"Tin Man" the worst episode of TNG ever?

[Superman]

chardman said:

Whoever wrote it was apparently smoking crack.

Umm... that would be Dennis Bailey, who is better known around these parts as UWC Defiance. That's pretty well known here. So I gotta ask: Do you truly hate the episode as much as you claim, or is this just a "clever" way of lashing out at a fellow poster who may have rubbed you the wrong way?

So since I don't agree with YOUR opinion of what episodes are worse than others (or the opinions of others here), I'm in error, and am personally "lashing out" at someone?

Your arrogance is unbelieveable.

And no, I did NOT no that Bailey wrote this episode. It doesn't change the fact that I loathe the story, the acting, etc.

Which is within the purview of my opinion. As is starting a thread about my dislike of the episode.

So kindly keep your assumptions and allegations to yourself.

\S/

 

[Superman]

chardman said:
I agree. Which is why I wonder if the OP's over-the-top hatred of the episode might not be completely genuine, and may instead be feigned solely as an attempted jab at Dennis.

More of the same.

And I'd hardly call anything I've written "over the top."

\S/

 

[Squiggy]

jon1701 said:
Its aged a bit, but then again a lot of them have.

I have a feeling that all the episodes featuring Troi and her turquoise dress aren't gong to make it through the passage of time. They just scream HEY THIS IS FROM 1989! to me.

 

[Superman]

As I think about it, maybe it was the guy that played Tam.

I know the character is tortured, etc., but I think you have to at least like the guy somewhat to care about him, and I didn't at all.

Matt Frewer would have done a better job with the role.

\S/

 

[Professor Moriarty]

chardman said:

Whoever wrote it was apparently smoking crack.

Umm... that would be Dennis Bailey, who is better known around these parts as UWC Defiance. That's pretty well known here. So I gotta ask: Do you truly hate the episode as much as you claim, or is this just a "clever" way of lashing out at a fellow poster who may have rubbed you the wrong way?

That's what I was thinking. I have never heard of "Tin Man" characterized as a "worst episode". In fact, I usually hear "Tin Man" held up as an example of one of TNG's best efforts. It's certainly one of my favorites.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

chardman said:So I gotta ask: Do you truly hate the episode as much as you claim, or is this just a "clever" way of lashing out at a fellow poster who may have rubbed you the wrong way?

Actually, it's without question the latter - you should see the PM Superman (formerly Kal-L) sent me a while ago. What the hey, I'm arrogant and an abrasive poster, and this juvenile crap goes with that territory.

On topic, in most rankings I've seen of TNG episodes "Tin Man" lists somewhere in the bottom third - it's not really well-liked. In the spirit of the performers and filmmakers who lose every year at the Oscars, let me say that "It's an honor just to be nominated."

Oh, Belar - I loved Chattaway's score, too.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Tharpdevenport said:
It's only bad if you suffer from amnesia about "Code of Honor".

"Code of Honor" is just fine so long as you aren't black.

( )

Rey, black and loathing "Code of Honor"

 

[Therin of Andor]

UWC Defiance said:
On topic, in most rankings I've seen of TNG episodes "Tin Man" lists somewhere in the bottom third

It's one of my favourites - and the day I noticed the original science fiction novel, "Tin Woodman" by Bischoff & Bailey, in a second hand shop I pounced upon it.

 

[golakers]

I like Tin Man! Sure, the Betazoid guy is REALLY annoying, but the overall story is pretty good.

Has Dennis Bailey seen this thread?

 

[Superman]

UWC Defiance said:
Actually, it's without question the latter - you should see the PM Superman (formerly Kal-L) sent me a while ago. What the hey, I'm arrogant and an abrasive poster, and this juvenile crap goes with that territory.

No, Dennis, it's actually not "without question" the case.

I honestly had no idea you were involved in that episode. I brought it up because it was on Spike yesterday and I watched the first half hour, and remembered just how much I never liked the episode.

Kudos to you for having contributed to any episode of Star Trek. As a fan, that's got to be an honor.

And I'm flattered you keep my PMs. That's great.

\S/

 

[WeAreTheBorg]

Its definately in the category of bad TNG episodes, but it's probably not even in the bottom 20.

 

[Gertch]

Superman said:
As I think about it, maybe it was the guy that played Tam.

I have to say he is the only thing I can say I disliked about the episode. I quite liked the premise and enjoyed the story as I've said in the past.

Thank you Dennis. :thumbsup:

 

[Deleted 2]

I'm actually interested what kind of mindset could lead to one seeing "Tin Man" as a bad episode. I can understand how it could be mediocre, if you don't care about the character, and think the spaceship is wonky. But actually bad?

Perhaps those of us so interested could list our respective Best and Worst episodes of TNG, so we can see if a pattern emerges.

Best: Darmok
Worst: Shades of Grey (perhaps this one should be disqualified) and Conundrum

 

[Dusty Ayres]

InklingStar said:
I see Tin Man as a precursor to Farscape. It's not hard to imagine that Gomtuu is a stray Leviathan, is it?

No, Gomtuu is not a percursor to Moya or Talyn: the bioship goes back futher than that TV-wise, to the Invid of the Robotech trilogy, and is a part of most SF on TV and in novels (check out the Wikipedia page on bioships.)

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's a very old idea; the original inspiration for Gomtuu was "Starmaker" by Olaf Stapledon.

 

[startrekwatcher]

No, it's actually one of my favorites from season three. I enjoyed the idea of a what it must be like to be overwhelmed by so many thoughts and feelings that it screws you up, the action scenes were well done, and I liked its humanistic feel.

 

[InklingStar]

Dusty Ayres said:

InklingStar said:
I see Tin Man as a precursor to Farscape. It's not hard to imagine that Gomtuu is a stray Leviathan, is it?

No, Gomtuu is not a percursor to Moya or Talyn: the bioship goes back futher than that TV-wise, to the Invid of the Robotech trilogy, and is a part of most SF on TV and in novels (check out the Wikipedia page on bioships.)

I wasn't tying to imply that the Farscape creators were necessarily influenced by this episode. It's just my own way of reconciling two of my favorite shows.

 

[FordSVT]

Superman said:
As I think about it, maybe it was the guy that played Tam.

I know the character is tortured, etc., but I think you have to at least like the guy somewhat to care about him, and I didn't at all.

Matt Frewer would have done a better job with the role.

\S/

I could have told you that after your second post.

It seems to me that you real problem isn't the episode, it's that something about the character really grates you and renders you incapable of seeing past the good parts of the episode. Which is fine, it's your opinion.

Maybe you should have titled the thread "Tam Elbran: most annoying character ever?".

 

[Superman]

^^^I think you're right.

\S/

 

[Turtletrekker]

UWC Defiance said:

On topic, in most rankings I've seen of TNG episodes "Tin Man" lists somewhere in the bottom third - it's not really well-liked. In the spirit of the performers and filmmakers who lose every year at the Oscars, let me say that "It's an honor just to be nominated."

Oh, Belar - I loved Chattaway's score, too.

Really? I would place it higher than that. Probably top third, but not near my top 25 (Sorry Dennis). But it did what a lot TNG (especially later seasons) failed to do. It sought out new life. It gave us a truly alien and interesting and unique life-form, that in end felt things in the same way that we do (lonliness, anguish and the need for companionship). In other words, it was very "Roddenberry-esque".

What brought it down (IMHO) was the annoying and unlikeable Tam Elbrun, and given that he was supposed to be annoying and unlikeable, that's not the fairest criteria, but there you go. And Riker, whose feelings toward Elbrun may have been justified, was just a jerk. But I did like Elbrun's interactions with Data.