TMP's Transporter Accident on Loop is the Stuff of Nightmares

[J.T.B.]

Decker wasn't demoted for no reason. Kirk demotes him because he believes he has more experience than Decker at commanding a starship, which he does.

I find it very doubtful that Kirk demoted Decker on his own authority, more likely it was part of the orders from Nogura. How it was handled was absurd, though. More realistically, Nogura or someone else senior to Kirk would have informed Decker before Kirk showed up, then Kirk and Decker could meet in private to discuss the transfer of command. Dramatic license, I know, but dumb.

 

[fireproof78]

I find it very doubtful that Kirk demoted Decker on his own authority, more likely it was part of the orders from Nogura. How it was handled was absurd, though. More realistically, Nogura or someone else senior to Kirk would have informed Decker before Kirk showed up, then Kirk and Decker could meet in private to discuss the transfer of command. Dramatic license, I know, but dumb.

Indeed, yes. The film handled it in the most dramatic way possible and ended up making it all look quite petty and bad.

 

[Cryogenic]

I find it very doubtful that Kirk demoted Decker on his own authority, more likely it was part of the orders from Nogura. How it was handled was absurd, though. More realistically, Nogura or someone else senior to Kirk would have informed Decker before Kirk showed up, then Kirk and Decker could meet in private to discuss the transfer of command. Dramatic license, I know, but dumb.

I've had worse experiences in most of my jobs.

But corporate capitalism rocks!

 

[fireproof78]

I've had worse experiences in most of my jobs.

But corporate capitalism rocks!

I've had worst experiences at a non profit.

Prefer capitalism some days.

 

[Cryogenic]

I've had worst experiences at a non profit.

Prefer capitalism some days.

I do feel bad for you. But non-profit exists within the superstructure of capitalism.

 

[fireproof78]

I do feel bad for you. But non-profit exists within the superstructure of capitalism.

It's the job I chose. It's all good.

 

[Cryogenic]

It's the job I chose. It's all good.

No-one chooses anything under capitalism. The system maintains itself by offering the illusion of choice.

 

[fireproof78]

No-one chooses anything under capitalism. The system maintains itself by offering the illusion of choice.

Then I maintain the illusion of personal choice through working with a non profit to improve the other people's lives.

 

[Cryogenic]

Then I maintain the illusion of personal choice through working with a non profit to improve the other people's lives.

You're probably lining some rich person's pockets, too. That's often how non-profits work in practice. Don't let the badge fool you. Someone always gains at the expense of others. Charities are notoriously mismanaged.

 

[fireproof78]

You're probably lining some rich person's pockets, too. That's often how non-profits work in practice. Don't let the badge fool you. Someone always gains at the expense of others. Charities are notoriously mismanaged.

Fair point and I'm aware. But people need what I'm providing so...I work with what I got.

 

[Cryogenic]

Fair point and I'm aware. But people need what I'm providing so...I work with what I got.

We must all build the lives and the "selves" we're comfortable living within.

 

[fireproof78]

We must all build the lives and the "selves" we're comfortable living within.

Never ending adventure that.

 

[Cryogenic]

Never ending adventure that.

Very true.

 

[NCC-73515]

Kirk public shames and demotes an officer for no other reason than ego. He puts people at risk because he doesn't know the ship the way Decker does.

Kirk in 09 is trained but inexperienced. He is a rebel without a cause so his behavior is more understandable at least to me. Kirk's behavior, especially coming from TOS to TMP, is more apparent to be out of character and completely uncalled far. Should have been demoted for abusing his command.

TMP Kirk grew up with a good dad and had a great career. Then he lost touch with everyone and everything that mattered to him, and he got sour at his desk job. He recovered when he was reunited with Bones and Spock.
STXI Kirk grew up with an abusive stepdad and no direction or goals. He got back on track much later when Pike reminded him of his potential and dared him to follow his dad.

I'm glad many people like him. For me it is way to jarring to be enjoyable.

