TNG RELAUNCH? WHY THE NEGATIVITY?
- Thread starter wahwahkits
- Start date
^ You mean like the 70-odd other TNG books besides Vendetta?
I certainly don't agree with the "hatred" toward Before Dishonour, but it did seem somewhat off to me. It just didn't capture the sense of scale that such significant events should have, and came off as rather silly. The concept of the Borg evolving was great, the execution less so.
I'm a huge fan of PAD, and have upwards of 20 of his books on my shelf, but his writing has just not been up to his usual standards in the last few years, IMHO. There's so many scenes that are similar to things he's done before, which I don't get with other authors that I also read regularly.
I enjoyed Death in Winter and thought Q & A was terrific - that was the first non-New Frontier book I've bought in several years.
I certainly don't agree with the "hatred" toward Before Dishonour, but it did seem somewhat off to me. It just didn't capture the sense of scale that such significant events should have, and came off as rather silly. The concept of the Borg evolving was great, the execution less so.
I'm a huge fan of PAD, and have upwards of 20 of his books on my shelf, but his writing has just not been up to his usual standards in the last few years, IMHO. There's so many scenes that are similar to things he's done before, which I don't get with other authors that I also read regularly.
I enjoyed Death in Winter and thought Q & A was terrific - that was the first non-New Frontier book I've bought in several years.
I am also one who has been surprised by the negativity regarding the TNG-R. I wasn't thrilled with DIW, but also looked at it as a transitional story, and in that sense enjoyed it just fine. I was very disappointed in Resistance, and am a bit tired of the Borg in general, although to be fair that has something to do with the fact that I spent the months prior to this book going through and watching the seven seasons of Voyager for the first time. By the end of that series I was ready for something different.
I enjoyed Q & A although I did wish that it had been longer as others have stated here. It was dealing with a lot of big ideas and concepts and I would have preferred that it had explored them to a greater extent. I was not ready for the end when it came. However, I did enjoy the story, as I have all of KRAD's books that I have read (I am currently reading A Good Day to Die - just picking up the Gorkon series, and am thoroughly enjoying it).
As for Before Dishonor, I have always enjoyed Peter David's writing and this was no exception. I did not see the problems in characterization that many others did. I accepted it as new characters and that we were simply seeing a different side of their personalities. Again, I was not thrilled that the Borg played so heavily in the storyline, but I did enjoy the book overall.
All in all, Resistance is the only one of these books that I have had a particular problem with and am looking forward to Christopher Bennett's upcoming novel in the series. On that note, I loved The Buried Age and hope that we continue to see more books in the Lost Era series.
I enjoyed Q & A although I did wish that it had been longer as others have stated here. It was dealing with a lot of big ideas and concepts and I would have preferred that it had explored them to a greater extent. I was not ready for the end when it came. However, I did enjoy the story, as I have all of KRAD's books that I have read (I am currently reading A Good Day to Die - just picking up the Gorkon series, and am thoroughly enjoying it).
As for Before Dishonor, I have always enjoyed Peter David's writing and this was no exception. I did not see the problems in characterization that many others did. I accepted it as new characters and that we were simply seeing a different side of their personalities. Again, I was not thrilled that the Borg played so heavily in the storyline, but I did enjoy the book overall.
All in all, Resistance is the only one of these books that I have had a particular problem with and am looking forward to Christopher Bennett's upcoming novel in the series. On that note, I loved The Buried Age and hope that we continue to see more books in the Lost Era series.
I felt Resistance was just too "by the numbers", offerig very little that was new. Q&A was just the opposite: A excellent, well told, imaginative story. One of my favorites!
I didn't hate Before Dsihonor like several people here, but it definitely has its flaws. It ruined the new characters KRAD carefully created and that whole Star Trek: The Sitcom thing Peter David does was getting old in NF so seeing it ported to TNG was a little stale, otherwise I liked.
Why the negativity? How about:
1) Too much Borg.
2) Too much Borg.
3) Too much Borg.
