TNG Returns!

[Sophie74656]

It kind of makes me sad when people give thesw actors a hard time about their appearance. Yes some of them have gained somw weight but damn it's been 30 years since TNG. I hope i look half as good as them at that age. I've seen most of the cast less than a year ago and they all looked great.

 

[marillion]

But the line doesn't work because it ignores already establishes facts:

Around 2336:
Data is constructed by Soong.

2338:
Data found by the U.S.S. Tripoli crew.

2341:
Data admitted into Starfleet Academy.

2364:
Data is assigned to the Enterprise.

You know.. That's one thing that's always kind of bugged me about Data's timeline... Ok.. so he gets into the Academy in 2341... Depending on how long he attended, and then took assignment on a starship (presumably, unless he was stationed at HQ for studying purposes by SF science/engineers), it's then 23 years before he ends up on the Enterprise. What always bothered me was about how socially awkward he was initially... Did he not pursue being more "human" during those years before coming aboard the Enterprise and as such, already have a more developed personality? He was almost childlike in his non-professional mannerisms.. I get that the whole idea about his character on the show was to show him grow and develop, but still...

Also, in talking about B-4, it was established in Countdown (the official prequel comic to ST '09) that he had successfully transferred all of his algorithms, personality traits, etc. to B-4's body/matrix. Wouldn't the comic count as canon because it was officially sanctioned as a tie in to the movie?

 

[Dukhat]

Wouldn't the comic count as canon because it was officially sanctioned as a tie in to the movie?

No. Comics, books, or other tie-in stuff is not canon. Only what's shown on screen.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

It kind of makes me sad when people give thesw actors a hard time about their appearance. Yes some of them have gained somw weight but damn it's been 30 years since TNG.

I never judged anyone, it's just that it would be unconsistent to have Data look like a 70 years old man. Of course the actors aged, there's no issue with that.

 

[marillion]

Ah.. Ok.. I guess my reference was the tie-in prequel novels for The Force Awakens that ARE considered canon. I figured Trek would work the same.

 

[Relayer1]

The way they brought Data back in the novels was way better than in Countdown.

 

[tharpdevenport]

You know.. That's one thing that's always kind of bugged me about Data's timeline... Ok.. so he gets into the Academy in 2341... Depending on how long he attended, and then took assignment on a starship (presumably, unless he was stationed at HQ for studying purposes by SF science/engineers), it's then 23 years before he ends up on the Enterprise. What always bothered me was about how socially awkward he was initially... Did he not pursue being more "human" during those years before coming aboard the Enterprise and as such, already have a more developed personality? He was almost childlike in his non-professional mannerisms.. I get that the whole idea about his character on the show was to show him grow and develop, but still...

Yeah, that's bothered me, too. I've brought it up here at TrekBBS probably in three or four threads now.

Now only that, but these also occurred to me:

So, how come none of the previous ship mates or Academy members ever come up?

And how it is he was that inept, but earned all those awards we saw in "the Most Toys"? How come none of those ever come up? If he got all those, how come he ended up not getting any others (that I recall), while on the Enterprise?

I know moving through the ranks can be a slow process, but his rank is so low by the time he reaches the Enterprise. No human error or forgetfulness should have allowed him to get a little higher.


And a new one occurred to me just now:

How come it took all that time for anybody to go back and find Lore? Did the U.S.S. Tripoli crew decide not to look any further? Couldn't be anything else to find but one sentient android, LOL.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

Did he not pursue being more "human" during those years before coming aboard the Enterprise and as such, already have a more developed personality? He was almost childlike in his non-professional mannerisms.. I get that the whole idea about his character on the show was to show him grow and develop, but still...

Social context is absolutely essential when it comes to personality development and growth. Maybe Data's colleagues at his previous assignements weren't as friendly and open as his USS Entreprise colleagues. As much as I remember, nothing is ever said about his relationship with his past colleagues, but he may have faced speciesism, ostracism or even implicit bullying (like indirect rejection, mean jokes he didn't understand...). And maybe people weren't comfortable around him and didn't act naturally, so he had very little material to take example from.
You can see in Data's interactions with his Entreprise colleagues that they act naturally with him and don't treat him very differently from a human colleague, thus giving him a lot to learn from and emulate.
Juliana stated that Data was a lot like a baby, and then a toddler, when he was first activated. So it makes sense to think he develops by social mimicking and emulation just like human children. Give him the appropriate human social context and he will develop a more human-like personality and array of behaviours, but he could have developed a klingon-like personality, ferengi-like...I think he pretty much imprints on what he's exposed to in a similar way than we do.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

So you're saying that even though Data would still function normally 500 years from now, he'd look like a 500 year old man?

