Ah, yer breakin' my heart, kid.
Come back eventually.
I made it to page 70 last night and I enjoyed the last 10 pages or so.
Titan's Sword of Damocles
- Thread starter AdmiralSteven
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I made it to page 70 last night and I enjoyed the last 10 pages or so.
I finally finished. Took me two months.
I enjoyed it but I got lost. With school, it takes me a couple month to get through a book but this book was too complex to take that long and I start to loose important details hence getting lost. It is a book I would like to re-read some day so I can pick up on all the pieces I missed and get a better appreciation for it.
Well its taken me about 2-3 years but I'm finally caught up on TNG-R and Titan where I can finally start Destiny.
I enjoyed it but I got lost. With school, it takes me a couple month to get through a book but this book was too complex to take that long and I start to loose important details hence getting lost. It is a book I would like to re-read some day so I can pick up on all the pieces I missed and get a better appreciation for it.
Well its taken me about 2-3 years but I'm finally caught up on TNG-R and Titan where I can finally start Destiny.
Trying to keep this spoiler-free...hence a lot of obliqueness.
Just finished reading it myself. I would have to agree that it starts out slow, but the pace by the end was much more...my kind of pace.
I'm reading "Before Dishonor" at work right now...I don't believe I need to say anything about the contrast in pacing there.
The ending was a little confusing, but I believe I figured out who was who. While I think I tracked what was going on during the novel, there were times where it felt a bit tech-heavy, possibly unnecessarily so.
I'm not sure I cared for the portrayal of Vale later in the book, but I'm kind of sure we're not entirely supposed to. Still, I ended up feeling like something important had happened before this book but during the events of this novel was generally only implied when it perhaps should have been more explicit.
Unfortunately, I don't think I was as invested in some of the characters as I should have been, possibly because I hadn't read a Titan novel in quite awhile, or maybe because I just didn't find that particular character overly compelling. I don't mean to be blaming the author here.
Largely off-topic, I'd still like to see Keru find some romance.
Just finished reading it myself. I would have to agree that it starts out slow, but the pace by the end was much more...my kind of pace.
I'm reading "Before Dishonor" at work right now...I don't believe I need to say anything about the contrast in pacing there.
The ending was a little confusing, but I believe I figured out who was who. While I think I tracked what was going on during the novel, there were times where it felt a bit tech-heavy, possibly unnecessarily so.
I'm not sure I cared for the portrayal of Vale later in the book, but I'm kind of sure we're not entirely supposed to. Still, I ended up feeling like something important had happened before this book but during the events of this novel was generally only implied when it perhaps should have been more explicit.
Unfortunately, I don't think I was as invested in some of the characters as I should have been, possibly because I hadn't read a Titan novel in quite awhile, or maybe because I just didn't find that particular character overly compelling. I don't mean to be blaming the author here.
Largely off-topic, I'd still like to see Keru find some romance.
DonIago--Just curious, but did you end up liking Dakal as a result of this book? Even though I wasn't as forgiving of the A-plot as you, I really liked the way Dakal was developed here.
(Which is why I couldn't stand the fact that in Torrent Sea, Dakal was there for no other purpose than to stick his foot in his mouth. After seeing him grow and develop so much here, that was really aggravating. Thankfully Synthesis put this right, and we actually get to see Dakal as the voice of reason between two crew members who are being rather immature.
)
(Which is why I couldn't stand the fact that in Torrent Sea, Dakal was there for no other purpose than to stick his foot in his mouth. After seeing him grow and develop so much here, that was really aggravating. Thankfully Synthesis put this right, and we actually get to see Dakal as the voice of reason between two crew members who are being rather immature.
)Dakal's been one of my favorites, though I'm not sure he's struck me as truly Cardassian thus far. I'm also not sure the portrayals of Cardassian culture that we've seen have been internally consistent, though I don't have specific examples.
I haven't read past Damocles yet, but I'll likely get around to it...sometime. This was easily the "heaviest" of the Titan books IMO...I wouldn't mind if things were a bit less so going forward.
I haven't read past Damocles yet, but I'll likely get around to it...sometime. This was easily the "heaviest" of the Titan books IMO...I wouldn't mind if things were a bit less so going forward.
We know Dakal was somewhat nonconformist as far as Cardassians go...plus, I seem to recall hearing another book said the Dakals had a family connection to the Ghemors by marriage. If that's so, then dissidence might not be a surprise.
"Dakal" was, if I remember correctly, the maiden name of Kaleen Ghemor, Tekeny's wife (as revealed in "Fearful Symmetry"). I don't know if it was ever clarified to be the same Dakal family, but as you say, if it is the same family then a political alliance between the Ghemors and the Dakals might explain why Zurin's family fled to Lejonis during the war.