4) Too much Borg.
5) Did I say too much Borg?
6) There is no #6.
7) Too much Borg.
Also...and not only is this a minor nit, but I am trying as best I can to say it without sounding like an intolerant Bible-thumper...I admit I did have issues with the concept of "them" from Q&A. But I can learn to get over that, I suppose.
For the record, I frakking loved that bit in Q&A with all of those parallel Enterprises. :thumbsup:
1) Too much Borg.
2) Too much Borg.
3) Too much Borg.
4) Too much Borg.
5) Did I say too much Borg?
6) There is no #6.
7) Too much Borg.
Also...and not only is this a minor nit, but I am trying as best I can to say it without sounding like an intolerant Bible-thumper...I admit I did have issues with the concept of "them" from Q&A. But I can learn to get over that, I suppose.
For the record, I frakking loved that bit in Q&A with all of those parallel Enterprises. :thumbsup:
Where to start, where to start with the complete arse-up that is the TNG relaunch.
Well, I suppose I should start by pointing out that in no way do I consider Q&A to connected to the shear stench that is Resistance and Before Dishonour. As always KRAD delivered hugely in this book, and not only is it the best of the bunch, it's quite possibly of the best Star Trek book in ages, and that's some stiff competition. However, like most I do have one gripe: It's too damn short! Damn you KRAD!
I get to the end and I'm frothing at the mouth for more - it just went by way too fast.
Now, while I was hoping the TNG relaunch could introduce us to a wide array of new characters of the same calibre as the DS9 relaunch or the Titan line, but I understand that you guys over at Pocket wanted to try something different here. While Q&A's two addition weren't bad by any measure, I never felt they were lasting characters, good as they may be.
And let's not even get started on T'Lanna, who admittedly was salvaged slightly by KRAD, only for PAD to put the bullet between the eyes. A bitch you love to hate. Half right. Just a plain bitch, with absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever, consistently trying to undermine the captain's authority, she may as well have been the Enterprise's resident SS officer. Yeah Picard was disobeying orders, but anyone with half a brain could see that he was justified and right - just like he told Data in Redemption, Starfleet doesn't want officers who'll blindly follow orders. Evidently when choosing the new crew he must've forgotten that.
Bringing us to Before Dishonour, which, putting aside the terrible mutiny which made no sense, the complete aloofness of every single person in the book in the face of certain distruction by the Borg, the Borg's moustache-twirling new queen (TM), the character assassinations of both Leybenzon and Kadohata (and even T'Lanna), the simple fact is, this was not a TNG novel: It was a Seven of Nine novel with some TNG characters guesting.
I should stop now before I go off a cliff with rage.
I just hope and pray that Christopher won't let me down with Greater Than the Sum. Which I know he won't, but I do wonder if he's taking any of the criticisms leveled at the relaunch so far seriously. Not that he should, as KRAD already put it so succinctly none of our opinions here on the internet really matter, and a lot of the criticisms of the relaunch can be made about the writers themselves, not the overall arc of the books, since there have only been four so far. Though one I wish would be addressed: the new crew of the Enterprise-E.
As I said, I was hoping for the rich characters of Titan and DS9, which obviously the editors didn't want to do this time around, and to the detriment of the books I'm finding. The really, big beef about the Relaunch I have, aside from two of the books being stinkers: the Enterprise feels empty. It feels like the only characters we actually know and care about are the old ones, and there's only four of those. Please guys, put some better supporting characters in, that's all I ask.
Well, I suppose I should start by pointing out that in no way do I consider Q&A to connected to the shear stench that is Resistance and Before Dishonour. As always KRAD delivered hugely in this book, and not only is it the best of the bunch, it's quite possibly of the best Star Trek book in ages, and that's some stiff competition. However, like most I do have one gripe: It's too damn short! Damn you KRAD!
I get to the end and I'm frothing at the mouth for more - it just went by way too fast.
