TNG movie dislike?

[Balok's Decoy]

I watched Generations tonight after not having seen it in many years. I gotta say, I thought it was fantastic. Really think that movie is underrated. I hate to constantly feel like a Trek contrarian, but I may even like Generations more than First Contact. I also watched FC tonight, and it's excellent, don't get me wrong. But Generations had a greater emotional resonance with me. Perhaps it was getting to see Kirk again. I may be 28, but I still consider him "my" Captain.

 

[JesterFace]

It's been a long time since I watched Generations... Do I remember correctly that the missile Soran shot into the sun in the Veridian system didn't have warp capabilities? If it didn't, it sure got there fast on impulse/other propulsion.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

It's been a long time since I watched Generations... Do I remember correctly that the missile Soran shot into the sun in the Veridian system didn't have warp capabilities? If it didn't, it sure got there fast on impulse/other propulsion.

I don't think they said one way or the other.

 

[Ion]

The TNG movies fell short for me because they were just... collectively unimportant.

The TOS movies all had some level of long-term in-universe impact. In TMP, we have Kirk coming out of retirement. In TWoK, we see him still struggling with this, and the setup for TSFS. TSFS sees the death of Kirk's son and the destruction of the Enterprise. Voyage Home is a fun romp that sees the restoration of Spock, and Kirk restored to his proper rank of "Captain". Undiscovered Country was the swan song. Only Final Frontier had no real impact, and it's widely acknowledged as the worst of the lot (which is mostly down to bad writing IMO, but the disconnectedness didn't help).

The TNG movies had... none of that. Okay, they managed to destroy the Enterprise in Generations, but beyond that nothing was connected. Outside of introducing a shiny CG ship in FC, each movie stood very much alone.

There was also little connection to the Federation at large in the TNG films. In TOS we caught glimpses of life elsewhere in the Federation, and how the crew interacted with and impacted it, even if it was just a tantalizing tidbit here or there (the bar scene with McCoy, Starfleet Academy tidbits, Kirk's trial, etc.). In TNG, we lived either on the Enterprise or Planet of the Week; there was little to no view of how the crew fit in the grand scheme.

It made the movies seem small, where I always felt they should have given a more expansive view of the universe in which the characters lived.

That said, I still do enjoy watching them.

Except for the #$@! joystick on the bridge. That was just... dumb.

 

[JesterFace]

I have zero interest these days to watch any of the TNG films...

 

[BillJ]

I watched Generations tonight after not having seen it in many years. I gotta say, I thought it was fantastic. Really think that movie is underrated. I hate to constantly feel like a Trek contrarian, but I may even like Generations more than First Contact. I also watched FC tonight, and it's excellent, don't get me wrong. But Generations had a greater emotional resonance with me. Perhaps it was getting to see Kirk again. I may be 28, but I still consider him "my" Captain.

Many years ago, I really liked Generations. Tried to watch it not too long ago, and I was just incredibly bored.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Jumping back in here. I watched Nemesis last night, which was actually my first time seeing it. Wow. That movie was terrible. Didn't rise above its reputation for me the way Generations did. So much wrong with that movie. I like it even less than Final Frontier, which to me has some redeeming qualities (lovable camping scenes, McCoy's flashback, etc.) Nemesis's only redeeming quality that I can think of is that Patrick Stewart is just great in absolutely everything he's in, and he elevates every production he's a part of no matter how bad the script is or incompetent the director.

So, rating the TNG movies:

Generations - 8/10 (it's my opinion!!! lol)
First Contact - 7/10 (I'm so sorry)
Insurrection - 5/10 (has a good message, but meh)
Nemesis - 3/10 (let's never speak of this again)

 

[Lance]

The TNG movies fell short for me because they were just... collectively unimportant.

The TOS movies all had some level of long-term in-universe impact. In TMP, we have Kirk coming out of retirement. In TWoK, we see him still struggling with this, and the setup for TSFS. TSFS sees the death of Kirk's son and the destruction of the Enterprise. Voyage Home is a fun romp that sees the restoration of Spock, and Kirk restored to his proper rank of "Captain". Undiscovered Country was the swan song. Only Final Frontier had no real impact, and it's widely acknowledged as the worst of the lot (which is mostly down to bad writing IMO, but the disconnectedness didn't help).

The TNG movies had... none of that. Okay, they managed to destroy the Enterprise in Generations, but beyond that nothing was connected. Outside of introducing a shiny CG ship in FC, each movie stood very much alone.

