This is why treating TOS as its own thing is more fun.
Timeline proof.
- Thread starter JcarlA
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We've had permanent timeline changes before and still considered the results as prime, they were just more subtle. The Bajoran poet, Trials and Tribbleations, Spocks Sehlat dying. Possibly Gabriel Bell. Same principle here, just larger
I agree. But 'just larger' is a bit of an understatement here.
I think it's about perception. I don't think this helicopter view is helpful. We're seeing multiple slightly different iterations of the same timeline from different vantage points.
I don't view TOS as having been "erased" because it obviously happened and has been referenced multiple times in other shows.
TOS happened for those characters exactly as we saw it. But the way the SNW characters perceive it may be somewhat different. I think the intention is still that everything in TOS will happen for them, but there will be some trivial cosmetic changes and Khan will say "2046" instead of "1996".
It's interesting that Boimler didn't notice anything different, despite previous references to TOS (or TAS) Kirk and Spock. The timeline warps around his perceptions.
I don't view TOS as having been "erased" because it obviously happened and has been referenced multiple times in other shows.
TOS happened for those characters exactly as we saw it. But the way the SNW characters perceive it may be somewhat different. I think the intention is still that everything in TOS will happen for them, but there will be some trivial cosmetic changes and Khan will say "2046" instead of "1996".
It's interesting that Boimler didn't notice anything different, despite previous references to TOS (or TAS) Kirk and Spock. The timeline warps around his perceptions.
There is no chance stuff like massive wars and people's existence being moved up 50 or so years wouldn't have huge effects later. But they're having their cake and eating it too. The Eugenics Wars moved! But by TOS everything will be as it was. You know the last scene of the last episode will be Paul Wesley on the TOS bridge of the TOS Enterprise. After Picard's third season there's no way they won't do that.
I guess it's all just a TV show after all.
I guess it's all just a TV show after all.
Don't forget Bjo Trimble's Concordance!
There is no chance stuff like massive wars and people's existence being moved up 50 or so years wouldn't have huge effects later. But they're having their cake and eating it too. The Eugenics Wars moved! But by TOS everything will be as it was. You know the last scene of the last episode will be Paul Wesley on the TOS bridge of the TOS Enterprise. After Picard's third season there's no way they won't do that.
I guess it's all just a TV show after all.
Yep. "Time pushes back and events reinsert themselves" at a later date with different details but the cake will be made and consumed. Although the message, IMHO, is that by TOS everything will be mostly like it was. It will be interesting to see if they go back to full TOS or not.
Paramount has demarcated one ongoing alternate timeline, which they call "Kelvin." There is, going back to the original series, an assumed parallel universe in which "Mirror, Mirror" took place.
Everything else takes place in the same, single universe, where time itself contains a number of closed loops that we have seen.
Everything else takes place in the same, single universe, where time itself contains a number of closed loops that we have seen.
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The Mirror Universe is a parallel universe, not an alternate timeline. I don't know why people keep conflating the two.
TNG's "Parallels" calls out parallel quantum universes so it's just whichever universe we are following. Paramount is our Guardian of Forever and chooses whichever universe we should be watching
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Universe is what I meant, and I've edited it, thanks. I was drawing the distinction between something that happens to exist, uh, alongside another as distinct from branching off or looping.
"City On The Edge of Forever," "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow" represent closed time loops within "our" universe.
Temporal mechanicing is hard.
Yeah. The Mirror universe only requires reference to temporal matters as regards their acquisition of the Prime U.S.S. Defiant, which traveled both between universes and back a century or so in time.
Is there a difference?
Well, it's all gibberish, if that's what you mean...
If Borris Johnson and Winston Churchill switched jobs and times, seamlessly, everything would be exactly the same today.
yes, timelines share a common past at some point, parallel universes are always separate, but are mysteriously entwined.
I'm not sure there is a practical difference, possibly more one of perception than anything else. It's a bit like the distinction between a planet and a dwarf planet. Even the Mirror Universe might have a common point of congruence at some a point in the past, even if billions of years in the past. We are just conditioned to think of differences that we see.
Trek is so woolly on the distinction that I think it just from the perspective of the viewer. Someone who experiences the cause of the changes is in an alternate timeline. Someone plopped into a universe that is different is in a parallel universe.
It's fiction. There's no "practical." There's a clear conceptual difference between those two fictional notions. At no point is the existence of other universes or parallel universes contingent on a predecessor.
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