Now, while I was hoping the TNG relaunch could introduce us to a wide array of new characters of the same calibre as the DS9 relaunch or the Titan line, but I understand that you guys over at Pocket wanted to try something different here. While Q&A's two addition weren't bad by any measure, I never felt they were lasting characters, good as they may be.
And let's not even get started on T'Lanna, who admittedly was salvaged slightly by KRAD, only for PAD to put the bullet between the eyes. A bitch you love to hate. Half right. Just a plain bitch, with absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever, consistently trying to undermine the captain's authority, she may as well have been the Enterprise's resident SS officer. Yeah Picard was disobeying orders, but anyone with half a brain could see that he was justified and right - just like he told Data in Redemption, Starfleet doesn't want officers who'll blindly follow orders. Evidently when choosing the new crew he must've forgotten that.
Bringing us to Before Dishonour, which, putting aside the terrible mutiny which made no sense, the complete aloofness of every single person in the book in the face of certain distruction by the Borg, the Borg's moustache-twirling new queen (TM), the character assassinations of both Leybenzon and Kadohata (and even T'Lanna), the simple fact is, this was not a TNG novel: It was a Seven of Nine novel with some TNG characters guesting.
I should stop now before I go off a cliff with rage.
I just hope and pray that Christopher won't let me down with Greater Than the Sum. Which I know he won't, but I do wonder if he's taking any of the criticisms leveled at the relaunch so far seriously. Not that he should, as KRAD already put it so succinctly none of our opinions here on the internet really matter, and a lot of the criticisms of the relaunch can be made about the writers themselves, not the overall arc of the books, since there have only been four so far. Though one I wish would be addressed: the new crew of the Enterprise-E.
As I said, I was hoping for the rich characters of Titan and DS9, which obviously the editors didn't want to do this time around, and to the detriment of the books I'm finding. The really, big beef about the Relaunch I have, aside from two of the books being stinkers: the Enterprise feels empty. It feels like the only characters we actually know and care about are the old ones, and there's only four of those. Please guys, put some better supporting characters in, that's all I ask.
Of the 4 books I've only read Q&A, which I loved, and Before Dishonor, which I couldn't stand, so much so that I only read about 5 chapters before quitting.
As for Q&A, I absolutely loved it. I thought They were interesting, I loved the Q flashbacks, and I really liked the new characters.
Then on the whole other side of the spectrum is BD, which I couldn't stand. I thought that the new Borg thing was just way to over the top, and IMO kinda cheesy, I didn't care for the characterisation of Jellico (I understand he didn't trust 7 but for some reason it was driving me absolutely crazy, I think maybe it was just too much or something) and alot of the stuff I heard about on here sounded just as bad, if not worse.
As for Q&A, I absolutely loved it. I thought They were interesting, I loved the Q flashbacks, and I really liked the new characters.
Then on the whole other side of the spectrum is BD, which I couldn't stand. I thought that the new Borg thing was just way to over the top, and IMO kinda cheesy, I didn't care for the characterisation of Jellico (I understand he didn't trust 7 but for some reason it was driving me absolutely crazy, I think maybe it was just too much or something) and alot of the stuff I heard about on here sounded just as bad, if not worse.
not that they don't matter, but to use some statistical terms, the sample size is too small and not random, therefore, they are not representative of the overall population.
Why the ALLCAPS? Anyway...
I've went at length into why I didn't care for Death in Winter and Resistance and why I thought Q&A rocked the casbah in my review for these books. I didn't write up a review for Before Dishonor since, at that point, previous poster had pretty well covered what I wanted to say in the thorough lambasting it received in Vixen's thread. In summary, though (and forum regulars know by now to cringe whenever I say things like this or 'briefly put'), I'll say this about the TNG Relaunch, largely excluding Q&A:
(1) Repetitive. I'm not just talking about the obsession with the Borg here, although that's a big part of it. I'm also taking about how much of the content itself just seemed to riff on elements of the series, movies, or in BD's case, David's previous work. Obviously I would expect the themes and character points of the series to continue, but I was also hoping for some new direction, new plot seeds, and so far it's been a lot of 'same old, same old'.
