And? Each person can separate it however they like. There are no rules.
TNG changed the Timeline.
- Thread starter HotRod
- Start date
And? Each person can separate it however they like. There are no rules.
I mean Parallels pretty much establishes this idea.
But that undoes most fan understanding of aliens.
Star Trek has long established that there is a difference between an "altered" timeline and an "alternate" timeline. The Mirror Universe, the Kelvin universe, the 80,000 or so examples that we saw in Parallels; those are alternate universes. They are separate and distinct from the Prime Timeline, having split off from a presumed baseline timeline at some point. We even see the point that this happens for the Kelvin universe.
An altered timeline is when any changes are confined within a single timeline without creating an alternate branch. The Prime Universe is a clear example of an altered universe rather than an alternate one. The City on the Edge of Forever, Yesterday Enterprise, Past Tense, Star Trek First Contact and Picard season 2 are examples of the timeline being changed but not branching out into a new reality. And Past Tense is evidence that even a timeline that is "restored" may still not be 100% as it was before the alterations.
Given what Strange New World has revealed about the Temporal Cold War, one can extrapolate that the timeline we saw in The Original Series was the timeline before it was altered by enemy time agents, while what we saw in The Next Generation onward (perhaps even the TOS movies) is the timeline after the dust settled on the Temporal Cold War.
Easy peasy.
An altered timeline is when any changes are confined within a single timeline without creating an alternate branch. The Prime Universe is a clear example of an altered universe rather than an alternate one. The City on the Edge of Forever, Yesterday Enterprise, Past Tense, Star Trek First Contact and Picard season 2 are examples of the timeline being changed but not branching out into a new reality. And Past Tense is evidence that even a timeline that is "restored" may still not be 100% as it was before the alterations.
Given what Strange New World has revealed about the Temporal Cold War, one can extrapolate that the timeline we saw in The Original Series was the timeline before it was altered by enemy time agents, while what we saw in The Next Generation onward (perhaps even the TOS movies) is the timeline after the dust settled on the Temporal Cold War.
Easy peasy.
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Yep. It's entirely possible that very similar events happen in each universe.
Honestly, I had always felt that each of the five CBSTrek shows took place in their own separate continuities, even apart from the 'prime universe' of ENT/TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/movies, since at first they rarely tried to even be in continuity with each other, much less with the previous shows. But over time I've changed my tune. I feel that PIC, PRO and LDS take place in the prime timeline, but DSC and SNW do not. And again, before anyone says 'but there was a SNW/LDS crossover,' as far as I'm concerned, Boimler and Mariner only saw what that portal (and the show producers) wanted them to see, and nothing they did in the past changed the timeline because it wasn't their past, it was the past of a different, but similar timeline. That's a far better hypothesis, in my opinion, than saying that the events (and visual continuity) of TOS were overwritten by what we see in DSC/SNW. YMMV.
How do you know that what you're claiming to be altered timelines don't really involve alternate timelines? It seems to me that we have no proof either way. Certainly, "Past Tense" implies that the timeline Our Heroes find themselves in at the end of the episode isn't quite the one they started off in.Star Trek has long established that there is a difference between an "altered" timeline and an "alternate" timeline. The Mirror Universe, the Kelvin universe, the 80,000 or so examples that we saw in Parallels; those are alternate universes. They are separate and distinct from the Prime Timeline, having split off from a presumed baseline timeline at some point. We even see the point that this happens for the Kelvin universe.
An altered timeline is when any changes are confined within a single timeline without creating an alternate branch. The Prime Universe is a clear example of an altered universe rather than an alternate one. The City on the Edge of Forever, Yesterday Enterprise, Past Tense, Star Trek First Contact and Picard season 2 are examples of the timeline being changed but not branching out into a new reality. And Past Tense is evidence that even a timeline that is "restored" may still not be 100% as it was before the alterations.
Given what Strange New World has revealed about the Temporal Cold War, one can extrapolate that the timeline we saw in The Original Series was the timeline before it was altered by enemy time agents, while what we saw in The Next Generation onward (perhaps even the TOS movies) is the timeline after the dust settled on the Temporal Cold War.
Easy peasy.
I also don't think it's ever established either way whether timelines are truly created or destroyed (which would seem to be a physics problem), or whether all timelines are just tracks running in parallel to each other and what we perceive as the 'creation' or 'destruction' of an alternate timeline is just people jumping between the tracks.
If
But my idea gets constantly rejected and told that I'm flat-out wrong, while other similar concepts get a pass. Just an observation. Shrug.
