Titanic question.
- Thread starter Vanyel
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Right, we shouldn't condemn the White Star Line for not making sure that there were enough lifeboats for all of their passengers. After all, the law didn't require it, and no corporation should ever be condemned for not taking obvious safety measures to prevent thousands of deaths if they're not compelled to by law. Corporations, after all, have no obligations to morality or human decency, only legal obligations. Saying they do would be "unfair."
Easy enough to say with the benefit of modern sensibilities and a hundred years' worth of hindsight. At the time, lifeboats on the Titanic were considered a cosmetic feature, mainly to provide peace of mind for the passengers. The big boat was unsinkable, after all.
No, she didn't murder him. Honestly, such conjecture over two fictional characters. 
If we want to ask the really important question, we must ponder this:
Wouldn't Mr. Calvert have been reeeeeeeally pissed off to find out that his wife of sixty plus years and mother of his children didn't come join him in the hereafter and stayed instead with this skinny kid she knew for three days back in 1912 ten years before she and he got married? You fucked him once, honey, and you're spending eternity with him?
Rose was independent. A newly independent suffragette lady of the 20th century. She didn't have to get married "back in the 20s" per whatshisname the funny fat guy at the beginning of the movie. No one was forcing her this time. Presumably she loved the guy.
So she goes to be with the skinny little nerd in the afterlife?
Or maybe since they're in heaven it's a Big Love type scenario, only Rose gets to be the husband? She and Mr. Calvert do the heavenly deed in the clouds Mondays through Thursdays and Jack gets her on Fridays and weekends? Discuss.
If we want to ask the really important question, we must ponder this:Wouldn't Mr. Calvert have been reeeeeeeally pissed off to find out that his wife of sixty plus years and mother of his children didn't come join him in the hereafter and stayed instead with this skinny kid she knew for three days back in 1912 ten years before she and he got married? You fucked him once, honey, and you're spending eternity with him?
Rose was independent. A newly independent suffragette lady of the 20th century. She didn't have to get married "back in the 20s" per whatshisname the funny fat guy at the beginning of the movie. No one was forcing her this time. Presumably she loved the guy.
So she goes to be with the skinny little nerd in the afterlife?
Or maybe since they're in heaven it's a Big Love type scenario, only Rose gets to be the husband? She and Mr. Calvert do the heavenly deed in the clouds Mondays through Thursdays and Jack gets her on Fridays and weekends? Discuss.
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Fuck true love. I'd just never be able to live with myself knowing I'd murdered someone else.
Right, we shouldn't condemn the White Star Line for not making sure that there were enough lifeboats for all of their passengers. After all, the law didn't require it, and no corporation should ever be condemned for not taking obvious safety measures to prevent thousands of deaths if they're not compelled to by law. Corporations, after all, have no obligations to morality or human decency, only legal obligations. Saying they do would be "unfair."
Easy enough to say with the benefit of modern sensibilities
Oh, bullshit. There had been workers' rights movements fight for safe working environments for decades before the Titanic was launched in 1912. That's not a "modern sensibility."
Yes, and all you've demonstrated is that the White Star was the same kind of corrupt corporation willing to be slack on commonsense safety measures out of hubris and a sense of invincibility that we see all the time today. There's nothing excusable about that mindset today, and there was nothing excusable about it then -- and it's not being unfair to state a basic fact: That the White Star was responsible for every single death aboard the Titanic.
No. She made a serious attempt to share the debris; Jack realized it lacked enough buoyancy to save them both, and so chose to sacrifice himself to ensure Rose's continued survival.
Which is quite a different thing from actively removing someone from the debris and condemning them to freeze to death.
No, she didn't murder him. Honestly, such conjecture over two fictional characters.
Wouldn't Mr. Calvert have been reeeeeeeally pissed off to find out that his wife of sixty plus years and mother of his children didn't come join him in the hereafter and stayed instead with this skinny kid she knew for three days back in 1912 ten years before she and he got married? You fucked him once, honey, and you're spending eternity with him?
Rose was independent. A newly independent suffragette lady of the 20th century. She didn't have to get married "back in the 20s" per whatshisname the funny fat guy at the beginning of the movie. No one was forcing her this time. Presumably she loved the guy.
So she goes to be with the skinny little nerd in the afterlife?
That kinda pissed me off too. A marriage that bore at least one child, and he's not there. But presumably he was never on Titanic. And Jack, maybe was the first person who loved her for her. To her mother and Cal she was a commodity to be traded, a thing to be possessed. But Jack showed her true love in their short time together. So I like to think she goes back to Titanic to be welcomed into Heaven by the first man she loved. Then went on to her husband.
