with a mixture of both. They can run the current tapes through all of the fancy filters they want, but it will still stick out against scanned film footage.

 

[Takeru]

As I understand it they have all footage, including various unused takes. That's one of the problems, to get HD episodes they would have to check tons of film, pick the right takes and recreate the episodes from scratch, redoing every single effect, not just space scenes, but view screens, transporter effects and every friggin blip that was added in post-production.

 

[Angel4576]

^^ Thing is though, there are loads of people who would no doubt do all that checking for free if they were given access to the material.

Let's just be thankful that they're taking the long-term approach rather than the quickfix upscaling route. The upscaled version of DS9's Trials & Tribble-ations looks dreadful, in fact worse than the SD version IMO.

 

[Takeru]

^^ Thing is though, there are loads of people who would no doubt do all that checking for free if they were given access to the material.

Sure, but I doubt CBS would allow us to get our grubby little hands on the original footage, they just know that a good percentage of the volunteers would try to sneak a few frames out of the archives and into their collections.

 

[BlobVanDam]

As I understand it they have all footage, including various unused takes. That's one of the problems, to get HD episodes they would have to check tons of film, pick the right takes and recreate the episodes from scratch, redoing every single effect, not just space scenes, but view screens, transporter effects and every friggin blip that was added in post-production.

I've misunderstood the previous posts. I assumed that some of the original shot film was missing. I knew they'd need to redo all of the effects/comp works from scratch though, and was aware of the huge undertaking to redo the editing. But as long as all of the pieces are there so that it's possible, it will happen some day.

That's the kind of project I would kill to work on. And I know I could do at least as good as the remastered TOS

 

[Angel4576]

^^ Thing is though, there are loads of people who would no doubt do all that checking for free if they were given access to the material.

Sure, but I doubt CBS would allow us to get our grubby little hands on the original footage, they just know that a good percentage of the volunteers would try to sneak a few frames out of the archives and into their collections.

Well this is true, unfortunately. However, bring the volunteers to the footage rather than the other way around, and have the process overseen properly. Minimal cost to CBS, and fans get what they want. Plus, if there are any frames going spare......!

 

[CoveTom]

I think this thread demonstrates the inherent problem in a project like this. So much fanboyish "what TNG needs is more ACTION and we need different cuts and throw in this footage even though the director chose to cut it out" and on and on. What several people here are talking about is not finding a way to release TNG in high def, but to find a way to turn TNG into a different show.

No thank you.

I'd much rather keep my standard def copies of TNG then let people get ahold of it and do that crap to it.

 

[GalaxyX]

I think this thread demonstrates the inherent problem in a project like this. So much fanboyish "what TNG needs is more ACTION and we need different cuts and throw in this footage even though the director chose to cut it out" and on and on. What several people here are talking about is not finding a way to release TNG in high def, but to find a way to turn TNG into a different show.

No thank you.

I'd much rather keep my standard def copies of TNG then let people get ahold of it and do that crap to it.

My dad is the biggest TOS fan in existence. He wasn't sure what to expect when I got him the TOS Remastered set.

He freakin' loved it!! I have to agree with him: They basically kept the heart and soul of the show, but drastically increased the visual package. Because of our love for a series, we are willing to overlook certain things, like watching the same matte shot over and over and over and over, etc.

If you remember the TOS episode "The Doomsday Device", watch the original, and then watch the remastered version. I think only stubborn people would say that the remastered sucked. I would say the remastered version caught the exact look and feel that the original story wanted to convey, but didn't have the tech/budget for.

TNG is the same way. There are tons of scenes in it that should be more grandiose, bigger, and higher in scope.

Remember the huge fleet that Starfleet was going to send to blockade the Romulans? There were supposed to be like 20-30 ships, but we got to see 3 kitbashes. I'd LOVE to see all freakin' 30 ships in that shot as it was intended!

Another bonus is that hopefully they can redo all the hand phaser beams. First they need to make them look steady, and not like someone is pissing (an unstable water jet). Second, they need to make them instantaneous. None of this "beam is streaming over to the target at a speed of a painball". It should be "You pressed the trigger, the target is getting hit simultaneously!"

Sadly, the best looking phaser beams were shown on "Enterprise". The remastered TNG beams should be done the same or better.