I hated him so much for the arrogant way he shoved his hand in front of Bones twice when he didn't take it immediately. But everyone in TMP is a little strange compared to how they are before and after

 

[fireproof78]

I hated him so much for the arrogant way he shoved his hand in front of Bones twice when he didn't take it immediately. But everyone in TMP is a little strange compared to how they are before and after

Yes they are. And it's too jarring to be enjoyable. And there are times, like the transporter, were it feels like the movie is inflicting pain because...because they can. It's a weird and uncomfortable movie, mixed with a lot of large ideas and sweeping landscapes.

I will applaud the film for being such a distinctive entry in terms of presentation and ideas. But, for me, films and TV are about characters and I just struggle so hard to be with those characters.

 

[Cryogenic]

I hated him so much for the arrogant way he shoved his hand in front of Bones twice when he didn't take it immediately. But everyone in TMP is a little strange compared to how they are before and after

I don't see arrogance in that moment, so much as urgency -- even desperation. Kirk is literally pleading with McCoy and telling him he "needs" him. While the hand thrust is very dramatic and pure Shatner, along with the intonation, I think it's a very human moment for Kirk and shows him as vulnerable. The warm smile and deep sense of relief a moment later, when McCoy takes his hand, says it all to me. Kirk is genuinely glad to have his friend and confidante back. I think it's the first time we really see Kirk looking amused and defused for a brief but poignant moment.

Yes they are. And it's too jarring to be enjoyable. And there are times, like the transporter, were it feels like the movie is inflicting pain because...because they can. It's a weird and uncomfortable movie, mixed with a lot of large ideas and sweeping landscapes.

This is quite the apt description. I like TMP because it has a dissonant quality about it. Something you can't quite put your finger on. And yes, it also has a big feel in general, and seems infused with lyrical beauty and philosophical depth.

I will applaud the film for being such a distinctive entry in terms of presentation and ideas. But, for me, films and TV are about characters and I just struggle so hard to be with those characters.

I think TMP does a very good job by its characters. I like these characters. If the characters start off a bit cold and uptight, that's fine with me. I don't mind distance when there's a context. Plus, their chilly personas at the beginning contrast nicely with their gradual blossoming across the movie. Once they start journeying into V'Ger, they're also journeying into themselves and they gradually rediscover who they are.

 

[fireproof78]

I think TMP does a very good job by its characters. I like these characters. If the characters start off a bit cold and uptight, that's fine with me. I don't mind distance when there's a context. Plus, their chilly personas at the beginning contrast nicely with their gradual blossoming across the movie. Once they start journeying into V'Ger, they're also journeying into themselves and they gradually rediscover who they are.

Unfortunately that's too dissonant for me to enjoy. It basically feels extremely mean spirited to shove Kirk in to an unwinnable situation and killing people.

 

[Smellmet]

I think TMP does a very good job by its characters. I like these characters. If the characters start off a bit cold and uptight, that's fine with me. I don't mind distance when there's a context. Plus, their chilly personas at the beginning contrast nicely with their gradual blossoming across the movie. Once they start journeying into V'Ger, they're also journeying into themselves and they gradually rediscover who they are.

Very well put, and is exactly how I feel about the characters in this movie. I still can't really tell if it's by accident or design, but it works for me.

 

[jackoverfull]

Kirk's behavior, especially coming from TOS to TMP, is more apparent to be out of character and completely uncalled far. Should have been demoted for abusing his command.

perhaps he was trying to get a demotion, since he hated being an admiral (just kidding).

 

[Pauln6]

Very well put, and is exactly how I feel about the characters in this movie. I still can't really tell if it's by accident or design, but it works for me.

Me too, although it's worth pointing out that it's only the big 3 that struggle with issues in the movie. Although Decker gets bounced around, he stays pretty much on point, or at least about as much as TOS Kirk.

The supporting cast are affable and efficient. What we're missing is more visible interaction between them. A conversation between Chapel and Spock might have been nice. Or Chapel and McCoy for that matter. Or Sulu and anyone. His goofy geniality is great for other characters to bounce off normally even if his Ilia scene fell a bit flat.