TMP-era Bridges

[Christopher]

On the other hand, there is no definitive explanation for what those pipes behind that grill are supposed to actually be or do, therefore, there's no necessity that the thing has to be a long parallel structure "in real life." All we have to go on is what we see on screen or, if we'd rather, some idea of what the creator's original intent had been....

"Necessity?" What a strange standard. Why would you want it not to be? How is that in any way desirable? It was an attempt to make the engineering complex seem vaster than was possible with the available soundstage space. That's a good thing -- what possible reason could there be to resist it?

Besides, there is some canonical support for the interpretation that it's a long parallel structure -- specifically, the Constitution-class schematic featured onscreen in ENT: "In a Mirror, Darkly," which interprets the triangular pipes as the plasma conduits that connect directly to the warp nacelles. Granted, that's barely discernible in the 3D version shown onscreen, but it makes enormously more sense than FJ's interpretation of them as part of the impulse engines, because we know from multiple episodes that the dilithium crystals can be accessed from the component in the middle of the floor directly in front of the cathedral, and there's no reason there'd be dilithium crystals in the impulse engine room! It's logical that the cathedral is part of the warp engine assembly, logical that the "pipes" are the conduits going into the nacelles, and if that's the case, then they need to be parallel rather than tapered. It just makes more sense that way.

 

[Mytran]

The problem with the tubes being under the pylons (and taking the FP set at its "perception intended" length) is that one does not fit inside the other.

To be more precise, the FP "cathedral tubes" represent a structure around 100 feet long.
This is a huge, cavernous engine component, one that simply could not fit in the area under the pylons (unless the ship were increased in size to several thousand feet long).

Locating the Engine Room adjacent to the pylons is a nice idea but one that requires us to ignore both the FP errors (which I can live with if I squint) and the whole structure which the FP illusion is supposed to represent, redesigning it almost entirely: that one is a bit much, IMO.

 

[Christopher]

To be more precise, the FP "cathedral tubes" represent a structure around 100 feet long.
This is a huge, cavernous engine component, one that simply could not fit in the area under the pylons (unless the ship were increased in size to several thousand feet long).

It's not that huge. The formula for angular size is θ = 2 tan^-1 (h/2D), where h is the object's actual size and D is the distance. Measuring from the set blueprints shows that the rear of the "cathedral" piece was about 1/3 as wide as the front, so in order for its actual size (h) to be 3 times greater, then it would have to be 3 times as far away (D) to get the same angular size. I can't find an actual scale on my set blueprints, but something 3 times the depth of the "cathedral" piece would only be about 25% longer than the depth of the main engineering set itself from the entrance door to the grille -- or about equal to the distance from the corridor intersection outside to the grille. It's also about equal to the maximum width of the bridge set including the turbolift car. So we're not talking something truly immense here.

Granted, the Drexler cutaway shows the cathedral assembly being only about 2/3 that deep, but it's in the ballpark. Anyway, the precise math doesn't matter, since this is just a piece of design meant to convey a visceral impression to a television viewer. And there are plenty of other Trek sets where the proportions don't quite match, like the shuttlecraft interior/exterior, the TMP rec room, the Delta Flyer interior, etc.

 

[Timo]

Yet we don't have to live with most of those problems. The Rec Deck can be relocated to where it does fit, say.

By abandoning the idea of that engineering component being a large one forced into shorter perspective, we can make Engineering much larger. After all, it's supposed to be a vast maze, not a room with a view. And that's nicely accomplished by taking the constantly changing layout of the engineering set and interpreting that as representing multiple slightly different rooms, each adjoining an important tri-isophasic frammistat and some featuring access to the dilithium conveyor that serves the big sphere of a reactor somewhere belowdecks, right next to the cylindrar tanks that... Uh, where was I?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lance]

Yes, the appearance and ambient background noise of interior spacecraft sets tended to vary from ship to ship; take a look at "The Ultimate Computer" as an example. Lexington's bridge set borrows the bridge sounds from "Where No Man Has Gone Before", and the TOS-R version even slightly rounded the corners of the bridge viewer to extend this familiarity. A nice little touch.

It makes sense to me that the bridge modules would all vary to some degree or other, as different ships likely had refits at different times and for different reasons. So, while all bridge modules were similar at some point in their life span, as the fleet got older there was more obvious divergences in the various ship configurations.


On the question of the TMP bridge (and its endless reconfigurations throughout the years), one thing I've always wondered about: it's clear that the Equinox and the Prometheus both share the same set, albeit rearranged. But my question is, is this set in itself a redress of elements of the old TMP bridge set? Had it long since been cannibalised to the point of almost non-recognition by then? Or was it a new custom-built generic bridge set?

 

[lennier1]

Yes, the appearance and ambient background noise of interior spacecraft sets tended to vary from ship to ship; take a look at "The Ultimate Computer" as an example. Lexington's bridge set borrows the bridge sounds from "Where No Man Has Gone Before", and the TOS-R version even slightly rounded the corners of the bridge viewer to extend this familiarity. A nice little touch.

It makes sense to me that the bridge modules would all vary to some degree or other, as different ships likely had refits at different times and for different reasons. So, while all bridge modules were similar at some point in their life span, as the fleet got older there was more obvious divergences in the various ship configurations.