(in "Synthesis")....get to see Dakal as the voice of reason between two crew members who are being rather immature.
I loved the Sethe/Chaka bickering subplot in "Synthesis"!
Partly that was because I love the Chaka character and I'd wanted to see more of her ever since her appearances in "Orion's Hounds". Partly, though, it was because Sethe sort of reminded me of how I was a few years back (and can still on occasion be...the remnants of that chip on my shoulder are still sometimes there). I used to take offhand comments about gender and gender roles very seriously, and got in quite the huff over comments that I decided were trying to dictate gender roles to me. So Sethe had me in humble self-recognition. Dakal trying to drown out his and Chaka's bickering was very amusing- and I certainly felt for him!
"Dakal" was, if I remember correctly, the maiden name of Kaleen Ghemor, Tekeny's wife (as revealed in "Fearful Symmetry"). I don't know if it was ever clarified to be the same Dakal family, but as you say, if it is the same family then a political alliance between the Ghemors and the Dakals might explain why Zurin's family fled to Lejonis during the war.
That's kind of what I was thinking...living in a Dukat-controlled regime would be HELL for anyone tied to the Ghemors. Look how Dukat followed Tekeny all the way to DS9 to harass him as he was dying! I'm sure he would have no problem killing Tekeny's family members.
(in "Synthesis")....get to see Dakal as the voice of reason between two crew members who are being rather immature.
I loved the Sethe/Chaka bickering subplot in "Synthesis"!
Dakal trying to drown out his and Chaka's bickering was very amusing- and I certainly felt for him!
Oh, the bickering was funny.
But, it was also SO heartening to me to see Dakal be the one to call the stereotyping for what it was, and to set straight the incorrect facts being thrown around--to see the author show that being a Cardassian does not make you a racist.
Which is what some people tried to take his words as before (and did it even again in Torrent Sea, which felt like SUCH a backstep). And that's why in Sword of Damocles, it was also very heartwarming to see Jaza recognize that just as it was wrong for the Cardassians to see his people as inferior, it was also wrong for others to treat Dakal as a pariah or make him live in shame because of his race. I think that while part of it was Dakal's own self-confidence, and sense of personal responsibility (even though he couldn't control what happened), I DO think that the Brikar's comments, and other comments I saw throughout the series (though thankfully they stopped in Synthesis and after that I hope they will STAY stopped) provide evidence that Dakal was indeed treated differently by some because he was Cardassian.
What the mentorship said about Jaza was really impressive. Here's a man whose world was ravaged and whose wife was killed by the Cardassians--a man who actually fought in the Resistance--yet he is able to see Dakal as a young man who just wants to be judged by the content of his character just like anybody else. And to not just observe that, not just say a few kind words, but to actively mentor him...that really was a tribute to Jaza's character.
There seems to be a lot of negativity about this one, for some reason, but I loooooooved it. I seriously think it's the best Titan book so far, outside of Destiny, and I love CLB's entries too. So twisted and urgent and unique.
I don't know WHAT y'all's problem is.
I don't know WHAT y'all's problem is.
It's definitely a very quirky book and I can see why some people may not like it... but, I loved it too. I'm a big fan of stuff that screws with your head and really makes you have to pay attention (which is why Lost is my favorite show), and IMO Sword did that very well.
^I think that's precisely my problem...I don't like feeling like I -have- to pay attention. I love LOST, but I'm perfectly willing to accept that until I do a DVD marathon I'm probably forgetting a lot of references...but that's not diminishing my enjoyment of what I'm seeing. In fact, it may enhance it in subsequent viewings.
No offense to the author, but SoD didn't feel like a book where I'm going to try reading it again to see whether I enjoy it more, unless the events/characters highlighted in it prove very pertinent later on....which is a lot harder with an infrequent book series than with a weekly tv series.
Also, and I'll be the first to admit this may be a bit of a cheap shot...it did kind of nag at me that there were a number of technological points in the book that either strayed from the terminology I would have expected or just seemed...unusual or improbable. The feeling I got was that possibly the editor didn't have the kind of grounding in Trek that they should have had, or were rushed for time or something.
I hadn't read or even skimmed any Titan novels in months, and this...wasn't the most gentle of reintroductions. I really did want to like the book, and the end certainly held my attention, but overall...sigh.
No offense to the author, but SoD didn't feel like a book where I'm going to try reading it again to see whether I enjoy it more, unless the events/characters highlighted in it prove very pertinent later on....which is a lot harder with an infrequent book series than with a weekly tv series.