That or she's trapped on Titanic and doomed to haunt it until it crumbles away.
In heaven there is polyamory.
Mister Fandango
Fleet Captain
In fairness to Jim Cameron, AFAIK, he's refused to say/leaves it to the viewer to decide whether that finale is heaven or just a really sappy, crowd-pleasing dream. So... interpret it how you will.
Yeah, no one could have predicted the disaster! Except for, you know, that one guy (in addition to all sorts of safety advocates I'm sure time has forgot) who totally did.
I agree as well!!!
First of all, by staying in the water Jack didn't resign himself to death or "know" he was going to die. He was under the belief that the nearby life boats would come back for more survivors and had simply left to avoid the suction of the ship going down. He said earlier -or implied- he had been in freezing water before so he likely felt he could take it better than Rose could.
On the life-boat thing, the Titanic -as designer Andrews says in the movie- was designed with enough lifeboats for everyone but they reduced the number in order to reduce clutter on the deck. This goes in part to the arrogance of the company in wanting aesthetics over safety and, well, the lifeboats aren't there to flee to when the ship is sinking with the idea to contain everyone.
The "idea" was that you use the lifeboats to transfer passengers between the sinking ship and the shore/rescue ship. So you didn't need more than a certain amount as you just keep moving them back and forth. The idea of using them to contain everyone wasn't seen as a likely scenario and if it did come up it wasn't seen as being practical as once everyone is on a lifeboat, then what? The Titanic was lucky there was a nearby ship to come pick up the survivors. Otherwise the 700 people in the lifeboats would've been just as screwed.
On the life-boat thing, the Titanic -as designer Andrews says in the movie- was designed with enough lifeboats for everyone but they reduced the number in order to reduce clutter on the deck. This goes in part to the arrogance of the company in wanting aesthetics over safety and, well, the lifeboats aren't there to flee to when the ship is sinking with the idea to contain everyone.
The "idea" was that you use the lifeboats to transfer passengers between the sinking ship and the shore/rescue ship. So you didn't need more than a certain amount as you just keep moving them back and forth. The idea of using them to contain everyone wasn't seen as a likely scenario and if it did come up it wasn't seen as being practical as once everyone is on a lifeboat, then what? The Titanic was lucky there was a nearby ship to come pick up the survivors. Otherwise the 700 people in the lifeboats would've been just as screwed.
Yeah, kinda unfair to pin this entirely on the lack of foresight. We have the kind of safety regulations we have now BECAUSE of disasters like this. This just had the poor luck of being the one to point out that things like this could happen...
Yeah, this is one of those areas where concepts like Heaven sorta fall apart in the logistical phase.
Jack would certainly expect to see HER, but she should probably be looking to see her husband. And don't think they'd be cool with a timesharing arrangement.
Same sort of thing you think about when your dog dies. Oh, it's cool, he'll be up there waiting for you, right? You're his best friend, after all. Except over the course of your lifetime, maybe you end up having 6 dogs. Either they all have to share you (but all remember being your only dog), or you tend to favor your more recent ones, and the childhood best friend is mostly forgotten. Or do you only see your favorite, and what happens to the rest of the poor bastards?
Or you go full-retard and assume that Heaven is completely individual experience, and you each get your own reality. So Jack gets a copy of Rose, so does the husband. Not sure how that works on Rose's side, though.
Pretty sloppy, we may need God to weigh in on this...
Yeah, this is one of those areas where concepts like Heaven sorta fall apart in the logistical phase.
Jack would certainly expect to see HER, but she should probably be looking to see her husband. And don't think they'd be cool with a timesharing arrangement.
Same sort of thing you think about when your dog dies. Oh, it's cool, he'll be up there waiting for you, right? You're his best friend, after all. Except over the course of your lifetime, maybe you end up having 6 dogs. Either they all have to share you (but all remember being your only dog), or you tend to favor your more recent ones, and the childhood best friend is mostly forgotten. Or do you only see your favorite, and what happens to the rest of the poor bastards?
Or you go full-retard and assume that Heaven is completely individual experience, and you each get your own reality. So Jack gets a copy of Rose, so does the husband. Not sure how that works on Rose's side, though.
Pretty sloppy, we may need God to weigh in on this...