If we were going with the multiverse concept, I think that TOS, TAS and TMP would be one, TWOK thru Nemesis/Picard would be one, the Kelvinverse would be one, and ENT, DSC and SNW would be one.
i think a dynamically changing single timeline makes more sense.
But my idea gets constantly rejected and told that I'm flat-out wrong, while other similar concepts get a pass. Just an observation. Shrug.
If we were going with the multiverse concept, I think that TOS, TAS and TMP would be one, TWOK thru Nemesis/Picard would be one, the Kelvinverse would be one, and ENT, DSC and SNW would be one.
i think a dynamically changing single timeline makes more sense.
Star Trek has long established that there is a difference between an "altered" timeline and an "alternate" timeline. The Mirror Universe, the Kelvin universe, the 80,000 or so examples that we saw in Parallels; those are alternate universes. They are separate and distinct from the Prime Timeline, having split off from a presumed baseline timeline at some point. We even see the point that this happens for the Kelvin universe.
An altered timeline is when any changes are confined within a single timeline without creating an alternate branch. The Prime Universe is a clear example of an altered universe rather than an alternate one. The City on the Edge of Forever, Yesterday Enterprise, Past Tense, Star Trek First Contact and Picard season 2 are examples of the timeline being changed but not branching out into a new reality. And Past Tense is evidence that even a timeline that is "restored" may still not be 100% as it was before the alterations.
Given what Strange New World has revealed about the Temporal Cold War, one can extrapolate that the timeline we saw in The Original Series was the timeline before it was altered by enemy time agents, while what we saw in The Next Generation onward (perhaps even the TOS movies) is the timeline after the dust settled on the Temporal Cold War.
Easy peasy.
I agree pretty completely, but as a distinction, I think we were just wrong about the Kelvin, because it SHOULD have been a rewrite, so either it 1) has an ending point we haven't seen yet or 2) was a complete alternate like parallels and the mirror.
What you call alternate timelines, I call alternate universes. I don't think time travel ever spawns a new physical universe. Physical universes always existed in the multiverse, and would include the mirror and the kelvin, and Spock went thru both time and universal barriers, going to an alternate AND rewriting its timeline via his interference.
In each separate physical universe, there is only one timeline, that can be rewritten repeatedly thru outside interference, but none of that will create a new physical space that coexists at the same time.
Well, I don't "know" anything about it because it's all made up and nonsensical. However, it does seem apparent to me that if a change to the past created an alternate timeline, then the future of that timeline would be unaffected. The Borg went back in time in First Contact, and the changes that they made were immediately apparent in the future, affecting only the Prime Timeline. When Nero went back in time, he created a new timeline, leaving the Prime Timeline unaffected. That seems to be a pretty fundamental difference to me.
YMMV.
With your FC example, what Our Heroes were seeing could be the result of already being in an alternate timeline though.
Our Heroes saw the changes to the timeline before traveling to the past. It was their own universe that changed around them, with the Enterprise only being protected by the temporal technobabble.
Was what they were seeing their own universe, or the alternate timeline they'd be in if they weren't protected?
If it wasn't their own timeline/universe being altered, then why would they have ended up in another timeline/universe? they would have just stayed where they were. I guess I don't understand the question?
Sure. If you’re okay with things being overwritten. That is your call to make. For me? I prefer it all remain as the original authors created it. So, a multiverse makes the most sense to me.
There isn’t a “wrong” answer, just what you’re comfortable with.
“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”
(Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe)
There are two ways that what we see, with the E-E in the temporal wake, can be perceived:
1) They are in the altered Primeverse but protected by the temporal wake (or they likely would have ceased to exist).
2) The Borg entered an alternate timeline when they created their portal and the E-E, by being in their temporal wake, has also entered that timeline.
If it were an alternate timeline that already existed, then why did the Borg have to go back to change history?
Anyway, I'm done with the nitpicking as it is all make-believe nonsensical pseudoscience anyway. I stated my opinion of how I believe it works. I believe that is the simplest way to explain it, and simplest usually works best. With apologies, I believe that your theories just raise more questions and complicates the equation more than is necessary. YMMV.
And... I'm out.
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And... I'm back in. 
There's also the Regeneration of it all. If The Borg went to or created an alternate universe/timeline, then why would the remains of the Borg ship be on Earth Prime to trouble the crew of the NX01 100 years later? See? It just raises more questions.
And... I'm out again.
There's also the Regeneration of it all. If The Borg went to or created an alternate universe/timeline, then why would the remains of the Borg ship be on Earth Prime to trouble the crew of the NX01 100 years later? See? It just raises more questions.
And... I'm out again.
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