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Timeline in Paradise

Quantum

Captain
Captain
In the second season episode "Paradise" one of the villagers said they had been stranded on the planet ten years prior. I read on memory alpha that the close point in the Gamma Quardrant to Earth is 30,000 light years a way. Based on the ruff equivalent established on Voyager of 70,000 ly distance = 70 years travel would mean it would have taken them thiry years to reach that planet so that means the ship left 40 years ago. Also to note there ship didn't look anyware near as fast as the state of the art Voyager which may not have even been launched at the time of this eipsode.

So my questions are what is a Federation ship doing 30 years travel from Earth, and do you think this type of long distance deep space travel is common by civilians or Starfleet in the time period of the show?
 
Er...was it established that the colonists left from Earth? That's not mentioned in the plot summary on MA.

Based on the MA synopsis, it also appears the planet was -not- in the Gamma Quadrant.
 
DonIago's right, Paradise was set on a planet in the Alpha Quadrant, not the Gamma Quadrant.
 
The episode doesn't really define a quadrant. It only says our heroes are looking around for colony locations near the wormhole mouth - but which mouth, is left untold. The Alpha mouth makes more sense in retrospect, and avoids the problems the OP brought up.

One just wonders if anything ever came of this colonization effort. Until the very end of the show, it seems that the closest UFP planets remain far away from Bajor. Wouldn't it be politically convenient for the Feds to beat the drum for Alixus' colony here, to show everybody that the UFP is here to stay? Would new colonies be founded in the vicinity?

Perhaps the more interesting question is, if this ship left Earth and headed for rarely visited space, then crashed on this planet, and was chance met by officers from DS9 who were doing their "usual rounds" around Bajoran space...

...How come the runabout launched from that planet would first be spotted by the Romulans?

Romulans aren't supposed to travel outside their RNZ, not without permission anyway. Does this mean, then, that Alixus crashed the ship on a planet bordering on the RNZ, and then launched the heroes' runabout on a course that skirted the RNZ? And does it then follow that Bajor and DS9 would be particularly close to the RNZ?

It doesn't really look like that elsewhere in the show. When Romulans visit DS9, they seem to be coming from far away. When they sneakily support the Jem'Hadar in the Dominion War by allowing them to use Romulan territory, they seem to be doing so somewhere far away again, "behind the lines"...

Timo Saloniemi
 
^ Technically the Romulans aren't even allowed to travel within the neutral zone.

As for the Romulan ship, do we know no Romulan vessels were allowed in Federation space? Military vessels would be restricted obviously but what of civilian traffic, transports, freighters and the like? Given the Federation loves to be friends with everyone you would think they would be open to trade with the Romulans, so that five years after the Romulans exit their isolation a Romulan operated vessel isn't such a strange thing in Federation space.

Also, if the area was outside of Federation space then the Romulans could be wherever they please.
 
I could easily buy the idea that specific Romulan ships are allowed to travel outside Romulan space. It's just strange that this is never discussed. Romulan warships are regularly shown violating their RNZ rule, sometimes with Picard challenging them over that fact (say, "The Enemy"), sometimes without any related dialogue (say, "Tin Man"). I can understand Picard wouldn't bring up the RNZ violation point every time, when the Romulans are doing far worse violations, such as firing at our heroes. But I don't understand why the Romulans wouldn't at least sometimes bring up the point that some of their ships have legitimate reasons for being outside the RNZ...

I think "The Pegasus" is the only other episode where the presence of Romulans outside their own space raises zero eyebrows. Everywhere else they are supposed to be up to some mischief if they do that, and have to get special permission or exhibit superior firepower.

Also, if the area was outside of Federation space then the Romulans could be wherever they please.

Could they? In "Balance of Terror", Romulans were supposed to be isolated from the rest of the universe by the RNZ, surrounded from all sides. But in later shows, it does appear that they are able to sneak out as long as they don't try to sneak out in the direction of the UFP. The exact rule on this is unclear.

Timo Saloniemi
 
^ I beleive in many instances the Romulans where in neutral space. The idea that Romulans ship can't leave Romulan space doen't make a lot of sense to me.
 