Agreed. And consider, even, that the destruction of the Enterprise-D has no real impact upon the following movies either -- the Enterprise-E, beyond being a new set of surroundings to 'freshen up' the look a little bit, is in practical terms nothing more than a placeholder Starship in all three of the movies it appears in, that brings absolutely no difference to any of those stories than if it'd been another re-branded Galaxy Class, for example, or maybe literally the same ship. All it means is that the destruction of the 'D' in Generations looks all the more pointless and stupid in retrospect. If the Sovereign had been shown with something unique and special about it then they may have avoided that feeling of the 'E' being an anti-climax, but as it was the new ship meant nothing. It was just flashy window dressing. And that's not really enough.

There was also little connection to the Federation at large in the TNG films. In TOS we caught glimpses of life elsewhere in the Federation, and how the crew interacted with and impacted it, even if it was just a tantalizing tidbit here or there (the bar scene with McCoy, Starfleet Academy tidbits, Kirk's trial, etc.). In TNG, we lived either on the Enterprise or Planet of the Week; there was little to no view of how the crew fit in the grand scheme.

It made the movies seem small, where I always felt they should have given a more expansive view of the universe in which the characters lived.

The TOS movies felt like they expanded upon the (rather limited) hints we got about that universe in the original TV show. TOS was episodic, but the TOS movies were much broader and richer than the 'verse shown on TV. The TNG movies by contrast almost went the complete opposite direction: the TNG TV series had created this rich universe with intrigue and recurring characters and continuity and the such like, but the movies turned inwards on themselves and became about 'Planet Of The Week' adventure which actually made them feel smaller in scale compared to their television counterparts.

That said, I still do enjoy watching them.

Except for the #$@! joystick on the bridge. That was just... dumb.

I've actually defended the joystick on here in the past -- I think the idea of more 'tactile controls' to maneuver the ship isn't a bad one on paper, it's just the stupidity of how its portrayed on-screen that ruins it, popping up out of the floor and Riker, being so tall, having to lean forwards to even grab the bloody thing -- but, even in terms of its looks in permanently dates the movie to the 1990s, because it was such a PC gamestick. Maybe if they'd come up with something more futuristic. Or had it attached to the Captain's Chair instead of that bloody stupid podium in the middle of the bridge.

 

[Ion]

Maybe if they'd come up with something more futuristic. Or had it attached to the Captain's Chair instead of that bloody stupid podium in the middle of the bridge.

Or, you know... the helm station?

 

[Lance]

Or, you know... the helm station?

Exactly. The idea of a precision instrument for piloting the ship isn't necessarily a bad one, but it's the whole stupid way the movie has it rising out of the floor ( you half expect to hear a choral soundtrack as it makes its appearance ) followed by Riker needing to stand up to use the thing, but it's not tall enough for actor Jonathan Frakes so he just looks really awkward.... it's just clear they didn't give it enough thought.

 

[Ion]

The TNG movies by contrast almost went the complete opposite direction: the TNG TV series had created this rich universe with intrigue and recurring characters and continuity and the such like, but the movies turned inwards on themselves and became about 'Planet Of The Week' adventure which actually made them feel smaller in scale compared to their television counterparts.

That is it exactly, btw. They could have been so much more than they were. Nemesis actually had the most potential in broad strokes, but the whole "Data and Picard both have twins in the same movie, in the most unbelievable way possible" deal really ruined it for me. It would have played orders of magnitude better if they had made the bad guy some random Romulan terrorist who wanted to destroy the Federation to elevate his position in the Romulan military.

The could have even tied it into the Unification storyline. There were real possibilities there, but instead they pulled something out of–

Never mind. I digress.

Exactly. The idea of a precision instrument for piloting the ship isn't necessarily a bad one, but it's the whole stupid way the movie has it rising out of the floor ( you half expect to hear a choral soundtrack as it makes its appearance ) followed by Riker needing to stand up to use the thing, but it's not tall enough for actor Jonathan Frakes so he just looks really awkward.... it's just clear they didn't give it enough thought.

The only way I've been able to satisfactorily explain it is that Starfleet requires their bridges to be unsafe to keep their officers on their toes. Since they finally added seat belts, they had to make the pilot stand... in the middle of the bridge... with no support... while in combat. That redressed the balance.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The cast had aged out of their roles by the time Nemesis was shot. Even in Insurrection, the girls - Gates and Marina - looked very lovely. The cinematography in Nemesis, however, flattered no one. The entire cast looked decrepit, even the androids. The ANDROIDS, even!!! So ... no ... it didn't matter what Nemesis was about, it should've never been made, in the first instance. It was time for letting go.