(2) False Epic. In terms of set-up and plot, the TNG Relaunch obviously wants to be epic. Grand action across the quadrant, life-and-death struggles for civilization, etc. Except that thus far, most books have failed to deliver on that promise. DiW was pedestrian, Resistance uninspired, and Before Dishonor impossible to take seriously. They're plenty ambitious in scope in theory, but fail to deliver on the page with downright insipid storylines.
(3) Directionless. Related to (1), but I feel worth mentioning on its own. From the false start that was Death in Winter, the Relaunch is just spinning its wheels, stuck in a quagmire. This might seem odd with Destiny around the corner, but I have no sense of momentum, no sense that events are leading us somewhere other than yet another tussle with the Borg. I can't help but compare this, perhaps unfairly, with the DS9R, where I always had a powerful sense of the overall story steadily moving forward, which contributes to my wanting to get to the next story, to see what aspect of the tapestry it will reveal. With the TNG Relaunch, I couldn't even know from reading these books that there is an overall story.
(4) Characterization. Another plus in the DS9R was the strength of the new characters and the broad, evolving supporting cast. This was particularly important for this series considering how few main cast members from the series are actually left (Picard, Crusher, Worf and Geordi). The standing characters have, I must admit, received largely good treatment, particularly the budding Picard and Crusher relationship, though I still think Geordi's sorely lacking for character development. But no one new has been added to the roster worth mentioning. Probably the most interesting character so far was Jon Stephens, and that's not saying much since he very obvious came off the Peter David Character Assembly Line (tm). The new senior staff officers are bland and unlikeable (and here I'm forced to include Q&A in the criticism); I couldn't care less if they lived or died, and after Before Dishonor would probably prefer the latter. And, of course, the disparity between Q&A and Before Dishonor is to me, though I understand others are inclined to be more lenient, a major screwup. Finally, where this was an ideal opportunity to flesh out the crew of the ENT-E, so far it feels like a ghost ship. Maybe it's hard to talk about life aboard ship while rushing from one crisis to another, but the TNG Relaunch is, IMHO, shooting itself in the foot by not taking the opportunity afforded by the novel format to create a large and diverse cast for the series.
(5) Bizarre Decisions. Honestly, some of the stuff happening in the Relaunch just leaves me scratching my head, wondering why anybody thought this was a good idea. From bringing back the Borg while pathetically failing to do anything interesting with them--worse, making them even more conventional as villains than ever before--to the string of magical plot devices in Resistance, to the decision to give the lead from another series the Tasha Yar treatment thirty pages into the book, the Relaunch has been replete with these moments that leave me with a furrowed brow and a vile taste in my mouth. Maybe--I can only hope--some of the 'bigger-picture' type things will make more sense in retrospective when we get to Destiny, but even at that, there should at least be some kind of internal acknowledgement that something not quite right is happening (as was the case with Shakaar).
Why so? I didn't think They were associated with any theological tradition in specific--none that I recognized, anyway. Indeed, the very fact that They are Them rather than He (or It) would point away from a Judeo-Christian conception of divinity, unless you want to get into some of that complicated trinitarian stuff.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
I've went at length into why I didn't care for Death in Winter and Resistance and why I thought Q&A rocked the casbah in my review for these books. I didn't write up a review for Before Dishonor since, at that point, previous poster had pretty well covered what I wanted to say in the thorough lambasting it received in Vixen's thread. In summary, though (and forum regulars know by now to cringe whenever I say things like this or 'briefly put'), I'll say this about the TNG Relaunch, largely excluding Q&A:
(1) Repetitive. I'm not just talking about the obsession with the Borg here, although that's a big part of it. I'm also taking about how much of the content itself just seemed to riff on elements of the series, movies, or in BD's case, David's previous work. Obviously I would expect the themes and character points of the series to continue, but I was also hoping for some new direction, new plot seeds, and so far it's been a lot of 'same old, same old'.
