Spoilers Titans - DC Universe Series

[theenglish]

Fine by me. I'm hardly the only one who's called that tactic out by the studios. See all the YT vids and commentary on the way Sony played up the audience 'misogyny' behind Ghostbusters 2016.... and how well it worked for them, lol.

You still missed the point--nobody is discussing what studios did or didn't do. That's a different discussion. Hence "straw man".

 

[doylem1]

Starfire's design is terrible. Looks like a over the hill/past her prime cheap prostitute. Horrible costume, horrible hair. How can DC get that characters look so wrong ?. Not to keen on Raven either going from the trailer she seems to scream a lot rather than cast spells.

Let me for the record just say I have no problems with the actress playing Starfire being Black/Asian/Latino or any anything else. The look of the character from the pictures released is the issue. She doesn't represent Starfire from any media I've seen and that is not the actresses fault it is the people in charge.

 

[dahj]

Minka Kelley is tired of your bullshit.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlsrP0alI1Q/

Also,

Anna Diop likes her back.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Absolutely. If someone runs up to you and says "Help, my friend's house is on fire!", you don't look around and say, "Hey, but most of these houses aren't on fire, so I don't have to worry."

But saying the whole city is burning down isn't quite right, either.

I think this is very much a widespread issue. Now I'm sure in the long run it represents a minority of fandom, like with any other radicalized yet highly vocal group, but that minority is far reaching, and often methodical and organized, in its attacks. We recently learned how widespread online misogynistic hate groups are; the ones where men turn their hurt about not getting laid or getting work into blaming women and minorities for the men's own shortcomings or bad luck. This is just an extension of that.

There's definitely a problem out there and maybe I am downplaying it too much but I hate for everyone to get painted with the same brush as that element. Don't get me wrong it absolutely should be called out when it takes place and it does seem to be brewing. I appreciate you being civil about it even if you don't agree with what I've layed out.

 

[Christopher]

But saying the whole city is burning down isn't quite right, either. There's definitely a problem out there and maybe I am downplaying it too much but I hate for everyone to get painted with the same brush as that element.

Nobody is saying that. But when a house is on fire, that is where everyone's attention urgently needs to be. That's not painting everyone with the same brush, it's just asking everyone to pay attention to the problem. The fact that it's the only thing being addressed does not mean it's an accusation against everyone, it just means that the people who are part of the problem, and the people they victimize, are where our attention needs to be focused.

 

[Kane_Steel]

That's "lo and behold."

Those are two different dresses by the way.

And now you're gaslighting about your own posts.

So what? She looks like a cheap streetwalker in both the set pics, and her final look seen on the SDCC Promotional poster.

Set photos were indeed indicative of her appearance onscreen.

 

[Kane_Steel]

Minka Kelley is tired of your bullshit.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlsrP0alI1Q/

LOL. I can already tell that isn't going to go over well.

Ghostbusters 2016, here we go again.

Looking forward to seeing what becomes of this show.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

So what? She looks like a cheap streetwalker in both the set pics, and her final look seen on the SDCC Promotional poster.

That still doesn't mean that what we've seen is Starfire's normal costumed look. We even have a post from a fellow cast member indicating that it isn't.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Mmm... from the angle of the picture of Starfire, it's hard to tell if she is in 5 inch heels or floating, because no one walks in LA... Wait, is this still set in San Fransico? (The original Tower was in New York.)

 

[dahj]

LOL.

Nothing funnier than rampant sexism, racism, misogyny and harassment...

 

[Terok Nor]

Let me get this straight. It's racist to state you'd prefer Starfire to be orange (like in the comics) rather than brown? I know some people go overboard with fake tanning products but as far as I'm aware no one is naturally orange skinned

Surely this should always have been a non issue. No matter what skin color the actress playing Starfire is, she needs to be painted orange in order to look like the character.

Regardless, this show looks bad. Between Robin's "Fuck Batman" and Starfire dressing like a hooker I'm not optimistic.

 

[Guy Gardener]

plenty of women in orange-face cosplaying as Starfire

It doesn't really matter, but wouldn't it have been a neat line to say that Kori is more orange than the President?