And that's alright - as the series finale reminds us, "All Good Things" must end. It would've been nice, though, to let us say 'good-bye' to Troi, without seeing her getting accosted and violated. I could've done without that. Just let everyone have a good time, making a fun movie and end on a high note. But OH WELL ...

 

[Lance]

The cast had aged out of their roles by the time Nemesis was shot. Even in Insurrection, the girls - Gates and Marina - looked very lovely. The cinematography in Nemesis, however, flattered no one. The entire cast looked decrepit, even the androids. The ANDROIDS, even!!! So ... no ... it didn't matter what Nemesis was about, it should've never been made, in the first instance. It was time for letting go.

And that's alright - as the series finale reminds us, "All Good Things" must end. It would've been nice, though, to let us say 'good-bye' to Troi, without seeing her getting accosted and violated. I could've done without that. Just let everyone have a good time, making a fun movie and end on a high note. But OH WELL ...

I definitely think there's something of a fatigue about the cast in 'Nemesis', but I've usually ascribed that to the longer than average time between movies. The first three TNG features came within 2 years of each other, and were all still in the "slipstream" of riding TNG's 7 season success on TV, but the lag of 4 years between 'Insurrection' and 'Nemesis' places a certain distance between it and the rest of the series. The momentum just wasn't there anymore.

 

[N7operative84]

In addition, TNG films didn’t have fun like TOS films. Not counting First Contact as a whole and Star Trek Insurrection’s Murray Abraham as Ru'afo films weren’t exciting or had interesting characters or moments. First Contact was the only Trek film that really put something really on the line and had interesting characters all around.

Myself, I enjoyed every TNG movie minus Generations. I feel that Generation was a ok film, but too much non sense happened. Such as Kirk in the film, given that Undiscovered Country wrapped up TOS series up perfectly, Kirk dying and how Picard left him buried on that planet, how Picard got beat up by Soren the way he did, and the Enterprise getting destroyed the way it did, by an old Bird Of Prey. Even without shields the Enterprise should have done moderate to extreme damage to it. Not a great supporting cast (no one really new in terms of TNG characters to interactive with) and the story was average at best.

Star Trek Insurrection was just too much of run of the mill story. As I mentioned above, the villain was the only reason why somewhat enjoyed to film. I wish though, he would have had more threat to the Federation. The planet parts of the film were dull.

I saw Nemesis in theaters when it came out and recently on BBC America and have mixed feelings about it. It is weak as both as a Trek film and a film in general. It was depended too on Trek’s past and the fact that was a rehash of The Wraith of Kahn. Way too much time was spent on the Enterprise – E. The chase part was silly. Overall, like Redlettermedia said it best, it was too dark and depressing.

The Romulans have been my favorite rival race to the Federation. Some characters were wasted such as Donatra (hottie Romulan), sexy Diana Myer must be commended, what a waste of character. Nemesis could have been a interesting Romulan themed Trek film, that could have been the event could have started the end of the Cold War between the Feds and the Romulans. Sort of like Undiscovered Country.

 

[Paradise City]

There's alot of majesty in the TOS films. Hardened, seasoned cast-iron friends put through the mill in serious ways and coming out stronger. Kirk loses his son, there's a painful odyssey to win Spock back from death, they lose the Enterprise (a VERY poignant moment and we forget just how traumatic that was because these days we seem to destroy the Enterprise every second movie!)

Very deep friendships affirmed there and these are people we as audiences are familiar with over decades. There's a majesty to those films.

So the TNG outings were always going to suffer in that shadow.

Generations could've brought in that majesty and they did to a degree with those scenes on Ent-B. But really, with that film, you where dealing with TNG writers who knew and wrote easily for a TNG crew but were at a loss to do something with Kirk. So much so that Spot the Cat ultimately upstages Kirk as we conclude the film!

Insurrection reminds me of a good TV movie and I'm happy with it seen on those terms. But it's got none of the sweeping epic that befits a cinematic outing. It's a very, very underwhelming film seen on those terms.

First Contact and Nemesis: I don't mind either personally. I go against the grain in that I don't find Nemesis that bothersome. But they remind me of Star Trek Voyager cliff-hangers. They are at that kind of level. Nemesis just rewashed some stuff they did before and gathered it into one film. Neither transcends episodic Trek at all. They are underwhelming for those reasons.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

these days we seem to destroy the Enterprise every second movie!)