(2) False Epic. In terms of set-up and plot, the TNG Relaunch obviously wants to be epic. Grand action across the quadrant, life-and-death struggles for civilization, etc. Except that thus far, most books have failed to deliver on that promise. DiW was pedestrian, Resistance uninspired, and Before Dishonor impossible to take seriously. They're plenty ambitious in scope in theory, but fail to deliver on the page with downright insipid storylines.
(3) Directionless. Related to (1), but I feel worth mentioning on its own. From the false start that was Death in Winter, the Relaunch is just spinning its wheels, stuck in a quagmire. This might seem odd with Destiny around the corner, but I have no sense of momentum, no sense that events are leading us somewhere other than yet another tussle with the Borg. I can't help but compare this, perhaps unfairly, with the DS9R, where I always had a powerful sense of the overall story steadily moving forward, which contributes to my wanting to get to the next story, to see what aspect of the tapestry it will reveal. With the TNG Relaunch, I couldn't even know from reading these books that there is an overall story.
(4) Characterization. Another plus in the DS9R was the strength of the new characters and the broad, evolving supporting cast. This was particularly important for this series considering how few main cast members from the series are actually left (Picard, Crusher, Worf and Geordi). The standing characters have, I must admit, received largely good treatment, particularly the budding Picard and Crusher relationship, though I still think Geordi's sorely lacking for character development. But no one new has been added to the roster worth mentioning. Probably the most interesting character so far was Jon Stephens, and that's not saying much since he very obvious came off the Peter David Character Assembly Line (tm). The new senior staff officers are bland and unlikeable (and here I'm forced to include Q&A in the criticism); I couldn't care less if they lived or died, and after Before Dishonor would probably prefer the latter. And, of course, the disparity between Q&A and Before Dishonor is to me, though I understand others are inclined to be more lenient, a major screwup. Finally, where this was an ideal opportunity to flesh out the crew of the ENT-E, so far it feels like a ghost ship. Maybe it's hard to talk about life aboard ship while rushing from one crisis to another, but the TNG Relaunch is, IMHO, shooting itself in the foot by not taking the opportunity afforded by the novel format to create a large and diverse cast for the series.
(5) Bizarre Decisions. Honestly, some of the stuff happening in the Relaunch just leaves me scratching my head, wondering why anybody thought this was a good idea. From bringing back the Borg while pathetically failing to do anything interesting with them--worse, making them even more conventional as villains than ever before--to the string of magical plot devices in Resistance, to the decision to give the lead from another series the Tasha Yar treatment thirty pages into the book, the Relaunch has been replete with these moments that leave me with a furrowed brow and a vile taste in my mouth. Maybe--I can only hope--some of the 'bigger-picture' type things will make more sense in retrospective when we get to Destiny, but even at that, there should at least be some kind of internal acknowledgement that something not quite right is happening (as was the case with Shakaar).
Why so? I didn't think They were associated with any theological tradition in specific--none that I recognized, anyway. Indeed, the very fact that They are Them rather than He (or It) would point away from a Judeo-Christian conception of divinity, unless you want to get into some of that complicated trinitarian stuff.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Exactly. Not only that, but "they" definitely don't act like I believe God acts.
But, as I said, I can overlook this. Even though the use and concept of "them" is incompatible with my beliefs, I can still enjoy the book as a whole. (This is also the attitude I have towards Trek in general, "Bread and Circuses" notwithstanding.)
I don't enjoy certain books more than the rest because they *are* Christian (for example, while I basically enjoy the Left Behind series, I freely admit that some of its novels kind of suck), and I don't like Q&A less just because it isn't.
(The only book that I *do* get my religious beliefs from, is the Bible.
)Fair enough?
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If you mean, did I take them into account in writing GTTS, keep in mind that I outlined the novel before any of its three predecessors had come out; I was working from manuscripts and galleys rather than finished books. As for the actual writing, I think I began it somewhere around the time Resistance came out and had it mostly finished by the time Before Dishonor came out. So no, my writing process wasn't affected by reader comments on the earlier books.