 

[Christopher]

Let me get this straight. It's racist to state you'd prefer Starfire to be orange (like in the comics) rather than brown? I know some people go overboard with fake tanning products but as far as I'm aware no one is naturally orange skinned

Starfire is gold-skinned, not "orange." She was frequently and consistently called golden in dialogue in all the New Teen Titans comics I've read. She was also able to pass for human in the comics just by putting on sunglasses to hide her solid-green eyes; people just assumed she was well-tanned or Latina or something. So her complexion was meant to be more or less within the range of human variation. It was only her eyes that were clearly alien.

Besides, claiming that such objections are about fidelity to the comics is always a lie to cover racism. Nobody has ever raised a furor that Jimmy Olsen or Matt Murdock was being played by a brown-haired actor instead of a redhead, or that Barry Allen wasn't being played by a blond actor. Nobody has ever harassed a Superman actor for having brown eyes instead of blue. This kind of fan outrage is only directed against nonwhite actors. It's disingenuous to pretend it isn't racism.

 

[Reverend]

Personally, I don't really care who they've cast in what role. I'm willing to give a new interpretation of any character the benefit of the doubt if they're going somewhere interesting with it...but that trailer doesn't exactly fill me with optimism. Yeah, I'll admit I'm not wild about the design of Starfire (though the others look "OK" I guess) that's less of an issue for me than the overall tone which feels far to morose and trying *way* too hard to be dark and edgy.
I don't mind a little edge and angst, but so far this just feels superficial.

Oh, and while usually I feel this should go without saying, I find these days it seems I do actually need to clarify the point for some people: The arseholes harassing the actor playing Starfire can go fuck themselves up one side and down the other.

 

[Terok Nor]

Starfire is gold-skinned, not "orange." She was frequently and consistently called golden in dialogue in all the New Teen Titans comics I've read. She was also able to pass for human in the comics just by putting on sunglasses to hide her solid-green eyes; people just assumed she was well-tanned or Latina or something. So her complexion was meant to be more or less within the range of human variation. It was only her eyes that were clearly alien.

Besides, claiming that such objections are about fidelity to the comics is always a lie to cover racism. Nobody has ever raised a furor that Jimmy Olsen or Matt Murdock was being played by a brown-haired actor instead of a redhead, or that Barry Allen wasn't being played by a blond actor. Nobody has ever harassed a Superman actor for having brown eyes instead of blue. This kind of fan outrage is only directed against nonwhite actors. It's disingenuous to pretend it isn't racism.

I never said the actress isn't being targeted by racists. Clearly she is and they should kill themselves. I just think those who think an alien comic book character who is well known for being orange/gold should look the part have a genuine reason to be peeved. No one is saying anyone has a right to direct racist language and behaviour at the actress. Don't put words in my mouth.

Does anyone actually give a shit about Jimmy Olsen in the first place? Daredevil, I'll grant you, but being a blind superhero is the most notable and important thing to get right with that character. I don't expect any tv or film adaption to be 100% faithful to the comic books. As long as the most important and iconic things are there I'm fine with a different hair or eye color or even skin color. I think removing Starfire's most notable visual is disappointing but then the whole trailer was a big disappointment anyway. Any actress of any color should be free to play this character but orange/gold make-up should really be applied to complete the transformation.

 

[theenglish]

Let me get this straight. It's racist to state you'd prefer Starfire to be orange (like in the comics) rather than brown? I know some people go overboard with fake tanning products but as far as I'm aware no one is naturally orange skinned

No, I think pretty much everybody would prefer an appearance more faithful to the comics. The issue is that people are attacking the actress personally using some pretty nasty language.

People should to remember that Kori's skin tone was not supposed to be bright orange (maybe it is now?) but she was originally colored that way based on the comics color palette of the time. She walked around in public wearing sun glasses and nobody looked twice at her.

Regardless we have seen very little of her appearance so far so any extreme reaction (positive or negative) is completely unwarranted at this point. The series effects most likely are still unfinished.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It saves time and money not to have the girl be orange.

5 hours on a chair every morning before work starts.

Fuck that.

What about poor Beastboy?