On the question of the TMP bridge (and its endless reconfigurations throughout the years), one thing I've always wondered about: it's clear that the Equinox and the Prometheus both share the same set, albeit rearranged. But my question is, is this set in itself a redress of elements of the old TMP bridge set? Had it long since been cannibalised to the point of almost non-recognition by then? Or was it a new custom-built generic bridge set?

Almost no parts of the original TMP bridge set survived until then. What you're thinking of are mostly parts from the ST5 bridge (and later pieces built based on those plans), which have been re-used over and over again (the layers of paint on some pieces must have been a quarter of an inch thick by the end). It starts with the usual "bridge of the week" on TNG and ends with the side consoles and turbolift on the Ent-E bridge in Nemesis and several alien set on ENT.

 

[Christopher]

On the question of the TMP bridge (and its endless reconfigurations throughout the years), one thing I've always wondered about: it's clear that the Equinox and the Prometheus both share the same set, albeit rearranged. But my question is, is this set in itself a redress of elements of the old TMP bridge set? Had it long since been cannibalised to the point of almost non-recognition by then? Or was it a new custom-built generic bridge set?

As I mentioned on the first page of this thread, those bridges were redresses of the Enterprise-A bridge built for Star Trek V.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-A)#Background_information

 

[Lance]

Oh yeah, now that you both mention it, I can definitely see the silhouette of the Enterprise-A bridge there.

 

[Lance]

On the topic of the lack of doors on the TOS bridge, and I forget who it was (it might even have been FJ), but I remember somebody applying the retcon that maybe there was a "kick out panel" in one of the frontal walls that allowed access to an emergency exit.

I never liked the idea espoused by Roddenberry and others that they added an extra turbolift because people kept asking "What if the turbolift gets stuck?". In the event of a massive ship-wide power failure, both lifts would get stuck anyway, isolating the bridge regardless of how many turbo elevators go to it (as we saw in TNG: "Disaster"). So a more manual method of getting from the bridge in such an emergency makes a lot of sense.

Of course, that is not to preclude that there are other, more perfectly logical reasons to have multiple elevators going to the command center of the ship.

My teenage mind always rationalized the second door in TAS leading to some sort of corridor or airlock arrangement anyway, even before I saw FJ's blueprints. IIRC the only time we ever saw someone enter or exit through it was in "One Of Our Planets Is Missing", where Kirk arrives through that door after his conference call with Bob Wesley, which might imply that there's some kind of ready room or Captain's Office there too (some sources have also added such things to the TMP era bridges).

 

[Trimm]

I don't have my copy of Mr. Scott's Guide handy, but doesn't the diagram of the bridge there also show an emergency floor hatch or somesuch? Surely the TOS Ent could have something similar to supplement the turbolift.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I believe so, right in front of the nav/helm console. Don't think it actually ever existed on the set, though.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

IIRC the only time we ever saw someone enter or exit through it was in "One Of Our Planets Is Missing", where Kirk arrives through that door after his conference call with Bob Wesley, which might imply that there's some kind of ready room or Captain's Office there too (some sources have also added such things to the TMP era bridges).

That didn't happen.

 

[Ithekro]

The emergency hatch was a ladder to B deck, which if I recall correctly, in the Mr. Scott's Guide, was the main security office.

The text from that book would have made several TNG stories improbable. If security is on B deck, the idea was that they could screen the turbolift and nuetralized any weapons, even if someone manage to override them and got to the bridge. A lot of the safety features are thought out in that book, where almost none of it is used or even practical in TNG stories.

 

[Mytran]

One of my faves was that the transporter emitters could be isolated from the rest of the shield system, allowing for beaming even when the shields were up on the rest of the ship. This would effectively destroyed many dramatic situations in TNG!

As for manual access to the TOS bridge, I much prefer a hatch in the floor to the idea of kick-out panels. After all, if you're going to have sections of the wall that can be removed by force, why not just attach a hinge and door handle for easy use?

 

[Lance]

IIRC the only time we ever saw someone enter or exit through it was in "One Of Our Planets Is Missing", where Kirk arrives through that door after his conference call with Bob Wesley, which might imply that there's some kind of ready room or Captain's Office there too (some sources have also added such things to the TMP era bridges).

That didn't happen.

You're right actually. My memory was cheating me.

Was there a time we ever saw it used? Because I'm sure I remember seeing it open at least once...

 

[Mytran]

I seem to remember McCoy and Kirk crossing paths as one goes in, one out of the secondary doors.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't recall any use of the secondary bridge doors in TAS, but that doesn't mean it never happened. I still haven't rewatched all 22 episodes since getting my DVDs!*

I do know that there is at least one time when we get a peak at what's behind the doors, but evidently that's due to one of the infamous Filmation errors, I'd say when they forgot the door elements in the cel stack: screencap. In my opinion, it looks like a turbo elevator.

* - Please don't tell anyone!

 

[drt]

I'd seen that screencap before, but never noticed that Scotty(?) seems to be missing his right leg.

 

[Timo]

If security is on B deck

This seems to be a misreading of "The Enterprise Incident". The author appears to have decided that this TOS episode establishes the brig as being on B Deck because the Romulan commandress was taken to Deck 2 at the conclusion of the story. Yet the destination was not the brig - this was a misconception by the Romulan. Instead, Deck 2 housed guest quarters, as is apt for the superstructure of the ship by naval precedent.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Right. I remember seeing a blueprint with VIP guest quarters being situated near the bridge, which is probably where she was taken.

--Sran