this is something ive thought about. I know that jj abram's trek is set in an alternate timeline, due to the romulans coming back in time. What is the difference between that, and "Yesterday's Enterprise" where the timeline was altered by the enterprise-C? in that episode the prime timeline was messed up by that. so doesnt the same logic apply with the romulans going back in time? messing up the timeline? not creating an alternate timeline? or are they both alternate timelines? im probably thinking about this too hard. lol
timeline differences
- Thread starter indianatrekker26
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Same principle. They're both altered (new) timelines. There are many in Trek. Another big one IMO is in the movie FC. Once they go back to 2063, they changed everything. Upon returning, things are altered but not so drastically that the crew notices, not unlike in Yesterday's Enterprise. They believe that they've corrected whatever damage the Borg did but they didn't. They instead went back in time and changed events to what they they they should be. That whole story sets things up for ENT. I always thought it would've been cool if in NEM we saw an NX-01 displayed in the case of model ships in the OBS lounge. We know that Captain Archer's father Henry worked with Cochrane on the warp 5 engine that powers the NX-01. I believe it was Cochrane who suggested that the ship be named Enterprise as an homage to Picard and crew and their ship since they helped Zephram so much. That's why we never heard of the NX-01 Enterprise; it was probably called something else until the E-E went back in time and influenced its name.
Finally someone who has the same opinion about that.
And the NX-01 was indeed in the briefing room in Nemesis.
Didn't? nine billion borg gone.
Think it was Riker who said that it was possible that it was meant to be that way, they were the reason Cochrane made warp.
No it wasn't, Riker and Troi visited NX-01, in the last episode of ENT, from the Ent-D, so it existed well before FC. You just never heard about it because the show hadn't aired yet.
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Problem with that is that there is a referance to Archer in TNG which Enterprise retconned to be about Jonathan Archer. That being the planet Archer IV, mentioned coincidentally in Yesterday's Enterprise. Twice, in fact. First, in the alternate timeline Riker speaks of a victory against the Klingons at Archer IV, again in the prime timeline when Picard orders Wesley to set course there.
I don't accept retconning. Which is why I don't count Enterprise as canon. It's shoved in like the Star Wars prequels, causing unneccessary chaos. I want a Star Trek universe that follows the path shown in the Official Star Trek Chronology. That means no NX-01 and Captain Robert April as first Captain of the Enterprise.
And since the Prime timeline isn't running anymore and since Enterprise is nicely filled with chaotic time travel stuff and people from the future stating many times "This shouldn't have happened", I can freely pretend it never happened.
And since the Prime timeline isn't running anymore and since Enterprise is nicely filled with chaotic time travel stuff and people from the future stating many times "This shouldn't have happened", I can freely pretend it never happened.
Which does not, in fact, exist.
But once there are changes I have one question. What if the new timeline doesn't unfold exacly as the old one did and there was no reason for the Enterprise-E of the new timeline to go back in time? Wouldn't the Enterprise-E meet up with their counterparts when they go forward in the new timeline?
That's why it is simpler for us to use the single timeline that is usually promoted in Trek.
That timeline was revisited in the recent TNG novel Q&A.
Picard somehow survived the attack and a Sovereign Class USS Enterprise was still built. However, the Federation had lost the war and he was a prisoner aboard his own ship.
If you ignore Enterprise, it mostly does.
In YESTERDAY'S ENTERPRISE, at the end it's suggested Guinan has, on some level, an awareness of what's happened, and out of the blue asks Geordi to tell her about Tasha Yar.
We saw at the start of the episode that the Enterprise D's bridge and its crew were altered by the arrival of Enterprise C (and the timeline thus being altered).
These two events in themselves are in step with earlier Trek, such as CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER, which show that in the TREK universe, history CAN be changed, and a single timeline is thus altered.
A new separate timeline is NOT created.
If that were the case, then Kirk and the others in CITY never actually returned to their Enterprise, but rather an Enterprise in a newly created third timeline. I do not accept this idea, and you'd have expected Spock to have said something if it were the case.
No.
In the TREK universe, history can be changed and even restored, but new timelines are NOT created.
This means one of two things-
1) The original timeline HAS indeed been overwritted by the events in JJ Trek, or
2) JJ Trek is a parallel universe to the original, which has now had its past altered. Were Spock and Nero from the original Trek universe we know, or were they from the JJ Trek universe? I dunno.
