TMP-era Bridges

[137th Gebirg]

Look at Voyager's shuttlebay doors. With the shuttle's computers or the bay's tractor beam emitters guiding you in you don't seem to really need that much clearance.

Having owned both the Revellogram Voyager kit (1:677 scale), as well as a slightly larger scaled vacuform SFSM Oberth kit (1:537), the Voyager's shuttlebay door in the slightly-smaller scale is about 4 times the size of any of the three slightly-larger scale Oberth doors around the saucer. If you stacked each of those doors 2x2, you would get the Voyager door (which means it's actually bigger by comparison if the Voyager was done in 1:537 - potentially bigger than the Connie refit doors, which were VERY big). Like JES says, a work bee is about all you could fit in there. Might not even have enough clearance for a travel pod (come to think of it, where the hell are the universal travel pod docking ports on an Oberth anyway?) Maybe that's the sole purpose of those doors on the Oberth, strictly for the loading of cargo and not a fully-functional landing bay as Timo suggested.

 

[Timo]

..Those might be mere sensor ports, too.

Or then actual windows, nuTrek style. Supposedly, the bridge of an Oberth is so close to some (near-)vertical outer wall that when you blow the emergency hatch, you can see empty space there; also, when LaForge waves his hand over the MSD in "Hero Worship", he sort of appears to place the bridge at the forward edge of the saucer (which in the model is heavily damaged, but the MSD fails to show any damage). Perhaps the bridge in this ship type is an expansive facility extending all the way to the saucer rim, then?

Even for a 120 meter Oberth, this would be a huge facility, though, and at odds with what we actually see of such spaces in ST3 or the various episodes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Galileo7]

Good bridge links:
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges1.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges/federation-bridges1.jpg

SFS Excelsior Bridge: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges/excelsior-nx2000-bridge.jpg

 

[Basill]

I just scanned over some of the screencaps at TrekCore. It looks like the Grissom bridge in TSFS has no railing, and that the stations may all be on the same level (no lower tier for the center of the room). Does anyone else see that?

Yes, I noticed that too. Additionally, the command chair and helm/nav console both appear to be closer to the far wall than on the "bigger ships", implying that the bridge itself might be smaller, and possibly oval.

Yeah, the Saratoga was filmed under very similar angular constraints in TVH. The other two bridges seen in that film's Starfleet Control Center used the same set components, but required even less visible spread. Of course, one ship was the Yorktown and I forget the other ship's name off the top of my head (but I remember it had that Go-Go's band member sending an emergency transmission).

The most interesting thing about the Grissom was that an access door (typically turbolift access on most ships) is barely visible in some shots, just to the right of the science station. That pairing was common since TMP, but given this presumed configuration, that puts the access door well fore of the helm, probably very close to the main view screen (a feature never actually revealed on Grissom but certainly implied to be there by actor cues). It is certainly an interesting variation since I'm pretty sure The Animated Series was the only previous instance of this.

 

[Christopher]

...and I forget the other ship's name off the top of my head (but I remember it had that Go-Go's band member sending an emergency transmission).

That would be Jane Wiedlin (whom I know mainly as Joan of Arc from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure), and Memory Alpha says her character Trillya was communications officer aboard the USS Shepard.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

The most interesting thing about the Grissom was that an access door (typically turbolift access on most ships) is barely visible in some shots, just to the right of the science station. That pairing was common since TMP, but given this presumed configuration, that puts the access door well fore of the helm, probably very close to the main view screen (a feature never actually revealed on Grissom but certainly implied to be there by actor cues). It is certainly an interesting variation since I'm pretty sure The Animated Series was the only previous instance of this.

If I remember correctly, the Grissom set involved no rearrangement of the consoles as was done for the Reliant. Instead, the captain's chair and the helm console were turned around and were, in essence, facing the rear bridge console seen behind Kirk in both TWOK and TSFS. That's why no viewscreen was ever shown. It was behind Esteban's chair.

This is, of course, the out-of-universe explanation for why everything on Grissom's bridge looked the way it did. In universe, the bridge looked much like this. The turbolift doors face each other across the bridge.