The Enterprise has only been destroyed in 3 of the 13 movies. It does take a beating in almost every Trek film, but a lot of the visual display of ship damage in the films is due to higher budgets -- in plenty of Trek episodes we hear about "damage on deck 12 and 34" or "heavy casualties" etc., we just don't see it.

Granted, the destruction of the Enterprise in TSFS felt more wrenching and shocking. I think a big reason for that is the direction and writing. Kirk is clearly pained by having to destroy his ship. I didn't feel that from Picard and Riker in Generations. They seemed to shrug it off. Beyond's destruction was somewhere in between. Had an emotional impact but with much less history riding behind it.

 

[Paradise City]

The Enterprise has only been destroyed in 3 of the 13 movies. It does take a beating in almost every Trek film, but a lot of the visual display of ship damage in the films is due to higher budgets -- in plenty of Trek episodes we hear about "damage on deck 12 and 34" or "heavy casualties" etc., we just don't see it.

Granted, the destruction of the Enterprise in TSFS felt more wrenching and shocking. I think a big reason for that is the direction and writing. Kirk is clearly pained by having to destroy his ship. I didn't feel that from Picard and Riker in Generations. They seemed to shrug it off. Beyond's destruction was somewhere in between. Had an emotional impact but with much less history riding behind it.

Sure, sure. But it seems like it's destroyed alot. They are quite promiscuous in Cause & Effect, lol. Big gaping holes in Nemesis, First Contact and in Generations with B. And on it goes.

I'm not having a go, btw. You get your hands on newer and newer FX tech you don't refuse to thrill the audience with it. But fantastic damage and blowing ships up doesn't come close to the thrill of doing it the first time in an era where FX was generally agricultural and it was genuinely tough to execute that kind of stuff.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Sure, sure. But it seems like it's destroyed alot. They are quite promiscuous in Cause & Effect, lol. Big gaping holes in Nemesis, First Contact and in Generations with B. And on it goes.

I'm not having a go, btw. You get your hands on newer and newer FX tech you don't refuse to thrill the audience with it. But fantastic damage and blowing ships up doesn't come close to the thrill of doing it the first time in an era where FX was generally agricultural and it was genuinely tough to execute that kind of stuff.

I see your point and I think I agree. Much as I love the space battles in the reboots, for my money, the last battle sequence of TUC and the tactical back-and-forth in WoK are the finest space battles in Trek history.The others have their merits too, but not the same memorable punch. The destruction of the Enterprise-D holds up well and is very exciting, but it's mostly spectacle and not much tension.

 

[Lance]

Insurrection reminds me of a good TV movie and I'm happy with it seen on those terms. But it's got none of the sweeping epic that befits a cinematic outing. It's a very, very underwhelming film seen on those terms.

The ultimate irony is that everybody says things like "Insurrection felt cheap" or that it was "Like a 2-part episode of the TV show". A lot of that is a lack of ambition in the story. INS actually had more money thrown at it than 'First Contact', but all of that money was burned away on location filming. And yes, while there are a couple impressive shots once they start taking the villagers out into the mountains, the overall effect feels just about the same as when the TV show took a skeleton crew out to film for two days on the Hollywood Hills for a fraction of the money or whatever. INS had a larger budget, but the money just doesn't translate to the screen. It ends up looking dirt cheap when it was actually very expensive to schlep everyone out to actual locations to film the village scenes. That's almost unforgivable.

The oft heard criticism that it felt like a TV production, usually said dismissively, always makes me chuckle because I just think, "TNG's two-parters were often more theatrical, and they were made for TV on a shoestring budget." But why? Because they had more ambition . The TNG movies just weren't ambitious.

 

[Vger23]

Insurrection is the only film in the entire franchise that I actively dislike.

That said, I think the other TNG movies all have their moments and enjoyable / exciting elements, and I revisit them all frequently.

1. FC
2. NEM
3. GEN
4. INS

 

[JesterFace]

Star Trek - The Next Generation, for me:

Beginning - Encounter at Farpoint
End - All Good Things...

I don't watch the films just because it's TNG... but simply because I don't like them.

 

[elamigodemiamiga]

generations - meh. 6/10, not classic,not shit.

first contact - 10/10 imho the best trek film.

insurrection - 4/10 - weird concept

nemesis 4/10 - bad concept

 

[JesterFace]

Over time, I've got the impression that 'First Contact' is the only TNG movie which people really like... All the other ones are tolerated because it's TNG.