Well several ships responded to the the Titanic's distress call of which the Carpathia is the most famous, unfortunantly for the Titanic the closest ship the SS Californian had switched off the wireless for the night. But the what was even worse was the failure to responded to the distress rockets launched by the Titanic. Sure even if the Californian had responded to the distress rockets or had her CO ordered the wireless to be switched back on she might have not been able to save everyone but it was likely more would ahve been saved.
But remember out of every disaster something canbe learneed that is as true today as it was then. We now have laws which says ships must carry enough lifeboats for all onabord, 24 hour radio watch.
I was going to mention the California as well. Like you say they wouldn't have saved everyone, but the death toll would have been so much lower.
If Rose hadn't jumped back off the life boat the chances are they'd probably both be dead soon after. Cal would have made sure he survived and Rose wouldn't have been able to avoid marrying him. Given she was already suicidal even before marriage I think she'd have killed herself soon after, and Jack would have likely died anyway given there was no way he was getting on a boat.
No, she didn't murder him. Honestly, such conjecture over two fictional characters.
Wouldn't Mr. Calvert have been reeeeeeeally pissed off to find out that his wife of sixty plus years and mother of his children didn't come join him in the hereafter and stayed instead with this skinny kid she knew for three days back in 1912 ten years before she and he got married? You fucked him once, honey, and you're spending eternity with him?
Rose was independent. A newly independent suffragette lady of the 20th century. She didn't have to get married "back in the 20s" per whatshisname the funny fat guy at the beginning of the movie. No one was forcing her this time. Presumably she loved the guy.
So she goes to be with the skinny little nerd in the afterlife?
That kinda pissed me off too. A marriage that bore at least one child, and he's not there.
She obviously didn't care for anybody in her family. Why else would she throw the priceless jewel into the ocean?
For that matter...she could have at least given the jewel to charity or the guys who spent a fortune searching for it (and taking her along for the ride).
^ It's regularly pointed out on the IMDB boards that the necklace would have been claimed by its insurers had young Rose ever tried to sell it, but I agree that by the 90s it would have been extremely difficult for any of the their heirs to challenge its being donated to any kind of worthy charity.
I think a better ending would have been to show old Rose going to the ship's stern, look wistfully at the diamond, then cut directly to credits - leave it up to the viewers' imagination what she does with it.
I think a better ending would have been to show old Rose going to the ship's stern, look wistfully at the diamond, then cut directly to credits - leave it up to the viewers' imagination what she does with it.
Interesting scenario. One wants to say that Rose would've learned her lesson the first time, and struck out for California even if everyone knew she were alive, but your scenario is a pretty convincing one...
Sense makes that none. If they didn't know that "things like this could happen", why were there any lifeboats on board at all? Maybe because ships had been sinking throughout human history?
Oh geez!
That breaks my heart. Don't worry Prince. I was only 7 when you died, but I remember you. I loved all my dogs. We'll all be together. You, me, Hanna bear, Chloe dog and Blacky the wonder mutt. We'll all live with that sexy Mr. Calvert who that Rose person dumped after a lifetime of devotion. 
He can feed you eternal dog treats. It's heaven. You can have the whole box.If one believes in heaven as heaven, I suppose that would be the only solution for remarried spouses and deceased lovers and all that jazz. And for a lifetime of pets.
Pretty sloppy, we may need God to weigh in on this...
Indeed. God? God? Bueller? Bueller?
^ It's regularly pointed out on the IMDB boards that the necklace would have been claimed by its insurers had young Rose ever tried to sell it, but I agree that by the 90s it would have been extremely difficult for any of the their heirs to challenge its being donated to any kind of worthy charity.
I think a better ending would have been to show old Rose going to the ship's stern, look wistfully at the diamond, then cut directly to credits - leave it up to the viewers' imagination what she does with it.
Interesting scenario. One wants to say that Rose would've learned her lesson the first time, and struck out for California even if everyone knew she were alive, but your scenario is a pretty convincing one...
Sense makes that none. If they didn't know that "things like this could happen", why were there any lifeboats on board at all? Maybe because ships had been sinking throughout human history?
Sometimes events/things overtake the Law. Back when Titanic was built the number of lifeboats was dictated by tonnage not number of people. That of course has now changed.
Even today with ships carrying enough lifeboats for all, people can still die as a result of an accident. eg. the Costa Concordia.
But if you want a scenario: if a ship lists too much oneway it more or less renders half it's lifeboats useless. So should they carry enough on both sides to evacutae the ship (i.e. double the capcity)
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