So I guess his green-ness was important enough to the character to Justify annoying the... Hey! This Kid is Asian!

No body paint either.

Just green hair dye.

Weak-sauce.

Oh.

Negative man has had his ethnicity switched from white to black.

I wonder if that means that his cgi effect will switch from glowing black to glowing white?

I doubt it.

 

[Christopher]

I just think those who think an alien comic book character who is well known for being orange/gold should look the part have a genuine reason to be peeved.

No, they don't, because countless actors have not "looked the part" and people should be used to it by now. It's tiresome the way people who want to be negative always harp on these lame and superficial excuses to attack something they haven't seen yet.

And I find it interesting that you're making an issue over Starfire's skin color but aren't complaining about Beast Boy not having green skin (or fur) or Raven not having a jewel in her forehead. Why the double standard?

Does anyone actually give a shit about Jimmy Olsen in the first place?

He had his own self-titled comic book series for 20 years. There was a time when he was a pretty important character. He's one of the most frequently adapted comic-book characters of all time, having been played by at least 9 different actors in live action, 2 on radio (where he originated), and over a dozen in animation. And yet of those 9 different onscreen actors, only the very first one, Tommy Bond, was a redhead (and that was in black-and-white).

I think removing Starfire's most notable visual is disappointing

I think her most notable visual is the device of drawing her hair as a smoke trail when she's in flight, although that doesn't seem to be used in the comics anymore. It's obviously not something that can be translated literally to live-action, but the effect seen in the trailer of her hair glowing brightly like it's burning when she uses her powers is an interesting variation on the idea, capturing the underlying concept in a way that works better in this medium.

 

[Terok Nor]

No, they don't, because countless actors have not "looked the part" and people should be used to it by now.

In your opinion.

It's tiresome the way people who want to be negative always harp on these lame and superficial excuses to attack something they haven't seen yet.

Yes it is. Luckily everything from Titans released so far looks like trash so at least no one is exaggerating anything.

And I find it interesting that you're making an issue over Starfire's skin color

Actually I'm not. I'm following up on the thread already going on in this discussion. I didn't make the issue or bring it to this thread. All I said is I'm disappointed she's not orange. If anyone is making an issue in this thread it is you by being confrontational and arrogant. Nothing new there unfortunately. You've always been one of the biggest reasons to avoid TrekBBS.

but aren't complaining about Beast Boy not having green skin (or fur) or Raven not having a jewel in her forehead. Why the double standard?

I believed I referred to the whole thing as trash. That includes "Fuck Batman" and the visuals, Beast Boy included. They all look bad except potty mouth Robin.

Once again, don't put words in my mouth.

He had his own self-titled comic book series for 20 years. There was a time when he was a pretty important character. He's one of the most frequently adapted comic-book characters of all time, having been played by at least 9 different actors in live action, 2 on radio (where he originated), and over a dozen in animation. And yet of those 9 different onscreen actors, only the very first one, Tommy Bond, was a redhead (and that was in black-and-white).

Always been lame though.

I think her most notable visual is the device of drawing her hair as a smoke trail when she's in flight, although that doesn't seem to be used in the comics anymore. It's obviously not something that can be translated literally to live-action, but the effect seen in the trailer of her hair glowing brightly like it's burning when she uses her powers is an interesting variation on the idea, capturing the underlying concept in a way that works better in this medium.

Fair enough. The orange/gold skin, green eyes and fiery hair have equal standing. A shame to lose any of them but since this series will likely flop and sink without a trace I won't lose too much sleep over it.

 

[theenglish]

He had his own self-titled comic book series for 20 years. There was a time when he was a pretty important character. He's one of the most frequently adapted comic-book characters of all time, having been played by at least 9 different actors in live action, 2 on radio (where he originated), and over a dozen in animation. And yet of those 9 different onscreen actors, only the very first one, Tommy Bond, was a redhead (and that was in black-and-white).

And to my knowledge it was only Mehcad Brooks who was criticized for not looking the part.

And maybe it is just the lighting in the photograph but Kori's skin certainly looks orange in this photo.

After watching the trailer again, Beast Boy definitely has green skin.