That is putting words in my mouth. Like I said, we have no details of how the aging pragram works. There might be an upper limit, there might be a cut off. All we know (and all I am saying) is the character appeared to age, and there is dialogue to say that he appears to age. I'm not saying it makes sense to build an android that ages, only that it's what's been suggested and seen. As such, having him appear aged even further is not inconsistent with what we've what seen, and been told.

 

[Butters]

Data has stated on occasions that his physical state is static. Ira also expected to live out to the end of time.

The streak of white hair, and that beard were the only indications that his appearance could change over time. It was spiner aging, not data, but it was easy to look past that, because he’s family, in the Trek sense.

 

[Terok Nor]

I hope this turns out to be true. Nemesis was not a good send off for the TNG crew. I'd love to see all of them again.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

The streak of white hair, and that beard were the only indications that his appearance could change over time.

But the beard was a conscious choice of his. He explains in Birthright part I that he has hair follicles and can deliberately control their growth :

BASHIR: Right. Data, can I ask you a personal question?
DATA: Certainly.
BASHIR: Does your hair grow?
DATA: I can control the rate of my follicle replenishment. However, I have not yet had a reason to modify the length of my hair. Why do you ask?
BASHIR: Just curious.

So the streak of white could be a choice of his as well, instead of the effect of some aging mechanism.

 

[saladdays]

I'm fine with it. I still doubt it will happen, but a relatively short new TNG series would be OK.

 

[mos6507]

..call me when you

Poor analogy. Actors are supposed to be more photogenic than the average guy.

If the Riker character hadn't been framed as a man of action initially then it would be a different story...maybe. I just think as he looks now there's no way for him to be Riker the swashbuckler type with the twinkle in his eye.

 

[at Quark's]

I hope this turns out to be true. Nemesis was not a good send off for the TNG crew. I'd love to see all of them again.

They'd have to settle more than just that score. TNG movies didn't just ruin a fine sendoff of the TNG crew in All Good things. They also ruined the already perfect sendoff of Kirk's crew in TUC by having Kirk die a rather silly death in Generations.

 

[saladdays]

Poor analogy. Actors are supposed to be more photogenic than the average guy.

There's plenty of actors out there that aren't that photogenic.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

Poor analogy. Actors are supposed to be more photogenic than the average guy.

I don't share this point of view at all. I think the diversity of actors should reflect the diversity of people. Cast are often chosen according to some archetypes, but that isn't an absolute rule. The actor who played O'Brian could have played Riker, I wouldn't have found it strange or abnormal.
Besides, the characters' personalities could have evolved as they aged, so I don't see why an older, wiser Riker couldn't be played by an older Frakes.

 

[Jayson1]

If they want to bring Spiner back as Data all they have to say is he has always had a aging program only it was hidden in some unknown subroutines like his dreaming program. The idea is he can age but then reset his looks at some point. The idea being that he can age with a group of friends he makes as they age and when they someday die he then can start over with the next set of friends he makes.

Jason

 

[Sophie74656]

If they want to bring Spiner back as Data all they have to say is he has always had a aging program only it was hidden in some unknown subroutines like his dreaming program. The idea is he can age but then reset his looks at some point. The idea being that he can age with a group of friends he makes as they age and when they someday die he then can start over with the next set of friends he makes.

Jason

or he created a program.

i think it honestly would be pretty simple to make him appear aged. He implimented some protocoal or program whatever you want to call it to age his face. Or honestly if they do nothing to reference the fact that the actor appears older, can't we all as fans over look this? We understand it's an actor playing a part. We can pretend we don't notice. You know like in a show when they're hiding the pregnant lady's belly? We all know she's pregnant but we pretend she's not because we understand it's a tv show.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

If they want to bring Spiner back as Data all they have to say is he has always had a aging program only it was hidden in some unknown subroutines like his dreaming program.

Mmh, sorry to get a bit technical, but I don't think we can talk of an aging "subroutine" or program. There's a difference between software and hardware here.
Sure, Data's dreams are managed and processed by programs - because they're basically brain activities. They're part of his software interface, like our consciousness and dreams are part of our biological brain interface.
Aging is a completely different thing. That would involve specific hardware mechanics Data doesn't seem to possess, based on what we know from the series. He would be able to grow grey locks of hair, he would be able to change his bioplast face for one that looks older ; but he'd still be unable to 'age' as we biological lifeforms intend it. A routine (software) won't be able to change the fact that his body (hardware) doesn't age.