I like to think it's the latter, so that not only does the original universe remain in place, the JJ-verse may even have "our" Spock in it (possibly unaware he's in the wrong universe, since differences could be due to the changes 25 years prior to his arrival).
We saw at the start of the episode that the Enterprise D's bridge and its crew were altered by the arrival of Enterprise C (and the timeline thus being altered).
These two events in themselves are in step with earlier Trek, such as CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER, which show that in the TREK universe, history CAN be changed, and a single timeline is thus altered.
A new separate timeline is NOT created.
If that were the case, then Kirk and the others in CITY never actually returned to their Enterprise, but rather an Enterprise in a newly created third timeline. I do not accept this idea, and you'd have expected Spock to have said something if it were the case.
No.
In the TREK universe, history can be changed and even restored, but new timelines are NOT created.
This means one of two things-
1) The original timeline HAS indeed been overwritted by the events in JJ Trek, or
2) JJ Trek is a parallel universe to the original, which has now had its past altered. Were Spock and Nero from the original Trek universe we know, or were they from the JJ Trek universe? I dunno.
I like to think it's the latter, so that not only does the original universe remain in place, the JJ-verse may even have "our" Spock in it (possibly unaware he's in the wrong universe, since differences could be due to the changes 25 years prior to his arrival).
> In the TREK universe, history can be changed and even restored, but new timelines are NOT created.
Incorrect. TNG: Parallels show that Quantum Mechanics is Canon in Star Trek.
- Up until Stardate 2233.04, all events in the Trek universe as established on screen are precisely the same.
- At 2233.04, the Narada arrives, immediately spawning the alternate reality.
- BOTH timelines (realities) exist in Parallel.
- Enterprise was on-screen, live-action Trek, and is thus Canon.
It's that simple folks. Deal with it :-)
Incorrect. TNG: Parallels show that Quantum Mechanics is Canon in Star Trek.
- Up until Stardate 2233.04, all events in the Trek universe as established on screen are precisely the same.
- At 2233.04, the Narada arrives, immediately spawning the alternate reality.
- BOTH timelines (realities) exist in Parallel.
- Enterprise was on-screen, live-action Trek, and is thus Canon.
It's that simple folks. Deal with it :-)
If tjhe Chronology was written today or any time after September 26, 2001 Enterprise would be part of it. Thats the way "history" in serial fiction works.
Looking my copy of the Star Trek Chronology (1993) there's a big gap from 2123 to 2158. More than enough room for Enterprise.
Hm... let's see. If someone complains "This contradicts canon", they always say "canon is sooo overrated, shut up!", and if someone compaints "I don't want to accept this", they always say "it's canon, shut up!"
The altered timeline seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise" was the Prime Timeline, altered by the disappearance of the U.S.S. Enterprise-C.
The timeline seen in Star Trek (2009) is an alternate timeline created by the Narada's temporal incursion that coexists alongside the unaltered timeline.
And, yes, Star Trek has allowed for both forms of alternate timelines to exist in the past. Case in point: "Parallels."
No, but "canon" is a meaningless label.
"Canon" only refers to the body of works that non-canonical bodies of work must be consistent with.
In other words:
Future canon can contradict established canon, but future non-canon must be consistent with established canon.
In other words -- it's a meaningless label, since canon can contradict itself.
So what is the difference? The Enterprice C went forward in time, altering the Prime Timeline. The Narada went back in time, so why would it not just alter the Prime timeline in the same way? I just figured now, with this logic from parallels, that the Enterprise C going back in time created an alternate timeline, like the narada did. That neither case involves the Prime timeline.
If every contradiction in Star Trek implied a different "universe", we'd pretty much have to consider every season of every show to be its own distinct entity.
The beginning of that episode never made any sense, really. If the disruption began in the past, the intervening 50 years of familiar history should never have happened in the first place. The Enterprise-D that was at war with the Klingons had to send the Enterprise-C back in time BEFORE TNG as we know it could have occurred. Logically, the "regular" timeline is actually the altered one, and was not created until the Enterprise-C was sent back in time.
Given that, it makes as much sense as anything else to view the opening as our viewpoint shifting between two independent timelines than to view it as the timeline itself changing.
Guinan's awareness is kind of vague. Is she aware that the timeline has shifted, or is she occasionally aware of what's happening in other timelines around her? Hard to say.
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