If you look closely at the science station, you can see that the consoles around it are the same as they are on the Enterprise. Additionally, the communications station is on the opposite side of the bridge from the science station, just as it is on the Enterprise.

Of note, why does the Grissom's navigator always look stoned?

--Sran

 

[Basill]

If I remember correctly, the Grissom set involved no rearrangement of the consoles as was done for the Reliant.

Not exactly clear on what you mean here; Are you saying, "No rearrangement from the way Reliant was configured" or "Was not rearranged extensively from the Enterprise set-up as was necessary for the Reliant portrayal"?

Regardless, despite the significant shifting of stations to depict the Reliant as a distinct Starfleet ship, the Enterprise stations actually managed to get rearranged in every one of the first three films. There is the most obvious shifting of the science station between TMP and TWOK (which had its own subsequent consequences for other stations), but there was also a subtle reversal of two stand-up stations on Enterprise between TWOK and TSFS. Picturing that post-TMP bridge from above, the two stations just counter-clockwise of the science station actually flipped between films. This might have just been a leftover of some of the Reliant attachments (the "Dyno-scanner" next to the science station), but the Grissom line up is indeed the same as the Enterprise from the same film, just not the same as TWOK.

Instead, the captain's chair and the helm console were turned around and were, in essence, facing the rear bridge console seen behind Kirk in both TWOK and TSFS. That's why no viewscreen was ever shown. It was behind Esteban's chair.

Well, naturally! But still very clever.

This is, of course, the out-of-universe explanation for why everything on Grissom's bridge looked the way it did.

Actually, I think things were even more askew than that. The central stations were clearly reversed in direction, but they were probably set more diagonal than the conventional setup, as well as being significantly crowded toward that actual viewer area. The backsides of the captain's chair and helm/nav chairs were probably facing the station just clockwise of the main viewer. In this shot of the helm officer (she is the one that replied to the standard orbit command) film production was able to keep the main viewer barely out of sight, probably made possible by a more diagonal adjustment.

Of note, why does the Grissom's navigator always look stoned?

--Sran

Heh. Probably wondering why they're always facing the wrong direction?

 

[Wingsley]

So, the Grissom had two turbolift stations, but they were on opposite sides of the bridge, or nearly so, with one situated between the science station and the main viewer. (Unless we assume this second set of doors next to the main viewer to be an exit into a corridor or stairwell/ladder.) Fascinating.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Not exactly clear on what you mean here; Are you saying, "No rearrangement from the way Reliant was configured" or "Was not rearranged extensively from the Enterprise set-up as was necessary for the Reliant portrayal"?

The second of the two. Reliant's bridge required moving the communications and engineering consoles, and used only a single turbolift entrance, whereas the Enterprise had two.

--Sran

 

[Timo]

This is, of course, the out-of-universe explanation for why everything on Grissom's bridge looked the way it did.

It explains how everything looked the way it did. The why still takes some 'splaining.

Was removing the railing and remounting the central pedestal done because the director wanted a different-looking bridge without actually moving the walls, and therefore had to do this to hide the viewscreen? Or was it done to make the bridge look smaller?

(Also, since the original setup would have this pit in the middle, was the pit covered somehow to prevent the actors from breaking a leg, or was everything indeed rebuilt on level floor? If the latter, why not rearrange the walls if the aim was "different"? Does this prove the aim was "smaller"?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[WarpFactorZ]

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges1.htm

I always disliked the TNG redresses / kitbashes of the bridge set. On the whole, they usually ended up looking awkward and non-functional. Why is the Captain sitting right next to the navigator on the Hathaway's bridge? And why do the chairs at the aft stations look like they were ripped from a space shuttle? Why do the same class of vessel (Prometheus and Sutherland, both Nebulas) have completely different bridge designs?

Then there were the bridges that weren't even bridges, like the Jenolan's (which was reminiscent of the emergency control station on the TOS Constellation).

 

[137th Gebirg]

Agreed. There seemed to be not much attention paid to design continuity when it came to those kinds of things. All Nebula bridges should have been redresses of the Galaxy-class bridge, as they appeared to have identically configured external structures on the ships themselves. All that space, and to put people in those tiny cramped rooms never made any sense at all.