There are several new crewmembers introduced in GTTS, most of whom play significant roles in Destiny as well.
Ah, so your objection stems not so much from the way They're depicted, but rather that They exist in the first place--it offends the sensibility of exclusionary monotheism. I'd say that if you believe in a deity that transcends time, space, the multiverse, etc., then there's no reason why They wouldn't just be another inferior gradation of existance, one (or more) steps down the hierarchy, very powerful indeed (much like the Q) but not at the level of omnipotence/omniscience/omnipresence of the hypothetical deity, and thus still subsumed within its creation.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
For me, the relaunch hasn't been that bad. Haven't read Death in Winter as I wasn't really interested and didn't know it was part of the relaunch.
Resistance, imo, was terrible. T'Lanna seemed more like a Vulcan from the first seasons of Enterprise rather than anyone we've met since TOS and Worf seemed out of character to me. I didn't mind the throw away characters, even though I knew they were red shirts from the beginning and it did show the change in the Borg well. But then the whole Borg story went downhill. How does becoming Locutus again become anywhere close to a good idea? It took what could have been a good idea and killed it.
Q&A, at first I was nervous about the book. I originally thought that PAD should do this one and KRAD should do Before Dishonor. Boy was I wrong. Everything about this book was awesome and it moves like a fun rollercoaster ride. I loved the way all the Q episodes were tied into one big lesson for Picard and that Picard actually learned it despite himself. The "Them" I thought was the same as the girl that Q talked to in I,Q so it all fit to me. Definately the best book of the relaunch so far. And as long as I still get the Gorkon/Empire books I hope KRAD will do more TNG books.
Before Dishonor is kind of a mixed bag for me. On the one hand I loved the whole thing and on the other it was just so different than what I normally expect from TNG that it was off-putting. It felt more like a comic book than a Trek novel or episode. The mutiny seemed stupid, but some of my favorite scenes took place because of it. And the whole Pluto thing caused me to laugh out loud in the middle of my World Civilizations class.
Resistance, imo, was terrible. T'Lanna seemed more like a Vulcan from the first seasons of Enterprise rather than anyone we've met since TOS and Worf seemed out of character to me. I didn't mind the throw away characters, even though I knew they were red shirts from the beginning and it did show the change in the Borg well. But then the whole Borg story went downhill. How does becoming Locutus again become anywhere close to a good idea? It took what could have been a good idea and killed it.
Q&A, at first I was nervous about the book. I originally thought that PAD should do this one and KRAD should do Before Dishonor. Boy was I wrong. Everything about this book was awesome and it moves like a fun rollercoaster ride. I loved the way all the Q episodes were tied into one big lesson for Picard and that Picard actually learned it despite himself. The "Them" I thought was the same as the girl that Q talked to in I,Q so it all fit to me. Definately the best book of the relaunch so far. And as long as I still get the Gorkon/Empire books I hope KRAD will do more TNG books.
Before Dishonor is kind of a mixed bag for me. On the one hand I loved the whole thing and on the other it was just so different than what I normally expect from TNG that it was off-putting. It felt more like a comic book than a Trek novel or episode. The mutiny seemed stupid, but some of my favorite scenes took place because of it. And the whole Pluto thing caused me to laugh out loud in the middle of my World Civilizations class.
^^ sorry I've buggered up the quote thing^^ 
you need [ /quote ] after every [ quote ] (leaving the space out, of course), for example,
which looks like this:
also make sure you cut off some stuff when quoting, it is much easier to read that way.
now, go back and edit your post!
HTML:
[quote]someone said something[/quote]also make sure you cut off some stuff when quoting, it is much easier to read that way.
now, go back and edit your post!
Thanks Rosalind!! I've got an 8 year old daughter and she can work this computer way better than me!
As for the editing thing.....
Please don't let the negative reviews put you off!! I loved Death In Winter and if you're enjoying that you will love the rest trust me!!
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