It could go either way: it could be a case of North Korea, a nation isolated behind a demilitarized zone yet free to send commercial vessels to all the seven seas, or it could be a case of homicidal maniacs locked in a high security prison. Or perhaps losers of a war locked in a concentration camp and forgotten there.

Perhaps the terms of Romulan confinement were redefined some time after "Balance of Terror" to allow them to roam the galaxy again, as long as they didn't enter UFP territory?

Timo Saloniemi
 
I like the Star Charts interpretation, where the RNZ isn't a complete shell, more like a half-sphere absolutely forestalling RSE expansion and military movements, and apparently civilian movements, in the direction of the Federation.

I mean, if Romulan-flagged trade vessels can move freely in the Federation, they wouldn't have had to go to the trouble of salvaging those Vulcan cargo ships in Unification. However, it's a stupid plot point anyway, in pretty much every respect, so maybe it's best to just ignore that.
 
The Star Charts eggshell was indeed designed as a compromise between the "Balance of Terror" statement of complete Romulan encirclement and isolation, and the TNG reality of Romulan free movement. I assumed the RNZ was originally agreed to be solid, but the Feds only existed to one side of the eggshell (actually, three sides, since the known location of the real Gamma Hydra combined with some assumptions to necessitate this) and couldn't readily control the other side. So in practice the RNZ began to "leak" as soon as the Romulans regained their strength and started to expand again, and the UFP accepted this de facto state of affairs de jure at some point...

As for the "Unification" plot, I'd also rather keep it apart from all other arguments because it's a world of pain unto itself. But I like to think that it does make sense - only our heroes were too stupid to realize this.

I mean, what did the Romulans say they were doing? They said they were sending an invasion army to Vulcan. Isn't the logical conclusion then that this is exactly what they weren't doing? They are the villains; they tell the captured heroes X; they then let the heroes escape from the friggin' homeworld of villainy unscatched. Doesn't that more or less confirm that X=untrue?

There would be many reasons to send a peace envoy to Vulcan in old Vulcan ships, then destroy those ships.

1) Get rid of the peace envoy, in a politically expedient way. Romulans don't like peaceniks, yet they do have an infestation of those, thanks to Spock. So why not enlist Spock's help in massacring the peaceniks? And why not invite Starfleet to witness the massacre, and cheer?

2) Confuse the enemy. That's always a good thing. And noisy old Vulcan tubs are great at masking the presence of a large and advanced Romulan battlefleet under cloak.

3) Impress your cronies. By "aborting" an utterly audacious "invasion" of Vulcan, Romulans gain massively in prestige points among all UFP enemies - a welcome improvement in their image after all the recent times they had to withdraw after Picard exposed their plots.

Note that the RNZ never really featured in the plot of "Unification". Surely any ship coming through the Zone would be challenged, be it Romulan or seemingly Vulcan? But these ships weren't challenged, which suggests that they didn't come through the Zone; that the Zone allows many sorts of traffic, just not Romulan or Federation warships; or that the RNZ actually borders on Vulcan.

That latter option is actually pretty interesting. In STXI, a spatial anomaly at the Neutral Zone was associated with seismic activity on Vulcan, as per Chekov's shipwide announcement. It doesn't make any sense for Starfleet to make that association, unless the NZ (the RNZ?) and Vulcan are spatially close. And Romulans are estranged Vulcans - perhaps a chip that has not fallen all that far from the old block in spatial terms?

I doubt Romulan space would border on the Vulcan star system as such; many episodes contradict this. But it's perfectly possible that "Vulcan space" is a subdivision of the UFP, and encompasses old Vulcan territory from the time of ENT, mainly in the direction of Romulus. Quite possibly the UFP border that brushes against Romulan border where the Vulcan tubs crossed is in fact Vulcan border...

The Star Charts weren't drawn with this in mind, but they can sort of accommodate the idea. The ENT material in there was a bit ill conceived anyway, based on just the first season of the show. It wouldn't be difficult to interpret ENT so that Vulcan-associated locations indeed extend "northeast" from the homeworld of the logicians, to meet Romulan space.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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