 

[Timo]

Why is the Captain sitting right next to the navigator on the Hathaway's bridge?

Apparently because those chairs are moveable, in-universe. (They move on the E-D bridge often enough, swapping sides after the pilot episode but subtly changing position in several others as well.)

Note there's another one of those pulpit-chairs stashed away to the side, like any piece of furniture pushed aside. When the ship was mothballed, the chairs probably were pushed out of their usual places to make room for the people who cannibalized the bridge for spares. And when the ship was assigned as a wargames target instead, somebody took one of the pulpit-chairs and placed it at a central position so that he or she could pilot the ship to the required location.

Back when she was operational, she probably had the chairs arranged differently. But here she is not.

Then there were the bridges that weren't even bridges, like the Jenolan's (which was reminiscent of the emergency control station on the TOS Constellation).

Which it in all likelihood was. The ship must have had more crew than just the one poor sap that Scotty failed to save. And that other crew (as well as any putative other passengers) must have died a gruesome death when the ship crashed. If the Captain and everybody else from the bridge is dead, then it's a good bet the main bridge itself is smashed, even if this isn't evident from the outside.

All that space, and to put people in those tiny cramped rooms never made any sense at all.

People used to gripe about Picard not using the well-protected if cramped Battle Bridge often enough. Well, the skippers of these Nebula ships might have been smarter...

(The Sutherland had the perfect excuse anyway, as it was made clear she was in the middle of some sort of a teardown, and had entire decks rendered useless. Main Bridge could have been among the unusable spaces.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why is the Captain sitting right next to the navigator on the Hathaway's bridge?

At first I thought this was because there was a missing second chair on the other side (which would have made sense given how old and worn out the Hathaway was), but if you look at the 'base' that those chairs are attached to, there's no room for a second chair. Apparently it was always supposed to look like that, even when the ship was brand new.

Why do the same class of vessel (Prometheus and Sutherland, both Nebulas) have completely different bridge designs?

Probably because there was only like one set that was constantly being rebuilt as different ships' bridges, and they weren't able to recreate one specific design from episode to episode.

 

[JES]

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges1.htm

I always disliked the TNG redresses / kitbashes of the bridge set. On the whole, they usually ended up looking awkward and non-functional. Why is the Captain sitting right next to the navigator on the Hathaway's bridge? And why do the chairs at the aft stations look like they were ripped from a space shuttle? Why do the same class of vessel (Prometheus and Sutherland, both Nebulas) have completely different bridge designs?

Then there were the bridges that weren't even bridges, like the Jenolan's (which was reminiscent of the emergency control station on the TOS Constellation).

True, especially when you realize: "hey, don't they have the exact same bridge modules?". And I mean the Nebula and Galaxy classes. They should share the same bridge layout. Having different bridge layouts in among the same class is an even worse affront.

Then again, so should've the Enterprise and Reliant, seeing as how the Constitution and Miranda seem to have identical bridge modules.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Then again, so should've the Enterprise and Reliant, seeing as how the Constitution and Miranda seem to have identical bridge modules.

Aside from the turbolift placement, the Enterprise and Reliant bridges were essentially the same.

 

[JES]

Though I have to wonder why the Reliant only had one turbolift, while the Enterprise had two.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Out-of-universe, it was likely to show that Reliant was just different enough from Enterprise to be noticed when talking to Khan on-screen (with the turbolift behind him). Putting the light-light-blue slip-covers on the Enterprise bridge chairs and leaving the Reliant chairs in TMP configuration was another visual cue to that effect. It seemed to be strictly a set design decision to inform the audience where they were in any given scene, regardless of who was standing on the respective bridges delivering their lines. The Reliant bridge also seemed to have brighter overall lighting than Enterprise did, as well.

As for an in-universe explanation, anything is possible. Different contractors making the bridge sub-assemblies with varying requirements, different mission parameters, etc. Couldn't fathom what those would be, but there it is...

 

[mos6507]

Even TOS bridges were made to look different (like the captain's chair extension) so it's not like they have to make every bridge identical even on the same class of ship.

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Exactly. There were also different set-ups in the corridors and engineering between ships in TOS, IIRC. Pretty common occurrence, actually - a practice that extended well on into TNG and its successors.