Also, and I'll be the first to admit this may be a bit of a cheap shot...it did kind of nag at me that there were a number of technological points in the book that either strayed from the terminology I would have expected or just seemed...unusual or improbable. The feeling I got was that possibly the editor didn't have the kind of grounding in Trek that they should have had, or were rushed for time or something.
I hadn't read or even skimmed any Titan novels in months, and this...wasn't the most gentle of reintroductions. I really did want to like the book, and the end certainly held my attention, but overall...sigh.
I saw what the intent was, but I felt that the A-plot was presented in a way that was TOO fractured. It's not that I can't read books with very intricate or convoluted plots. I mean, I love stuff like The Brothers Karamazov (which definitely has a lot of moving parts), or the Mageworlds series (which as you read it involves a LOT of time travel and a lot of pieces to put together as well), but this one just didn't work for me except for the Dakal sideplot.
I think another problem was a lot like what DonIago pointed out--I didn't feel like I HAD to care or pay attention except through the eyes of this one character. It was convoluted but I wasn't engaged enough with that side of the plot through any of the characters (save Jaza to some extent, but I felt like he was much better handled shipboard with Dakal than on the planet with Modan) to really WANT to try to sort it out.
I think another problem was a lot like what DonIago pointed out--I didn't feel like I HAD to care or pay attention except through the eyes of this one character. It was convoluted but I wasn't engaged enough with that side of the plot through any of the characters (save Jaza to some extent, but I felt like he was much better handled shipboard with Dakal than on the planet with Modan) to really WANT to try to sort it out.
I did find it weird that no one caught that Cethente was referred to as "Celenthe" in the novel. So maybe there's a case that Marco was overworked and didn't spend as much time editing this one, or something.
But I loved untangling it, I had a blast figuring out how it all came together. Whining that a book is making you think seems a little low to me.
But I loved untangling it, I had a blast figuring out how it all came together. Whining that a book is making you think seems a little low to me.
"Whining that a book is making you think seems a little low to me."
Why?
If you go in expecting "Star Wars", and you end up with "War and Peace", is it not surprising that you'll end up disappointed? And is it also not surprising that, when asked what you thought of it, you might express said disappointment?
I don't think anyone's whining in any case...it's not like anyone's saying "This book sucked," without any degree of substantiation.
You're entitled to your pleasure that the book made you think. Others who were expecting (not necessarily with cause) lighter reading are allowed to not be quite so happy about it.
Why?
If you go in expecting "Star Wars", and you end up with "War and Peace", is it not surprising that you'll end up disappointed? And is it also not surprising that, when asked what you thought of it, you might express said disappointment?
I don't think anyone's whining in any case...it's not like anyone's saying "This book sucked," without any degree of substantiation.
You're entitled to your pleasure that the book made you think. Others who were expecting (not necessarily with cause) lighter reading are allowed to not be quite so happy about it.
The editor was Marco Palmieri, same as with all the other Titan novels published to date. And nobody could justly accuse Marco of lacking a grounding in Trek.
But why would you go into a Star Trek novel expecting something as insubstantial as Star Wars?
"The editor was Marco Palmieri, same as with all the other Titan novels published to date. And nobody could justly accuse Marco of lacking a grounding in Trek."
(nods) It was simply theory based on -what struck me- as being inconsistencies/oddities with previously established jargon and such. I don't really know what the root cause was, but I'd be curious to find out.
FWIW, I did try looking up the annotations for the novel, but had some trouble finding them. Links if available would be appreciated.
I think it's a matter of record that Star Trek novels can cover a very large spectrum of narrative styles, and which style you'll encounter isn't necessarily clear from the outset. That being the case, people still end up forming preconceptions. In this case, my preconceptions of how Trek novels tend to read were at odds with how this one read to me in a manner that made it less pleasurable for me than it was for others. No harm no foul.
(nods) It was simply theory based on -what struck me- as being inconsistencies/oddities with previously established jargon and such. I don't really know what the root cause was, but I'd be curious to find out.
FWIW, I did try looking up the annotations for the novel, but had some trouble finding them. Links if available would be appreciated.
I think it's a matter of record that Star Trek novels can cover a very large spectrum of narrative styles, and which style you'll encounter isn't necessarily clear from the outset. That being the case, people still end up forming preconceptions. In this case, my preconceptions of how Trek novels tend to read were at odds with how this one read to me in a manner that made it less pleasurable for me than it was for others. No harm no foul.
http://damoclesannotated.blogspot.com/
Memory Beta has a page of links to novel annotation sites:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Author's_annotations
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